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drlodge wrote:I also think the NHS need to do a better job of setting expectations on what its obligations are and are not e.g. people need to take some responsibility for their own health (obesity, smoking, alcohol related illnesses) and not just expect the state to. Prevention is better than cure as my Mum would say.
Yes prevention is better than the cure - isn't that what they're trying to do though? Stop people getting into such a sorry state they have to use the NHS all the time (for their expensive diabetes or liver failure or whatever).0 -
NHS, education, defence and benefits are always areas that seem to define political leanings. Spend more leftie, spend less or same but better spent then you're right wing. Especially NHS, It's what the left sees as a holy cow. It must succeed no matter how much it costs.
Simply put we're seeing our lifestyle habits cost more than we can afford. That leads into a decision or more that will need to be made. Charge lifestyle related conditions on first referral. That's on top of any tax paid to maintain that lifestyle. Is that going to happen?
Seriously I've heard that Sweden has a good idea. If you spend money on a healthy activity you get the cost back. Something along those lines. I didn't catch the details but we've friends who work in.Sweden and they were surprised they got the cost of their gym membership back in their pay packet. It was in a state funded organization so could just be public sector. Still I'd have thought some scheme like that with performance related element could save in the NHS and as a result the state coffers money. Say weight drop and attendance.
Personally the people who told me that are you all fairly healthy and active people. Not really much savings from them because they'd pay for their fitness activities anyway. I'm active but prefer to save my money but I'd like to go to the gym regularly. If there was some benefit due to claiming against tax (all or at least half) then I'd join a gym. I'm getting towards the age things go wrong so perhaps it'll pay for the state if they did that.
Labour, the party that just keeps giving, is still having trouble organizing a pi$$up in a party conference. They've still got no security for the conference. It's in Liverpool and no security company will touch it except one that would lead to low turn out due to picketing of the conference by the GMB union,
Merseyside police said they couldn't do it I think the local news said. G4s said it would take a year for them to organize it so 4 weeks rules them out.
Add to that their MP for Barrow, in the north west BTW, has openly said the leadership are.basically incompetent.
Oh how the Labour party loves to give. Ammunition for the Tories. Actually, Stevo might be able to answer this, is it getting to the stage where it's like shooting fish in a barrel? What.I mean is Labour party in a level of mess that it's now really bad form to take the Mick out of them? Putting the boot in the when they're down and being counted out?
Seriously should we be easing up on them? Give.them a sporting chance? Over to you Stevo.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:NHS, education, defence and benefits are always areas that seem to define political leanings. Spend more leftie, spend less or same but better spent then you're right wing. Especially NHS, It's what the left sees as a holy cow. It must succeed no matter how much it costs.
Simply put we're seeing our lifestyle habits cost more than we can afford. That leads into a decision or more that will need to be made. Charge lifestyle related conditions on first referral. That's on top of any tax paid to maintain that lifestyle. Is that going to happen?.
why does spending have to be decided on political leanings? surely looking after the sick is a duty for all Governments?
next time you get knocked off your bike and wait in an ambulance for 8 hours, how would u like it if someone said, "well it was his life style, should of been down the gym, not out with the cars"
another example would be one of your parents having a stroke "well she lived too long anyway, 82 is far too old, shame she died on a trolley, laying in her own shitte"
Steve0s graph show spending is up, very true but its not keeping up with demand and cuts to social care mean a greater reliance on GP and hospital services, as i have experienced with my own relatives recently, relative forced to stay in hospital, no social care available, where is the "same or better spend" there ?
i think i and others called for more curbs on sugary food and alcohol a while back, shot down as not allowing personal freedom etc cant have it both ways.0 -
I almost feel sorry for them but the job isn't done yet. The party is still in one piece and they haven't been wiped out at the polls. Also they are still deluded that they are electable and they need a dose of reality. I reckon we can have a lot of fun until that happens :twisted:Tangled Metal wrote:Labour, the party that just keeps giving, is still having trouble organizing a pi$$up in a party conference. They've still got no security for the conference. It's in Liverpool and no security company will touch it except one that would lead to low turn out due to picketing of the conference by the GMB union,
Merseyside police said they couldn't do it I think the local news said. G4s said it would take a year for them to organize it so 4 weeks rules them out.
Add to that their MP for Barrow, in the north west BTW, has openly said the leadership are.basically incompetent.
Oh how the Labour party loves to give. Ammunition for the Tories. Actually, Stevo might be able to answer this, is it getting to the stage where it's like shooting fish in a barrel? What.I mean is Labour party in a level of mess that it's now really bad form to take the Mick out of them? Putting the boot in the when they're down and being counted out?
Seriously should we be easing up on them? Give.them a sporting chance? Over to you Stevo.
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
A security firm has been found to cover the Labour Party conference, OCS. A company using zero hour contracts.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -ocs-group
It appears that Labour's anti Israel stance trumps their stance on their perceived injustice in this country.0 -
It sounds like you look forward to a one party state. Corbyn is utterly pathetic but the lack of a credible opposition is bad for the country and inevitably the government will abuse its power, because that's what unchallenged governments always do.
A recent example of this was Theresa May's unwillingness to tighten laws on junk food - which will inevitably impact on people's lives, the NHS, etc. At the time, Corbyn was too busy playing stupid student politics.
Politics is not like a game of football where after a win you sneer and gloat at the losing team, like fans in the terraces, ffs. Countries that have a high level of consensus on issues work best; the ideological polarity that exists between the two major parties right now is bad for us all. You may not like those who don't vote Tory but try to grasp why they might not vote Tory
e.g. flat line wages since 2010; vast wage inequalities; graduate debt and no training opportunities; senior Tories lied to us about Brexit; tens of billions in tax avoidance not vigorously pursued; etc etc etc.0 -
If Labour weren't so far to the left this ideological polarity you mentioned wouldn't exist. So trashing the current Labour party will help get the consensus that you wantAlain Quay wrote:It sounds like you look forward to a one party state. Corbyn is utterly pathetic but the lack of a credible opposition is bad for the country and inevitably the government will abuse its power, because that's what unchallenged governments always do.
A recent example of this was Theresa May's unwillingness to tighten laws on junk food - which will inevitably impact on people's lives, the NHS, etc. At the time, Corbyn was too busy playing stupid student politics.
Politics is not like a game of football where after a win you sneer and gloat at the losing team, like fans in the terraces, ffs. Countries that have a high level of consensus on issues work best; the ideological polarity that exists between the two major parties right now is bad for us all. You may not like those who don't vote Tory but try to grasp why they might not vote Tory
e.g. flat line wages since 2010; vast wage inequalities; graduate debt and no training opportunities; senior Tories lied to us about Brexit; tens of billions in tax avoidance not vigorously pursued; etc etc etc.
As for some of the claims in your last paragraph, a lot of those are what I invented the term 'leftiebollox' for."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Alain Quay wrote:It sounds like you look forward to a one party state. Corbyn is utterly pathetic but the lack of a credible opposition is bad for the country and inevitably the government will abuse its power, because that's what unchallenged governments always do.
A recent example of this was Theresa May's unwillingness to tighten laws on junk food - which will inevitably impact on people's lives, the NHS, etc. At the time, Corbyn was too busy playing stupid student politics.
Politics is not like a game of football where after a win you sneer and gloat at the losing team, like fans in the terraces, ffs. Countries that have a high level of consensus on issues work best; the ideological polarity that exists between the two major parties right now is bad for us all. You may not like those who don't vote Tory but try to grasp why they might not vote Tory
e.g. flat line wages since 2010; vast wage inequalities; graduate debt and no training opportunities; senior Tories lied to us about Brexit; tens of billions in tax avoidance not vigorously pursued; etc etc etc.
No interest in a one party state. Just want to keep a dangerous far left party away from power.0 -
We're acting in the national interest. Hence the thread titleBallysmate wrote:No interest in a one party state. Just want to keep a dangerous far left party away from power. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm sure they will try to find a contrived problem with the security firms performance at the conference, a bit like Jezza pretending he couldn't find a seat on a privately run train service."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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After the debacle of traingate you would have thought Labour would be happy to wait for it to blow over, but oh no, not this lot. Haven't got the sense to stop digging.
Their latest offering is to suggest that Branson be stripped of his knighthood for daring to point out that that lying bastard Corbyn is in fact, a lying bastard.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -traingate0 -
I wonder who John 'Chairman Mao' McDonnell thinks should judge whether someone is 'acting in the spirit of our country'? Would this be a kangaroo court with some morally worthy lefties sitting in judgment?
And would they also judge in the same light those whose policies are so rabidly anti business that they would drive business and investment off shore and massively reduce tax revenues? Hope they look in the mirror from time to time "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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And if they weren't ready then...Ballysmate wrote:
Although Balls at least has a pretty good description of Corbyn's vision for Britain as a "leftist utopian fantasy, devoid of connection to the reality of people's lives.""I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Balls sounds like he'd have made a better Labour leader than Miliband. What if he'd won back then? I think he's more strategic and possibly have beaten Cameron. Imagine, no Brexit but a Balls up in number 10! Would he have made a good Labour pm?0
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Tangled Metal wrote:Balls sounds like he'd have made a better Labour leader than Miliband. What if he'd won back then? I think he's more strategic and possibly have beaten Cameron. Imagine, no Brexit but a Balls up in number 10! Would he have made a good Labour pm?
Lots of people sound like they'd have made a good leader after they realise what mistakes they were making at the time.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:As for some of the claims in your last paragraph, a lot of those are what I invented the term 'leftiebollox' for.
You need to do more than miss out the space between two words to call it a term. At least one that you shouldn't be embarrassed about claiming to be the origin of. Faster than a tent.......0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
One of the issues for the NHS is that it is a victim of it's own success historically. We're all now living longer due to advances in medicine and tech, and subsequently finding more horrible, deteriating conditions to die of. The reality is that the human body can only be sustained for a finite time before it wears down, we just keep on extending this and becoming weaker0
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Jez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
I'd like to claim that I invented RightyShite please...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:Jez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
I'd like to claim that I invented RightyShite please...
No, this doesn't work. Only countries ruled by left wing governments like George Bush's USA were hit by the GLOBAL recession and it was entirely their own making.0 -
morstar wrote:ddraver wrote:Jez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
I'd like to claim that I invented RightyShite please...
No, this doesn't work. Only countries ruled by left wing governments like George Bush's USA were hit by the GLOBAL recession and it was entirely their own making.
Fascinating to see these devastating responses on the subject of the 2009 crisis... to a post that was talking about events that happened in the 70s. And entirely relevantly, as that was the last time we actually had a left-wing government.0 -
I listened to a very interesting podcast "Off Message" where they were interviewing Tony Blair. Titled "Centrism may be dead", well worth a listen. I wasn't a fan of TB but on hearing it I had a little more respect for him.WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
Find me on Strava0 -
bompington wrote:morstar wrote:ddraver wrote:Jez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
I'd like to claim that I invented RightyShite please...
No, this doesn't work. Only countries ruled by left wing governments like George Bush's USA were hit by the GLOBAL recession and it was entirely their own making.
Fascinating to see these devastating responses on the subject of the 2009 crisis... to a post that was talking about events that happened in the 70s. And entirely relevantly, as that was the last time we actually had a left-wing government.
See bit in bold...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Off you go then. You've just got to find someone saying thatJez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
Although in any event it doesn't mean that Labour weren't wasting our money while they were in charge. In fact, they admitted it publically:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/13/andy-burnham-apologises-labour-overspending
It's in the Guardian so it must be true."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
As Bompington said, what are your thoughts on the mess left by Labour in the late 70's?morstar wrote:ddraver wrote:Jez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
I'd like to claim that I invented RightyShite please...
No, this doesn't work. Only countries ruled by left wing governments like George Bush's USA were hit by the GLOBAL recession and it was entirely their own making."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I raised the point about the mess left by Labour in the 70's so stop changing the subject and give us your thoughts on strikes, 25% inflation and the IMF loan we needed...Jez mon wrote:bompington wrote:morstar wrote:ddraver wrote:Jez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
I'd like to claim that I invented RightyShite please...
No, this doesn't work. Only countries ruled by left wing governments like George Bush's USA were hit by the GLOBAL recession and it was entirely their own making.
Fascinating to see these devastating responses on the subject of the 2009 crisis... to a post that was talking about events that happened in the 70s. And entirely relevantly, as that was the last time we actually had a left-wing government.
See bit in bold..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Bloody pedantRolf F wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:As for some of the claims in your last paragraph, a lot of those are what I invented the term 'leftiebollox' for.
You need to do more than miss out the space between two words to call it a term. At least one that you shouldn't be embarrassed about claiming to be the origin of. I still claim it as my own given I've not seen it used before I made it up. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Off you go then. You've just got to find someone saying thatJez mon wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But just remember that the last Labour administration was not far left and look at the financial mess they left. The Labour govt before that had inflation at 25%, strikes crippling the country and us going cap in hand to the IMF. Better safe than sorry
Maybe we can use the term Rightiebollox to describe anyone who pins the sub-prime mortgage crisis and it's effect on the UK PLC squarely on the Labour Government...
Although in any event it doesn't mean that Labour weren't wasting our money while they were in charge. In fact, they admitted it publically:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/13/andy-burnham-apologises-labour-overspending
It's in the Guardian so it must be true.
"They" haven't said so publicly, a labour politician has come out and said that whilst canvasing for the leadership election, a different labour politician said:
“We have to take on this idea from the Tories that somehow the deficit caused the financial crisis when the financial crisis caused the deficit. We do not need to swallow Tory myths about what happened in the last Labour government.”
What the party line is on the matter, is entirely unclear!
At the end of the day, the deficit new labour were running pre crash was tiny compared to post crash. Politicians/people could have a grown up discussion about what level of deficit is sensible, and whether we can mitigate the effects of financial crashes, but it's far easier to just keep repeating "labour spent too much" until it becomes true in the eyes of everyone. The statistics suggest that the thatcher/major government where equally happy to keep a deficit going.
You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
The point is that the economy was booming - your average club treasurer could easily have run a surplus at that time. Labour deliberately spent money like water in pursuit of Statist goals - turning everyone into a client of the state.Jez mon wrote:At the end of the day, the deficit new labour were running pre crash was tiny compared to post crash.0
