Motors on bikes (again)
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That's Richie on one of the Orica bikes0 -
Ferrari:I wonder if the inspectors checked, as well as frames, lenticular wheels and spokes, ideal structures where small motors can be hidden in the hubs...
http://53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=158
He knows it has been happening.0 -
House journal for many of the bankers on here weighs in with typical insight -
<snips>This popular view of a bicycle's stability—and thus what makes a bike easy to ride—has endured since 1899, when the British mathematician Francis Whipple, while an undergraduate at Cambridge University, analysed a two-wheeled vehicle's dynamic behaviour. Whipple’s mathematical model of a bicycle—comprising four rigid components (frame, handlebar assembly and two wheels) connected by three “hinges” (two wheel axles and a handlebar journal)—has been the starting point for practically every study of bicycle behaviour since.
Unfortunately, the popular explanation of a bicycle’s self-stabilising ability is flawed.The search goes on for an e-bike that does all these things properly, has a small lithium-ion battery pack capable of delivering a genuine 40 miles on a single charge, is light enough to carry, can fold and fit in the boot (trunk) of a car, and does not cost an arm and a leg to buy. Your correspondent has yet to find one. But he believes he is not alone in hoping some enterprising manufacturer will one day rise to the challenge....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
House journal for many of the bankers on here weighs in with typical insight -
<snips>This popular view of a bicycle's stability—and thus what makes a bike easy to ride—has endured since 1899, when the British mathematician Francis Whipple, while an undergraduate at Cambridge University, analysed a two-wheeled vehicle's dynamic behaviour. Whipple’s mathematical model of a bicycle—comprising four rigid components (frame, handlebar assembly and two wheels) connected by three “hinges” (two wheel axles and a handlebar journal)—has been the starting point for practically every study of bicycle behaviour since.
Unfortunately, the popular explanation of a bicycle’s self-stabilising ability is flawed.The search goes on for an e-bike that does all these things properly, has a small lithium-ion battery pack capable of delivering a genuine 40 miles on a single charge, is light enough to carry, can fold and fit in the boot (trunk) of a car, and does not cost an arm and a leg to buy. Your correspondent has yet to find one. But he believes he is not alone in hoping some enterprising manufacturer will one day rise to the challenge.
The key to that is 'and does not cost an arm and a leg to buy'0 -
One for the cycling podcast...
Some discussion on the Podcast about this today
Firstly suggesting that it will blow up on the silly season during of the TDF
Secondly a theory suggested for Contador's 'suspicious' bike/wheel changes is that he is obsessive about wheels, tyres and tyre pressures and that he is changing to certain combinations for final climbs etc and that this obsession extends to being secret squirrel about this equipment.
There was an example given where he changes wheels following a puncture and Basso swaps wheels but carries on with Bertie's wheel.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Lithium polymer bottles. A half a third or a quarter fluid, the rest battery, chuck them to team when out.. Lots of Feasible options, but not logical given the fall out of getting caught.
Incredible how quick the Mugen's went at the TT this year, the tech is certainty evolving at a decent pace.0 -
One for the cycling podcast...
Some discussion on the Podcast about this today
Firstly suggesting that it will blow up on the silly season during of the TDF
Secondly a theory suggested for Contador's 'suspicious' bike/wheel changes is that he is obsessive about wheels, tyres and tyre pressures and that he is changing to certain combinations for final climbs etc and that this obsession extends to being secret squirrel about this equipment.
There was an example given where he changes wheels following a puncture and Basso swaps wheels but carries on with Bertie's wheel.
Further discussion about this at the Cycling Podcast event last night. Seems clear that Bertie is using some form of super light tyre combination for the final climbs, at times to the detriment of safety (Friebe mentioned rows with equipment suppliers not comfortable with how Contador and his mechanic want to push thing).
And I knew I'd read about it somewhere before. Contador confirmed it in this piece“There are a lot of reasons to change a bike. Like tubulars, which [may] not be able to be raced for 200km, but they can last for 30km or 40km,” said Contador0 -
As someone mentioned on another forum, when was the last time a puff of smoke didn't turn into a raging inferno? (No, it wasn't The Clinic)0
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Lithium polymer bottles. A half a third or a quarter fluid, the rest battery, chuck them to team when out.. Lots of Feasible options, but not logical given the fall out of getting caught.
Incredible how quick the Mugen's went at the TT this year, the tech is certainty evolving at a decent pace.
I don't know how serious all these ideas are, but you'd obviously have to have a connection in the bottle cage and I don't see how you hid that; The main issue is the motor, all the talk of batteries and switches is just a distraction.0 -
A couple of things here. The first from Lemond. "I know that motors exist because I've ridden one..."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-the-uci-should-use-a-heat-gun-to-detect-motors
A piece from Gazetta from a couple of months back - Google translated.
USE THE STARTER? 1 MILLION fine, 6 MONTHS of DISQUALIFICATION
The mystery is in the bike
Turn. Turn all right and not the chatter. Release from 30 to 500 Watts. Are electric scooters for racing bicycles. The Uci, the world federciclo on boost COFCO (independent Commission for reform of cycling), begin to take seriously the problem of doping, so that a current season has changed the rules. Now, in part 12 «discipline and procedures», has introduced a new paragraph 12.1.013.bis «Fraud» technology. The penalties for the runner are the exclusion order, the disqualification for a minimum period of 6 months, a fine by 19.265 to 192.230 euro. Penalty tougher for the team: from 96.135 to 963.160 euros, one million Swiss francs. To find them, abandoned the scanner because of excessive costs (60 thousand euros per rental), you will use the probes. «Can also do a bike parts, are not so much. also because they are often not using bikes in the finale, ' says one of the greatest experts in the industry.
The BLITZ to the Paris-Nice, on two bikes per team, and the Milan-San Remo, on 37 between race and escort of Trek, Etixx, Astana and Tinkoff, Commissioners have used Uci probes to search for just the device. The Classic, and what is not, to drive a magistrate also operations of Imperia and six police. "Luck was that did not control the media ', our source reveals. But what happened that evening, upon arrival? Certainly there were animated discussions between team managers and Commissioners. So someone said, "can control all the bike they want, but they have no right to get on our vehicles." Of bicycles rigged began to speak in 2010, when Fabian Cancellara was accused by many of having used the scooter to Flanders and Roubaix. Remember the terrifying stretch on the Grammont and plain to take wheel Boonen? But those are not the only suspects episodes. Daniel Martin, Ireland, Garmin fell strangely on the last curve of the Liege-Bastogne-Liege, 2014 but the most resounding concerned the Canadian Ryder Hesjedal, his teammate, in the 7th stage of the Vuelta last year. Remember how turned his bike after the fall?
NOT ONLY the pros ' but how are and how they work scooters? There are very powerful, reaching 500 Watts. Use them people who wants to have fun and do less fatigue, but also Princes and sheiks. Not the pros. A well equipped bike can cost even 20,000 euros. The pro ' smaller engines are of lesser power, from 30 to 70 watts. May seem little, but are a lot, a lot. To a climber of 60-65 pounds a power increase from 0.45 to over 1 watt/kg. The difference, however, is not power, but the silence. However they use already in so many, even in the granfondo. In Italy in recent years were sold 1.between 200 and kit lovers I often see that in the first 5-10 there are 6 riders who use it. Scooters are the new epo. The system that revolves around sometimes is occult. It happens that people of one meter and sixty buy frames that are good to people of a meter and eighty. Clearly that bike is not for them, "continues our interlocutor.
START The engine ignition can be made with three different systems. Almost no one uses the button, however microscopic and tucked away. A popular system by 2011 is linked to the heart rate monitor. You map to the computer to which heart rate start: reached this level, under lights goes out. The third system, the most innovative, is linked to Bluetooth. The motor can be switched on at a distance, for example by flagship. «With a sort of kers batteries last for 4-5 hours also. Even the weight is a problem. «To make them even lighter using plastic bevel gear, to a pro ' does not count the duration. A total of 200-300 grams weigh. What you want them to be for so often read that Bikes need to be weighted down to fit in the regulations?».
The HIDING PLACES there are those who say are hidden in the vertical tube, others in oblique or bracket. It comes to wheel hubs. «You can do everything, the possibilities are immense, from science fiction. I am convinced that many companies have built frames with large tubes just to be able to accommodate the engine. " Another way, which this time involves the chassis, would be to a room inside the tubes to the casing. The probe, at the time of the audit, would drop in the pipes ' led ', without finding the obstacle.
BIOLOGICAL PASSPORT Admitted that they are not traceable, how can you fight? There is a fairly simple system. In the biological passport would also enter the performance data that emerge from the threshold test. Then you do testing during races. In the lowlands the calculation isn't easy, uphill instead formulas work to perfection. Physics is physics, not a matter of believe it or not. For example, if an athlete has 420 watt tests, cannot climb a mountain at 430-440. Otherwise it has the engine. If nothing is done, we will see the MotoGP races». The creator of scooters was a Hungarian engineer, Istvan Varjas, who patented the first 17 years ago and put them on the market 8-9 years later. Not to copy and not to reveal their trade secrets, bought the components from different companies. Now, however, the production is broader and involves companies from German and Austrian models.
EVEN the WHEELS technological innovations also concern the wheels, especially those in high profile carbon. There are those who practice of t in the circle and passes within a special thread. They say that this practice, remain prohibited because editing a component which has been type-approved, serve to diminish the "hertz", i.e. reduce that effect «noise» that studies would act negatively on the aerodynamics.0 -
It almost always doesn't. How many internet conspiracy theories turn out to be true?As someone mentioned on another forum, when was the last time a puff of smoke didn't turn into a raging inferno? (No, it wasn't The Clinic)Twitter: @RichN950 -
It almost always doesn't. How many internet conspiracy theories turn out to be true?As someone mentioned on another forum, when was the last time a puff of smoke didn't turn into a raging inferno? (No, it wasn't The Clinic)
I think we come from different planets Rich
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Two points, as this my field of expertise.Joelsim wrote:The creator of scooters was a Hungarian engineer, Istvan Varjas, who patented the first 17 years ago and put them on the market 8-9 years later. Not to copy and not to reveal their trade secrets, bought the components from different companies.
1. No-one called Istvan Varjas (or indeed Istvan Vargas) has ever applied for a patent. Ever. For anything.
2. If they wanted not to reveal their 'trade secrets' they would not have applied for a patent - which gets published. Also anyone could just open the bike up and look at the components.
The writer of that article has so little technical knowledge, I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Two points, as this my field of expertise.Joelsim wrote:The creator of scooters was a Hungarian engineer, Istvan Varjas, who patented the first 17 years ago and put them on the market 8-9 years later. Not to copy and not to reveal their trade secrets, bought the components from different companies.
1. No-one called Istvan Varjas (or indeed Istvan Vargas) has ever applied for a patent. Ever. For anything.
2. If they wanted not to reveal their 'trade secrets' they would not have applied for a patent - which gets published. Also anyone could just open the bike up and look at the components.
The writer of that article has so little technical knowledge, I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.
Did you read what LeMond said? Quite why you keep on about patents is beyond me and irrelevant.0 -
Joel, get a grip. Nobody is denying motors exist. You can go buy one yourself right now if you have the money. The real issues are a) the claimed ability of some of these motors to completely avoid detection and b) the supposed widespread use of these motors within the pro peloton. What LeMond said has no bearing on either of those points.
Two points, as this my field of expertise.Joelsim wrote:The creator of scooters was a Hungarian engineer, Istvan Varjas, who patented the first 17 years ago and put them on the market 8-9 years later. Not to copy and not to reveal their trade secrets, bought the components from different companies.
1. No-one called Istvan Varjas (or indeed Istvan Vargas) has ever applied for a patent. Ever. For anything.
2. If they wanted not to reveal their 'trade secrets' they would not have applied for a patent - which gets published. Also anyone could just open the bike up and look at the components.
The writer of that article has so little technical knowledge, I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.
Did you read what LeMond said? Quite why you keep on about patents is beyond me and irrelevant.0 -
Joel, get a grip. Nobody is denying motors exist. You can go buy one yourself right now if you have the money. The real issues are a) the claimed ability of some of these motors to completely avoid detection and b) the supposed widespread use of these motors within the pro peloton. What LeMond said has no bearing on either of those points.
Two points, as this my field of expertise.Joelsim wrote:The creator of scooters was a Hungarian engineer, Istvan Varjas, who patented the first 17 years ago and put them on the market 8-9 years later. Not to copy and not to reveal their trade secrets, bought the components from different companies.
1. No-one called Istvan Varjas (or indeed Istvan Vargas) has ever applied for a patent. Ever. For anything.
2. If they wanted not to reveal their 'trade secrets' they would not have applied for a patent - which gets published. Also anyone could just open the bike up and look at the components.
The writer of that article has so little technical knowledge, I wouldn't trust him to wire a plug.
Did you read what LeMond said? Quite why you keep on about patents is beyond me and irrelevant.
It appears that only this forum doesn't think they have been used. Every other forum I frequent is pretty damn sure they have been used.0 -
Wow, really? Some random people online said so? Why didn't you say so? This changes everything! I certainly can't see anything to argue with there, no sir! It's not like groups of people on the internet have ever been mistaken about anything in the past, so I guess that's this case closed. Why even bother checking the bikes now we have this extreme level of proof? Let's just ban everyone in the peloton preemptively! After all, even if they're not using motors they obviously must be doping the old fashioned way instead, the cheating f*ckers.0
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Wow, really? Some random people online said so? Why didn't you say so? This changes everything! I certainly can't see anything to argue with there, no sir! It's not like groups of people on the internet have ever been mistaken about anything in the past, so I guess that's this case closed. Why even bother checking the bikes now we have this extreme level of proof? Let's just ban everyone in the peloton preemptively! After all, even if they're not using motors they obviously must be doping the old fashioned way instead, the cheating f*ckers.
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Joelsim wrote:It appears that only this forum doesn't think they have been used. Every other forum I frequent is pretty damn sure they have been used.
Hmm.
On at least one of those forums you been howled at for being a lily-livered doping-apologist fanboi.
That should tell you a lot.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
