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Well put finchy. This thread is living prooffinchy wrote:mamba80 wrote:No, you are so wrong, i want the UK to be a great place to live and work, for everyone,
Come on now mamba, haven't you been on here long enough to know that anyone who disagrees with Stevo must have something wrong with them?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Well you could have fooled.me...mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But Bally beat me to it with the rather obvious retort. It does sometimes seem that the left wing mentality seems to be 'we want the UK to suffer and do badly as then we can blame those evil tories'.
No, you are so wrong, i want the UK to be a great place to live and work, for everyone, and though the Tory problems are in some senses funny, they are also very harmful to the UK and very harmful to the tories themselves and unlike you, i think having vibrant political parties in the UK, is good for the country and democracy.
the current tories have, according to IDS, been takin money from non tory voters (the poor and disabled) and giving it to tory voters (better off) thats wrong and evil, do i want that to happen? no way, i ve been on the receiving end of poverty.
Bally, you ve been an enthusiastic poster on here (when you think labour have been a shambles) even fairly recently!!!"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
And your point is what, exactly?Pinno wrote:finchy wrote:Pinno wrote:finchy wrote:mamba80 wrote:No, you are so wrong, i want the UK to be a great place to live and work, for everyone,
Come on now mamba, haven't you been on here long enough to know that anyone who disagrees with Stevo must have something wrong with them?
You must SHOW figures or give evidence.That's the bottom line.
However, when you do "stats can prove or disprove anything".
And we must never, ever try to learn lessons from other countries. That is tantamount to treason. And all other countries are socialist hellholes anyway.
Global Capitalism has nothing to answer for.
Materialism is good - just have a look at all the stuff you can have because of it.
Any examples of global corporations polluting, exploiting, damaging the environment are just 'abusers of the system'.
Monaco is Nirvana. The IoM, Jersey and Guernsey generate so much cash*..., it's great for the economy.
If you live up North, you can do some training, get on your bike, cycle south and make a fortune - "I did". In fact, there shouldn't be a 'North' except for sheep and mountain bike trails. Anyone who lives there and is unemployed is just too stupid and stubborn to move and deserve everything they get.
*... they can pay f*cking tax. Although, as we have found out, great for 'Holding Companies' who are registered in Holland and superb for avoiding corporation tax..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
"The Right see plots everywhere and will hyperventilate at the drop of a chapati. The Left, however, will immediately accuse anyone who raises immigration as an issue as 'playing the race card' - as the Government has on several occasions over the past decade. Both sides need to grow up"
I've said before that a proper debate on immigration was avoided lest anyone be deemed to be a racist which would be political death. Gordon Brown labelled a lifelong Labour supporter a bigoted woman just for mentioning it.0 -
Pinno wrote:Ballysmate wrote:mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
But...tories'.
No....
Bally, you ve been an enthusiastic poster on here (when you think labour have been a shambles) even fairly recently!!!
Quite right. Past tense. 2 posts in the last 7 pages I think.(Not including the one above) A truly miserable cop out and not supporting your Tory mate, leaving him to suffer at the hands of Trotsky pigs
FTFY
Yeah, I could have joined in the discussion of what constitutes a neo con, neo lib or whatever. Or argue who had answered/avoided which questions, but I had some wet paint that needed watching.
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Ballysmate wrote:"The Right see plots everywhere and will hyperventilate at the drop of a chapati. The Left, however, will immediately accuse anyone who raises immigration as an issue as 'playing the race card' - as the Government has on several occasions over the past decade. Both sides need to grow up"
I've said before that a proper debate on immigration was avoided lest anyone be deemed to be a racist which would be political death. Gordon Brown labelled a lifelong Labour supporter a bigoted woman just for mentioning it.
I think that's partly true, but on the other hand, certain elements of the right, especially in the media, have resorted to very unpleasant stereotyping and scapegoating of immigrants. I've got nothing against people discussing immigration, but I hate seeing people demonising immigrants. Both sides have contributed to making it a toxic issue.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
And your point is what, exactly?Pinno wrote:finchy wrote:Pinno wrote:finchy wrote:mamba80 wrote:No, you are so wrong, i want the UK to be a great place to live and work, for everyone,
Come on now mamba, haven't you been on here long enough to know that anyone who disagrees with Stevo must have something wrong with them?
You must SHOW figures or give evidence.That's the bottom line.
However, when you do "stats can prove or disprove anything".
And we must never, ever try to learn lessons from other countries. That is tantamount to treason. And all other countries are socialist hellholes anyway.
Global Capitalism has nothing to answer for.
Materialism is good - just have a look at all the stuff you can have because of it.
Any examples of global corporations polluting, exploiting, damaging the environment are just 'abusers of the system'.
Monaco is Nirvana. The IoM, Jersey and Guernsey generate so much cash*..., it's great for the economy.
If you live up North, you can do some training, get on your bike, cycle south and make a fortune - "I did". In fact, there shouldn't be a 'North' except for sheep and mountain bike trails. Anyone who lives there and is unemployed is just too stupid and stubborn to move and deserve everything they get.
*... they can pay f*cking tax. Although, as we have found out, great for 'Holding Companies' who are registered in Holland and superb for avoiding corporation tax...
That my assertions are correct?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Well that's as clear as day now...Pinno wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
And your point is what, exactly?Pinno wrote:finchy wrote:Pinno wrote:finchy wrote:mamba80 wrote:No, you are so wrong, i want the UK to be a great place to live and work, for everyone,
Come on now mamba, haven't you been on here long enough to know that anyone who disagrees with Stevo must have something wrong with them?
You must SHOW figures or give evidence.That's the bottom line.
However, when you do "stats can prove or disprove anything".
And we must never, ever try to learn lessons from other countries. That is tantamount to treason. And all other countries are socialist hellholes anyway.
Global Capitalism has nothing to answer for.
Materialism is good - just have a look at all the stuff you can have because of it.
Any examples of global corporations polluting, exploiting, damaging the environment are just 'abusers of the system'.
Monaco is Nirvana. The IoM, Jersey and Guernsey generate so much cash*..., it's great for the economy.
If you live up North, you can do some training, get on your bike, cycle south and make a fortune - "I did". In fact, there shouldn't be a 'North' except for sheep and mountain bike trails. Anyone who lives there and is unemployed is just too stupid and stubborn to move and deserve everything they get.
*... they can pay f*cking tax. Although, as we have found out, great for 'Holding Companies' who are registered in Holland and superb for avoiding corporation tax...
That my assertions are correct?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Stevo 666 wrote:
Or a man who by his own admission is being persuaded to vote contrary to what he believes to be in the best interests of the country.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
well, one year in and the Tories are tearing themselves and their country to pieces, will continue way after the EU vote, so we ll have to see.
but given what a shambles Osbournes budget has been, is it true he is hiding in the caves of ToraBora??? 2020 isnt looking so clear cut is it?
and all this has come about because of Camerons stupidity in offering an EU vote.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Or a man who by his own admission is being persuaded to vote contrary to what he believes to be in the best interests of the country.
eh? i m voting IN, yes with some reservations but i do believe its in our best interests BUT with terror attacks in Brussels now and trouble in toryland, its likely we ll vote to leave.0 -
Compared to the long term, fundamental damage Labour have managed to inflict on themselves by installing a far left Trotskyite faction in charge of what was once a mainstream political party (with a bit of help from memamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
well, one year in and the Tories are tearing themselves and their country to pieces, will continue way after the EU vote, so we ll have to see.
but given what a shambles Osbournes budget has been, is it true he is hiding in the caves of ToraBora??? 2020 isnt looking so clear cut is it?
and all this has come about because of Camerons stupidity in offering an EU vote. ), the Tory EU in-fighting is not in the same league.
As for your view on the budget, sounds like you are just parrotting Corbyn. The main political noise is around one single issue that will no doubt be resolved and forgotten well before any GE."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:Compared to the long term, fundamental damage Labour have managed to inflict on themselves by installing a far left Trotskyite faction in charge of what was once a mainstream political party (with a bit of help from me ), the Tory EU in-fighting is not in the same league.
As for your view on the budget, sounds like you are just parrotting Corbyn. The main political noise is around one single issue that will no doubt be resolved and forgotten well before any GE.
whatever Corbyn and Labours problems they are not in power and are therefore a side show, the markets and credit agencies are not looking at what they have to say.
the Tories are in power and Osbourn has just presented THE budget and its been a a complete mess, IDS has resigned, accusing the party of penalising the poor and disabled voters, DC has just announced an about turn that would not be out of place on the parade ground and has a left a £4.5 billion black hole in their financial plans..... this has nothing to do with what Corbyn has to say.
whether it ll be forgotten demands on the result of the EU vote0 -
mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:Compared to the long term, fundamental damage Labour have managed to inflict on themselves by installing a far left Trotskyite faction in charge of what was once a mainstream political party (with a bit of help from me ), the Tory EU in-fighting is not in the same league.
As for your view on the budget, sounds like you are just parrotting Corbyn. The main political noise is around one single issue that will no doubt be resolved and forgotten well before any GE.
whatever Corbyn and Labours problems they are not in power and are therefore a side show, the markets and credit agencies are not looking at what they have to say.
the Tories are in power and Osbourn has just presented THE budget and its been a a complete mess, IDS has resigned, accusing the party of penalising the poor and disabled voters, DC has just announced an about turn that would not be out of place on the parade ground and has a left a £4.5 billion black hole in their financial plans..... this has nothing to do with what Corbyn has to say.
whether it ll be forgotten demands on the result of the EU vote
In what way?0 -
To be clear, Corbyn is not a "Trotskyite" in that he does not believe in constant revolution and nor is he an anarcho-syndicalist.0
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For the benefit of me and others:
Anarcho-syndicalism (also referred to as revolutionary syndicalism[1]) is a theory of anarchism which views revolutionary industrial unionism or syndicalism as a method for workers in capitalist society to gain control of an economy and use that control to influence broader society. Syndicalists consider their economic theories a strategy for facilitating worker self-activity and as an alternative co-operative economic system with democratic values and production centered on meeting human needs.
The basic principles of anarcho-syndicalism are solidarity, direct action (action undertaken without the intervention of third parties such as politicians, bureaucrats and arbitrators) and direct democracy, or workers' self-management. The end goal of anarcho-syndicalism is to abolish the wage system, regarding it as wage slavery. Anarcho-syndicalist theory therefore generally focuses on the labor movement.[2]
Anarcho-syndicalists view the primary purpose of the state as being the defence of private property, and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, denying most of its denizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which springs from it.[3] In contrast with other bodies of thought, particularly with Marxism–Leninism, anarcho-syndicalists deny that there can be any kind of workers' state, or a state which acts in the interests of workers, as opposed to those of the powerful, and posit that any state with the intention of empowering the workers will inevitably work to empower itself or the existing elite at the expense of the workers. Reflecting the anarchist philosophy from which it draws its primary inspiration, anarcho-syndicalism holds to the idea that power corrupts.[3]seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Another strike planned by tube drivers. Cause is cited as ageing trains and a hostile management :roll:
Well bring in some new driverless trains then - problem solved.
Strike starts 9pm Wed for 24 hours. Tags on nicely to Easter weekend.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... s-walk-out0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Tags on nicely to Easter weekend.
odd that....
The trains ARE old on that line, but abusing your monopoly position and holding the public hostage every time you don't get your own way, then issuing press releases blaming "management" for everything is just taking the p1ss.
The Unions blame "inept management". TFL ("management") blame public mugging self interested unions. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but the constant self interest from both sides will ultimately wreck the whole thing. British Leyland anyone?CS7
Surrey Hills
What's a Zwift?0 -
Ballysmate wrote:Another strike planned by tube drivers. Cause is cited as ageing trains and a hostile management :roll:
Well bring in some new driverless trains then - problem solved.
Strike starts 9pm Wed for 24 hours. Tags on nicely to Easter weekend.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... s-walk-out
thought you d given up on this thread as its "tedious" ? another broken Tory promise 0 -
Rest assured that when there are more pages of arguing who answered/failed to answer questions or what constitutes a political label, I will take another sabbatical.0
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Good point, let's get back to some good old fashioned leftie bashingBallysmate wrote:Rest assured that when there are more pages of arguing who answered/failed to answer questions or what constitutes a political label, I will take another sabbatical. Won't be long before the technically non-Trotskyite but undeniably hard left Mr. Corbyn puts his foot in it again... "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That's about 0.5% of total annual govt spending fyi. And how big do you reckon the 'hole' in the budget would be if JC and his leftie chums were in power and actually doing the budget themselves? :roll:mamba80 wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:Compared to the long term, fundamental damage Labour have managed to inflict on themselves by installing a far left Trotskyite faction in charge of what was once a mainstream political party (with a bit of help from me ), the Tory EU in-fighting is not in the same league.
As for your view on the budget, sounds like you are just parrotting Corbyn. The main political noise is around one single issue that will no doubt be resolved and forgotten well before any GE.
whatever Corbyn and Labours problems they are not in power and are therefore a side show, the markets and credit agencies are not looking at what they have to say.
the Tories are in power and Osbourn has just presented THE budget and its been a a complete mess, IDS has resigned, accusing the party of penalising the poor and disabled voters, DC has just announced an about turn that would not be out of place on the parade ground and has a left a £4.5 billion black hole in their financial plans..... this has nothing to do with what Corbyn has to say.
whether it ll be forgotten demands on the result of the EU vote
Let's not forget that the total national debt is the cumulative effect over time of budget holes less budget surpluses - which brings us neatly back to Labour..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Bit reminiscent of Wolfie Smith and his list.
Come the revolution, brothers... er.. and sisters.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... y-document0 -
It pretty tells us what we already knew, that Labour is a deeply divided party run by a minority faction that does not have the active support of the majority of Labour MPs.Ballysmate wrote:Bit reminiscent of Wolfie Smith and his list.
Come the revolution, brothers... er.. and sisters.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... y-document
I reckon it is mainly the presence of Corbyn's unoffical enforcers aka 'Momentum' and the consequent fear of deselection for more moderate Labour MP's that is keeping it from being open warfare. For the time being.
Hopefully JC and his mates will hang on in there until 2020
Although if he doesn't make it that far, the fun doesn't stop there as I'll get to vote again "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
At the moment Cameron is more likely to step down first as leader then Corbyn.
If he loses the referendum.0 -
If he did, it would be all the more important for Corbyn to stay.Rick Chasey wrote:At the moment Cameron is more likely to step down first as leader then Corbyn.
If he loses the referendum."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
rather apt on Good friday, judas of Islington?
but i suspect most people are more concerned about a Tory government that is asleep on the job with this and so many of the nations issues.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-358920060
