Giro d'Italia 2015 Stage 21 ***Spoiler/Wind Down***

TheBigBean

frenchfighter wrote:

^^Yeah he is definitely good but I would prefer to go on his previous GT and stage race performances rather than a race 5 years ago. If you look at just the winners of that race, some are strong performers in the mountains and some are not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_l%27Avenir

I think you're being a bit harsh on Landa. He's only 25 and, whilst his previous GT results were hardly brilliant, he wasn't exactly coming in in the grupetta.

frenchfighter

It is a big step up though wouldn't you agree? The difference between 30th and 3rd is MILES larger.

Compare that with Aru's (also 25) GT palmares:
42nd in his first then 3rd, 5th, 2nd in his next three.
ie/. Pure unadulterated talent.

salsiccia1

Ashbeck wrote:

Most boring Giro ever.

The event was killed the minute Porte was handed a Giro killing time penalty, because 'it's the rules'.

It's also the 'rules' to disqualify any rider who removes their helmet during a ride, just like Contador did.

2015 Giro. Corrupt, fixed and a total borefest. I won't be watching future versions based on this years shoddy display.

I'd lay off the drugs if I were you.

Vino'sGhost

Joelsim wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

I much prefer Kirby to Hatch.

I find this much more disturbing than your hardcore doping views.

I don't have any hardcore doping views, just a dose of reality in a world where testing is very limited in its efficacy.

Contador showed just how unrepentant he is today. Add Valverde, Rebellin and scores of people just talking to Ferrari about training, throw in Astana, Katusha et al with DSs with all the contacts you could ever need, add in Michele and others with their huge knowledge of dosage, glow times, science etc, add in ridiculous performances from the Zakarins and Alaphilippes recently. I could go on.

When you consider that the passport is clearly not particularly sensitive and the best it can do is to flag those overdoing it, micro dosing that is undetectable by the morning and then add that to the vast knowledge of the above, to me there is absolutely no doubt that doping is very prevalent in the peloton and it wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority of the stars were using PEDs.

Bang on right. and it wasn't too long ago you'd have been burned as a heretic for suggesting Armstrong was doping....

frenchfighter

:?:


http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/girodital ... WxZ-fnF_AQ

thomthom

Ashbeck wrote:

Most boring Giro ever.

The event was killed the minute Porte was handed a Giro killing time penalty, because 'it's the rules'.

It's also the 'rules' to disqualify any rider who removes their helmet during a ride, just like Contador did.

2015 Giro. Corrupt, fixed and a total borefest. I won't be watching future versions based on this years shoddy display.

joelsim

frenchfighter wrote:

It is a big step up though wouldn't you agree? The difference between 30th and 3rd is MILES larger.

Compare that with Aru's (also 25) GT palmares:
42nd in his first then 3rd, 5th, 2nd in his next three.
ie/. Pure unadulterated talent.

Aru's freshness on the last couple of mountain stages was mega, especially as he was on his knees the day before. Amazing.

Reminds me of Kreuziger and Landis amongst others.

Landa too showing amazing climbing skills, making up a couple of minutes on that other beacon of credibility, Zakarin, before being hauled back by his team as it would have been just too incredible to be plausible.

And we know about Bertie, who no doubt has the same blood profiles as when he was caught with plasticiser and clen (although not according to his unrepentant self) a few years ago. I guess if his profile was different now then the passport would be able to flag it easily.

Anonymous

frenchfighter wrote:

It is a big step up though wouldn't you agree? The difference between 30th and 3rd is MILES larger.

Compare that with Aru's (also 25) GT palmares:
42nd in his first then 3rd, 5th, 2nd in his next three.
ie/. Pure unadulterated talent.

Wait surely the jump from 42nd to 3rd is bigger than 30th to 3rd?

It's also 3 placings smaller than Contador's jump from 30th to 1st. Can't really compare.

TheBigBean

frenchfighter wrote:

It is a big step up though wouldn't you agree? The difference between 30th and 3rd is MILES larger.

Compare that with Aru's (also 25) GT palmares:
42nd in his first then 3rd, 5th, 2nd in his next three.
ie/. Pure unadulterated talent.

Of course, but look at the names in the list below. This is 20th-40th in this year's Giro. A lot of riders in the list can climb well when they want to. Then compare it with the young rider's classification. Note how 2nd place on young riders list (Formolo) is 31st overall. It is not easy to finish high in the GC when you are young and therefore Landa's previous results are not that bad.

Young riders

1 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 88:24:18
2 Davide Formolo (Ita) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team 1:51:46
3 Fabio Felline (Ita) TrekRacing 1:54:04
4 Sebastian Henao (Col) Team Sky 2:37:35
5 Kenny Elissonde (Fra) FDJ.fr 2:45:04

GC

20 Carlos Betancur (Col) AG2R La Mondiale 1:17:27
21 Andre Cardoso (Por) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team 1:19:27
22 Stefano Pirazzi (Ita) Bardiani CSF 1:21:38
23 Diego Rosa (Ita) Astana Pro Team 1:24:57
24 Franco Pellizotti (Ita) Androni Giocattoli 1:30:49
25 Dario Cataldo (Ita) Astana Pro Team 1:35:24
26 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team Sky 1:45:52
27 Ion Izagirre (Spa) Movistar Team 1:46:30
28 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Tinkoff-Saxo 1:47:03
29 Benat Intxausti (Spa) Movistar Team 1:49:22
30 Jonathan Monsalve (Ven) Southeast Pro Cycling 1:50:19
31 Davide Formolo (Ita) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team 1:53:39
32 Fabio Felline (Ita) TrekRacing 1:55:57
33 Michael Rogers (Aus) Tinkoff-Saxo 2:11:06
34 David De La Cruz (Spa) Etixx - Quick-Step 2:15:27
35 Luis Leon Sanchez (Spa) Astana Pro Team 2:17:30
36 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) IAM Cycling 2:22:52
37 Pavel Kochetkov (Rus) Team Katusha 2:23:10
38 Igor Anton (Spa) Movistar Team 2:27:19
39 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) BMC Racing Team 2:30:21
40 Przemyslaw Niemiec (Pol) Lampre-Merida 2:39:20
41 Sebastian Henao (Col) Team Sky 2:39:28

Ashbeck

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Ashbeck wrote:

Most boring Giro ever.

The event was killed the minute Porte was handed a Giro killing time penalty, because 'it's the rules'.

It's also the 'rules' to disqualify any rider who removes their helmet during a ride, just like Contador did.

2015 Giro. Corrupt, fixed and a total borefest. I won't be watching future versions based on this years shoddy display.

I'd lay off the drugs if I were you.

Says the lad from 'Cardiff'. Do me a favour. :roll:

salsiccia1

Ashbeck wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Ashbeck wrote:

Most boring Giro ever.

The event was killed the minute Porte was handed a Giro killing time penalty, because 'it's the rules'.

It's also the 'rules' to disqualify any rider who removes their helmet during a ride, just like Contador did.

2015 Giro. Corrupt, fixed and a total borefest. I won't be watching future versions based on this years shoddy display.

I'd lay off the drugs if I were you.

Says the lad from 'Cardiff'. Do me a favour. :roll:

What does that have to do with anything?

Edit: removed insult from my original response

mididoctors

Ashbeck wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Ashbeck wrote:

Most boring Giro ever.

The event was killed the minute Porte was handed a Giro killing time penalty, because 'it's the rules'.

It's also the 'rules' to disqualify any rider who removes their helmet during a ride, just like Contador did.

2015 Giro. Corrupt, fixed and a total borefest. I won't be watching future versions based on this years shoddy display.

I'd lay off the drugs if I were you.

Says the lad from 'Cardiff'. Do me a favour. :roll:

INTERNETS!

The_Boy

Macaloon wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Did you have a triple-A dangling from your lanyard?

Is that the first HMHB reference of the Giro?

King of hi-vis. And my sig... Was desperate for an "Equus, on the buses" moment.

Yeah, i got the ref - and annoyed everyone in the computer labs for three hours while whistling it to myself as a result . Was just surprised I hadn't noticed any others during a full three weeks' racing.

Macaloon

I see what you mean now I think the drama of the race drowned out early distractions about caravans, joints, and Sky's repeated disregard for the rules. The mighty NB was superflous for once.

More seriously, I loved the direct moto cam feed on Rai. The breaks always seemed to have interesting riders doing interesting things in them. Great to watch, uninterrupted for 10 mins at a stretch.

RichN95.

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Ashbeck wrote:

Says the lad from 'Cardiff'. Do me a favour. :roll:

What does that have to do with anything

Edit: removed insult from my original response

Are you not on drugs? I thought we were all on drugs. I can't walk through town without someone forcing ketamine on me. It's the only way we can get through the day with our apparent ever- present male voice choirs, sheep and valleys. One day maybe we will have the sophistication of Essex.

Macaloon

Who said

The way I look at it, Contador rode that race, was tested if and when the controllers thought fit and he had the pink jersey at the end of it. So he won the 2011 edition and if he shouldn't have been there because of the previous Tour de France clenbuterol affair then that ought to have been decided quickly. Not a year and a half later.

He did.

frenchfighter

Boom, good to read.
Shares the same opinion as Scarponi (2nd in Giro 2011) and Andy Schleck (2nd in Tour 2010).
Most pros do in any case.

The rest of that article is very good too.

dolan_driver

frenchfighter wrote:

Boom, good to read.
Shares the same opinion as Scarponi (2nd in Giro 2011) and Andy Schleck (2nd in Tour 2010).
Most pros do in any case.

The rest of that article is very good too.

Do you have a link to the survey of the peloton that confirms this?

A bit surprising to see Millar coming out with this assessment of the 2011 Giro result. He usually writes good stuff.

We still have some way to go before the result sheets don't contain confirmed dopers. Another 5 or ten years might do it.

DD.

The_Boy

Dolan Driver wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Boom, good to read.
Shares the same opinion as Scarponi (2nd in Giro 2011) and Andy Schleck (2nd in Tour 2010).
Most pros do in any case.

The rest of that article is very good too.

Do you have a link to the survey of the peloton that confirms this?

A bit surprising to see Millar coming out with this assessment of the 2011 Giro result. He usually writes good stuff.

We still have some way to go before the result sheets don't contain confirmed dopers. Another 5 or ten years might do it.

DD.

Tbf, it's not that controversial a statement. Contador should have been stripped of the 20120 Tour for a positive test and had his two year ban start from the final CAS ruling rather than the initial positive test.

RichN95.

With regard to Contador's 'wins'.

At the 2010 Tour de France he tested positive for a banned substance. That is a non-negotiable DQ - regardless of how it got in his body. (For example, Mick Rogers got cleared of wrong doing but he was still DQed from the Japan Cup). Anyone who claims he won that race is a 24 carat moron.

Now, to the 2011 Giro, This was a bungled ban by farcical back-dating (either someone is in a race or they are not). In my opinion, he should have kept that win and served a full ban of not cycling for two years - which would have meant that he missed the 2012 Vuelta. So pick one or the other. He can't have both. Either way he has won seven GTs.

TheBigBean

Dolan Driver wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Boom, good to read.
Shares the same opinion as Scarponi (2nd in Giro 2011) and Andy Schleck (2nd in Tour 2010).
Most pros do in any case.

The rest of that article is very good too.

Do you have a link to the survey of the peloton that confirms this?

A bit surprising to see Millar coming out with this assessment of the 2011 Giro result. He usually writes good stuff.

We still have some way to go before the result sheets don't contain confirmed dopers. Another 5 or ten years might do it.

DD.

Did Hesjedal win the Giro?

TheBigBean

The_Boy wrote:

Tbf, it's not that controversial a statement. Contador should have been stripped of the 20120 Tour for a positive test and had his two year ban start from the final CAS ruling rather than the initial positive test.

This is basically the problem.

dish_dash

TheBigBean wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Boom, good to read.
Shares the same opinion as Scarponi (2nd in Giro 2011) and Andy Schleck (2nd in Tour 2010).
Most pros do in any case.

The rest of that article is very good too.

Do you have a link to the survey of the peloton that confirms this?

A bit surprising to see Millar coming out with this assessment of the 2011 Giro result. He usually writes good stuff.

We still have some way to go before the result sheets don't contain confirmed dopers. Another 5 or ten years might do it.

DD.

Did Hesjedal win the Giro?

Yes, pipped Purito to the win in 2012.

dolan_driver

TheBigBean wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Boom, good to read.
Shares the same opinion as Scarponi (2nd in Giro 2011) and Andy Schleck (2nd in Tour 2010).
Most pros do in any case.

The rest of that article is very good too.

Do you have a link to the survey of the peloton that confirms this?

A bit surprising to see Millar coming out with this assessment of the 2011 Giro result. He usually writes good stuff.

We still have some way to go before the result sheets don't contain confirmed dopers. Another 5 or ten years might do it.

DD.

Did Hesjedal win the Giro?

Yes. Yes he did. Like Contador, he did take dope at one point in his career. Unlike Contador, he;

1. had the spine to finally admit his doping and

2. he doesn't go around claiming to have won races that he didn't win!

A few small but subtle differences between the two riders.

DD.

Macaloon

Dolan Driver wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

Did Hesjedal win the Giro?

Yes. Yes he did. Like Contador, he did take dope at one point in his career. Unlike Contador, he;

1. had the spine to finally admit his doping and

But not the balls to do it before the statute of limitations ran out? Nobody knows precisely what caused the extreme delay in Ryder's confession. It could simply be that for all this time he was holding out for USADA. Similarly the King of Spain may have brought some pressure on Contador.

It's a bit dodgy making character judgments on such flimsy grounds.

TheBigBean

Dolan Driver wrote:

Yes. Yes he did. Like Contador, he did take dope at one point in his career. Unlike Contador, he;

1. had the spine to finally admit his doping and

2. he doesn't go around claiming to have won races that he didn't win!

A few small but subtle differences between the two riders.

DD.

Maybe once the statute of limitations has expired, Contador will confess his sins after having developed the spine /been faced with the possibility of perjury when chatting to USADA / having had a book published about him. Will that make him morally better than Hesjedal on the basis he actually served a ban?

Taking the moral high ground on doping in cycling usually leads to contradictions.