The big four and the Tour

245

Comments

  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    The issue for Quintana may be that with Murs & time bonuses early on he may not even be the highest ranked rider from his team on GC after week 1 - regardless of what people think of Valverde he's a pretty smart racer and any statements beforehand about supporting NQ at the expense of his own chances may go out the window if he gets a sniff.
    He's currently the world no.1 ranked rider, for whatever value you place on the UCI rankings, but is certainly the best all-rounder currently.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,541
    Crozza wrote:
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Would be nice to see all the profiles without having to click on every stage.

    like this?

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/t ... 015-140386

    Yes. Thanks for that.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    I don't think Nibali can be discounted if he is on the same form as last year, and being supported by 8 other superhumans.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    The thing is it's an easy Tour de France. No TT and only 2 mountain finishes which are challenging (plateau de Beille and Alpe d'Huez... the other mountain stages are too easy to yield big gaps. Even the usual monumental Pyrenean stage is watered down and frankly amateurish... used to be 4-5 mountains, it's down to 3. You can take more seconds up the mur de Huy than on the all pyrenees

    Someone might well win the Tour on the cobbles again
    left the forum March 2023
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Good points Ugo - and now Boom will be possibly be in Nibali's support team he's got even more potential firepower on the cobbles, to go with Fuglsang who did a steller job for him last time.
    Froome has pretty much said he doesn't like or is even scared of the cobbles.
    Quintana went ok at Dwars by all accounts, whereas Contador and Valverde probably didn't enjoy them last yr but stuck to their task. Can't see Purito enjoying that bit - perhaps he'll get a piggyback from Kristoff!
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Here's hoping that all four make it fit and fresh to the start line. I somehow doubt it will happen; illness or injury (or maybe plain old fashioned tiredness in the case of Contador) will probably nobble one of them.

    This decade, Froome has bested all three in GTs; while Contador had the better of Froome twice in the Vuelta. I think those two are very evenly matched if fit and fresh. Question is how much Quintana has improved since his very impressive Giro win last year - if he has then you have to agree he is favourite on a course with limited TTing. Nibali looks on paper the weakest - historically he's come up short against Froome and Contador - but he is every bit the racer and tactian that Contador is IMO, and he has won or podiumed in his last 4 GTs.

    So exciting stuff if they all make it and stay on the bike into week 2!
  • Crozza
    Crozza Posts: 991
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The thing is it's an easy Tour de France. No TT and only 2 mountain finishes which are challenging (plateau de Beille and Alpe d'Huez... the other mountain stages are too easy to yield big gaps. Even the usual monumental Pyrenean stage is watered down and frankly amateurish... used to be 4-5 mountains, it's down to 3. You can take more seconds up the mur de Huy than on the all pyrenees

    Someone might well win the Tour on the cobbles again

    they go over the Tourmalet and the Galibier, so not sure "easy" is the word I would choose. that 110km penultimate stage that copies the one from 2011 has potential for fireworks. if Contador is down at that stage expect one of his hail mary attacks
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Crozza wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The thing is it's an easy Tour de France. No TT and only 2 mountain finishes which are challenging (plateau de Beille and Alpe d'Huez... the other mountain stages are too easy to yield big gaps. Even the usual monumental Pyrenean stage is watered down and frankly amateurish... used to be 4-5 mountains, it's down to 3. You can take more seconds up the mur de Huy than on the all pyrenees

    Someone might well win the Tour on the cobbles again

    they go over the Tourmalet and the Galibier, so not sure "easy" is the word I would choose. that 110km penultimate stage that copies the one from 2011 has potential for fireworks. if Contador is down at that stage expect one of his hail mary attacks

    Unless Tourmalet and Galibier are mountain finishes or unless there is massive downpour on the Galibier, history tells they are both harmless.
    I have been up the Tourmalet... unless you beef it up with a couple of monsters before-hand it's not that hard. Typically the stage with the Tourmalet is irrelevant for the GC
    left the forum March 2023
  • Ashbeck
    Ashbeck Posts: 235
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Am I the only one who does not care so long as we have a good race? Sorry if I am off topic or off sentiment with you more seasoned GT fans, but my view is that there is a race to the end not a race in the first half and a procession to the end with a dominant team. Not sure if that happens these days or not but I am planning to get back into TdF watching this year after a break of several years.


    Good job you never watched the Giro this year then. Pretty much nullified by bad decisions, to what was a superb first week followed by two weeks of pretty boring racing where the GC concerned. All laid on for Contador and a proper borefest. You didn't miss anything.

    Hopefully the Tour will be better (which won't take much)
  • Ashbeck
    Ashbeck Posts: 235
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Similarly, Froome ( :wink: ) is desperate to assert his dominance over this generation, especially Contador.

    Indeed he is. He has only 8 GTs to go at time of writing. Only two years younger than Contador so he just needs a few GT doubles and he will be there in no time.


    Froome being at a major disadvantage, being clean of course.
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Ashbeck wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Am I the only one who does not care so long as we have a good race? Sorry if I am off topic or off sentiment with you more seasoned GT fans, but my view is that there is a race to the end not a race in the first half and a procession to the end with a dominant team. Not sure if that happens these days or not but I am planning to get back into TdF watching this year after a break of several years.


    Good job you never watched the Giro this year then. Pretty much nullified by bad decisions, to what was a superb first week followed by two weeks of pretty boring racing where the GC concerned. All laid on for Contador and a proper borefest. You didn't miss anything.

    Hopefully the Tour will be better (which won't take much)

    If this was your genuine impression of the Giro then you seriously know nothing about cycling...
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Ashbeck wrote:
    Good job you never watched the Giro this year then. Pretty much nullified by bad decisions, to what was a superb first week followed by two weeks of pretty boring racing where the GC concerned. All laid on for Contador and a proper borefest. You didn't miss anything.

    Hopefully the Tour will be better (which won't take much)

    You said this on the other thread. It's no less deranged on this thread.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • Ashbeck
    Ashbeck Posts: 235
    Salsiccia1 wrote:
    Ashbeck wrote:
    Good job you never watched the Giro this year then. Pretty much nullified by bad decisions, to what was a superb first week followed by two weeks of pretty boring racing where the GC concerned. All laid on for Contador and a proper borefest. You didn't miss anything.

    Hopefully the Tour will be better (which won't take much)

    You said this on the other thread. It's no less deranged on this thread.


    And as i said on the other thread, you come from Cardiff. lol..do me a favour.

    Seriously? :roll:
  • Ashbeck
    Ashbeck Posts: 235
    Paulie W wrote:
    Ashbeck wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Am I the only one who does not care so long as we have a good race? Sorry if I am off topic or off sentiment with you more seasoned GT fans, but my view is that there is a race to the end not a race in the first half and a procession to the end with a dominant team. Not sure if that happens these days or not but I am planning to get back into TdF watching this year after a break of several years.


    Good job you never watched the Giro this year then. Pretty much nullified by bad decisions, to what was a superb first week followed by two weeks of pretty boring racing where the GC concerned. All laid on for Contador and a proper borefest. You didn't miss anything.

    Hopefully the Tour will be better (which won't take much)

    If this was your genuine impression of the Giro then you seriously know nothing about cycling...

    And what don't i know exactly? which bit was it? whas it when i said at the end of Week 1:

    1. The Giro as a contest was over was over the minute Porte was penalised. Which it was.
    2. Aru wouldn't match Contador in the TT, in effect, its over for him. Which happened.
    3. Portes head won't be in it now mentally, with that time penalty. Which happened.
    4. Porte will call it quits after the TT if he's not in it time wise. Which happened.
    5. The Giro is now dead as Contador will win this with Porte being his main contender and Aru not being there just yet. Which happened.

    So you tell me Mr Genius which bit 'don't i know' about cycling? Go have a look back at my predictions over the Classics season and then again, you come back on here and tell me (keyboard warrior) what i got wrong.

    Fact is, i didn't get anything wrong. Just because you're a bit of a mug where Pro cycling comes from and can't see the real picture being played out, doesn't mean I am.

    The world needs cart horses and race horses. Don't be ashamed being a cart horse.
  • Crozza
    Crozza Posts: 991
    on paper, that's what happened

    the reality was more exciting somehow
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Ashbeck wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Ashbeck wrote:
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Am I the only one who does not care so long as we have a good race? Sorry if I am off topic or off sentiment with you more seasoned GT fans, but my view is that there is a race to the end not a race in the first half and a procession to the end with a dominant team. Not sure if that happens these days or not but I am planning to get back into TdF watching this year after a break of several years.


    Good job you never watched the Giro this year then. Pretty much nullified by bad decisions, to what was a superb first week followed by two weeks of pretty boring racing where the GC concerned. All laid on for Contador and a proper borefest. You didn't miss anything.

    Hopefully the Tour will be better (which won't take much)

    If this was your genuine impression of the Giro then you seriously know nothing about cycling...

    And what don't i know exactly? which bit was it? whas it when i said at the end of Week 1:

    1. The Giro as a contest was over was over the minute Porte was penalised. Which it was.
    2. Aru wouldn't match Contador in the TT, in effect, its over for him. Which happened.
    3. Portes head won't be in it now mentally, with that time penalty. Which happened.
    4. Porte will call it quits after the TT if he's not in it time wise. Which happened.
    5. The Giro is now dead as Contador will win this with Porte being his main contender and Aru not being there just yet. Which happened.

    So you tell me Mr Genius which bit 'don't i know' about cycling? Go have a look back at my predictions over the Classics season and then again, you come back on here and tell me (keyboard warrior) what i got wrong.

    Fact is, i didn't get anything wrong. Just because you're a bit of a mug where Pro cycling comes from and can't see the real picture being played out, doesn't mean I am.

    The world needs cart horses and race horses. Don't be ashamed being a cart horse.

    MOD EDIT Comment removed
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Ashbeck wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Similarly, Froome ( :wink: ) is desperate to assert his dominance over this generation, especially Contador.

    Indeed he is. He has only 8 GTs to go at time of writing. Only two years younger than Contador so he just needs a few GT doubles and he will be there in no time.


    Froome being at a major disadvantage, being clean of course.

    What makes you so sure that Froome is clean? Bertie isn't and Nibali isn't. But I don't think Froome, Quintana, Purito, Valverde are either. Pinot may be though.

    What you're saying is that Froome is so good that he can beat all the dopers?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Joelsim wrote:
    Ashbeck wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Similarly, Froome ( :wink: ) is desperate to assert his dominance over this generation, especially Contador.

    Indeed he is. He has only 8 GTs to go at time of writing. Only two years younger than Contador so he just needs a few GT doubles and he will be there in no time.


    Froome being at a major disadvantage, being clean of course.

    What makes you so sure that Froome is clean? Bertie isn't and Nibali isn't. But I don't think Froome, Quintana, Purito, Valverde are either. Pinot may be though.


    In the absence of any shadow of evidence, it's just hopeless speculation... can we leave doping aside? It's really not relevant to the discussion
    left the forum March 2023
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Ashbeck wrote:
    1. The Giro as a contest was over was over the minute Porte was penalised. Which it was.
    2. Aru wouldn't match Contador in the TT, in effect, its over for him. Which happened.
    3. Portes head won't be in it now mentally, with that time penalty. Which happened.
    4. Porte will call it quits after the TT if he's not in it time wise. Which happened.
    5. The Giro is now dead as Contador will win this with Porte being his main contender and Aru not being there just yet. Which happened.

    1. No it wasn't, there was loads of exciting racing and great stages, and although the outcome was the most likley it would have been even if Porte was there.

    2. Everyone knows Aru wouldn't match Contador in the TT. But why was it certain that he might not have challenged in the mountains, or Landa if Astana had got their tactics right.

    3. Hard to say, 2 mins on that parcours though wasn't impossible, especially if Porte had been fit for the TT.

    4. Porte called it quits after the TT due to the crash a few days previous.

    5. Well done, you were right.

    But to say the race was ruined and that it was boring, even for the GC, is so inaccurate.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Ashbeck wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Similarly, Froome ( :wink: ) is desperate to assert his dominance over this generation, especially Contador.

    Indeed he is. He has only 8 GTs to go at time of writing. Only two years younger than Contador so he just needs a few GT doubles and he will be there in no time.


    Froome being at a major disadvantage, being clean of course.

    What makes you so sure that Froome is clean? Bertie isn't and Nibali isn't. But I don't think Froome, Quintana, Purito, Valverde are either. Pinot may be though.


    In the absence of any shadow of evidence, it's just hopeless speculation... can we leave doping aside? It's really not relevant to the discussion

    +1
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,716
    This thread is going off topic rapidly!

    The Tour will have to go some to beat the Giro for scenary, daily excitement and attacking racing.

    Yes the GC was dead but a lot of GT's start with us having a pretty fair idea of the winner.
    http://fendrieneu.home.blog
    My blog and pod...
    Beers of Belgium Cycling Club UK
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    jimmythecuckoo wrote:
    This thread is going off topic rapidly!

    The Tour will have to go some to beat the Giro for scenary, daily excitement and attacking racing.

    Yes the GC was dead but a lot of GT's start with us having a pretty fair idea of the winner.

    there are a lot of interesting stages for one day glory... less so for GC glory, IMO. I think the racing will be good
    left the forum March 2023
  • nic_77
    nic_77 Posts: 929
    Ashbeck wrote:

    And what don't i know exactly? which bit was it?

    The GC, by definition, isn't just about the overall winner.
    Strava
    Race reports
    Bike Aero Data
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Tangled Metal did you watch the Giro this year? From what you are saying, it sounds like you may have appreciated it a lot.
    Never watched it. Sounds like it was good. I've not got sky only freeview so unless it's on itv, c5 or similar channel at reasonable times I'm not able to watch cycling. Young child with family/work commitments means I take my sleep when I can which means no late nights for cycling. I know my priorities are a bit out with that but that's life.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Crozza wrote:

    they go over the Tourmalet and the Galibier, so not sure "easy" is the word I would choose.
    the Galibier is likely to be out; the approach road is closed because of a tunnel collapse
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Tangled Metal did you watch the Giro this year? From what you are saying, it sounds like you may have appreciated it a lot.
    Never watched it. Sounds like it was good. I've not got sky only freeview so unless it's on itv, c5 or similar channel at reasonable times I'm not able to watch cycling. Young child with family/work commitments means I take my sleep when I can which means no late nights for cycling. I know my priorities are a bit out with that but that's life.

    Yeah makes sense; I stream majority of it though rather than watch it on tv. On youtube you can watch highlights or even the full Italian tv coverage of each stage (link called 'Full On-Demand Stage ** Broadcast) if you are interested. The links are available here:
    http://www.steephill.tv/giro-d-italia/
    Stage 20, 19, 18 and 16 were by far the best.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    I think (hope) it will be very clode between all 4 of them. I also think that Froome never got a chance to have a crack on the cobbles properly this year. If you think what Gee and Porte did on that stage after Froome had been knocked off yet again, it would have put Froome in a great position behind Nibbles.

    I have to say though in reality I think that it's inevitable that one of them will fall victim to some mishap or other be it illness, a crash or whatever
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited June 2015
    vincenzo_nibali.jpg
    CORVOS_00025098-015.jpg
    174130_1c64f60b-e08a-457c-8c87-035fe0716742_zps6733534f.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Crozza
    Crozza Posts: 991
    Can Barbie have her chair back now please?
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Tangled Metal did you watch the Giro this year? From what you are saying, it sounds like you may have appreciated it a lot.
    Never watched it. Sounds like it was good. I've not got sky only freeview so unless it's on itv, c5 or similar channel at reasonable times I'm not able to watch cycling. Young child with family/work commitments means I take my sleep when I can which means no late nights for cycling. I know my priorities are a bit out with that but that's life.
    You seem to be in a Tangled Mess but I sympathise with your problems.
    I'm no Techno but I made sure I have a recorder and I watch the ITV4 schedules to Record the Highlight programs at my leisure and they sometimes show repeats of Classic racing but nothing on a regular timing during the year.
    Alternatively as you are here on the internet, there is so much you can catch up with "youtube" if you get any time from work or family.
    Good Luck and keep struggling onwards.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972

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