Motors on bikes (again)

specialgueststar

Seems to be gathering momentum. Yesterday Gilbert, Contador Elissonde Hesjedal Nocentini all had bikes taken at finish line - leaving non podium riders stranded !

They ve been removing seat pins and cranks - surely x rays would be easier ? Maybe on finish line




Suspicions about Contadors Motorilo climb - I can't see anything obvious ??

nic_77

X-rays are pretty bad for your health. I don't suppose the riders would be too happy being bombarded with radiation every day. Mind you, health concerns haven't stopped them doing all kinds of things before now...

frenchfighter

The UCI are checking bikes regularly now as a routine measure. First I recall them doing it was Milan San Remo.

specialgueststar

nic_77 wrote:

X-rays are pretty bad for your health. I don't suppose the riders would be too happy being bombarded with radiation every day. Mind you, health concerns haven't stopped them doing all kinds of things before now...

that was tongue in cheek obviously I mean just the bikes

nic_77

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

nic_77 wrote:

X-rays are pretty bad for your health. I don't suppose the riders would be too happy being bombarded with radiation every day. Mind you, health concerns haven't stopped them doing all kinds of things before now...

that was tongue in cheek obviously I mean just the bikes

Yeah, I sort of figured... but maybe we would be able to pull Bertie up on his BS broken bone stories.

Garry H

Has anybody looked into the effects of x-rays on carbon frames? If they melt in the rain, what chance have they got when bombarded with radiation. Could be a disaster waiting to happen!

The_Boy

They've been doing this from time to time since that video first appeared on YouTube. Helps keep the bottom half of the internet from getting *too* mental, I guess.

norvernrob

Yet still nobody has actually ever seen one of these bikes with a motor in the hub/BB and no cables/batteries stuck all over the frame. Until there's an actual, physical working bike that looks completely normal, with a motor concealed that can produce 30/40/50w of power and above, then it's science fiction.

JA-Q001

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... ery-44345/

Maybe this is not so science fiction

redvision

Tbh I can't imagine any will be found. I think the whole theory is ridiculous.
That said, have the UCI actually stated any likely punishments if any motors are found?
Would they deem it as serious as doping?

ugo.santalucia

redvision wrote:

Would they deem it as serious as doping?

I read somewhere the punishment is worse than in the case of doping... by a similar rule to that you get a much tougher sentence for robbing a bank than you get for killing someone by dangerous driving

DeVlaeminck

NorvernRob wrote:

Yet still nobody has actually ever seen one of these bikes with a motor in the hub/BB and no cables/batteries stuck all over the frame. Until there's an actual, physical working bike that looks completely normal, with a motor concealed that can produce 30/40/50w of power and above, then it's science fiction.

Try google, there are plenty of examples that by simply moving the battery to the seat tube would become exactly what you describe, a normal bike with a concealed motor and power source. The technology exists and given some former riders have made allegations it has been used in races the UCI would be remiss not to make some simple checks.

As for x-rays being simpler - I'm pretty sure you can employ a bike mechanic for an hour cheaper than you can buy an x-ray machine, transport it around and employ someone to operate it.

Escher303

Greg Lemond's thoughts:- http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond- ... ect-motors

norvernrob

DeVlaeminck wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

Yet still nobody has actually ever seen one of these bikes with a motor in the hub/BB and no cables/batteries stuck all over the frame. Until there's an actual, physical working bike that looks completely normal, with a motor concealed that can produce 30/40/50w of power and above, then it's science fiction.

Try google, there are plenty of examples that by simply moving the battery to the seat tube would become exactly what you describe, a normal bike with a concealed motor and power source. The technology exists and given some former riders have made allegations it has been used in races the UCI would be remiss not to make some simple checks.

As for x-rays being simpler - I'm pretty sure you can employ a bike mechanic for an hour cheaper than you can buy an x-ray machine, transport it around and employ someone to operate it.

I have looked, but all I can find are bikes with near-1kg batteries mounted in a saddlebag or bidon, and wires sticking out. Are there any actual bikes with no saddlebag, no bottles, no extra wires sticking out etc with a complete electric setup hidden within the frame/seatpost?

rick_chasey

https://www.electricbike.com/stealth/

So according to this bizarre website - the only stealthy looking ones are very noisy.

Techniques for passing roadies including

2. When you drift pass road bikers, cut the throttle and pedal like hell.
3. If your bike is noisy, do not juice the motor within ear shot of riders you are passing. Sprint pedal way past them then reapply the motor.

ben@31

Contadors bike being taken away for scrutineering, I wonder if they'll find anything?...

frisbee

Escher303 wrote:

Greg Lemond's thoughts:- http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond- ... ect-motors

Its going to be 80%+ efficient, so maybe 10 to 20W of heat, good luck detecting that against baking hot tarmac.

vinnymarsden

Has anyone seen anything like this in the Giro??
Personally I think its utter ball cocks…but who knows….I recall seeing Cancellara just totally ride away from everyone in one of the spring classics about 3yrs ago…..and everyone said he had a motor….yes..its in his chest/legs!!!

tonyf34

theoretically it's possible IF you are really bothered enough, have deep enough pockets and people with the full understanding of what's possible and how.
'wiggle' motion and/or vibration technology to recycle lost energy & convert into electricity is already in use.
1.5mm diameter motors that are the size of a roller bearing are already in medical and aeronautical use.
No wires required to transfer the electricity, a secondary inner 'skin' of carbon fibre would be able to transmit that energy wherever you wanted to use it.
Way too expensive to develop and the wattage tiny in all likelihood but the tech is there, would make it all but impossible to detect even with an X-ray because the only moving parts are the tiny motors which would likely would be contained within a sealed bearing unit.

Hooch1987

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/04/hidde ... they-work/

adr82

Hooch1987 wrote:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/04/hidden-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how-they-work/

Look at the photo of the motor assembly itself in that article. Those motors are only "hidden" as long as you don't pop out the cranks and seatpost, which seems to be exactly what the UCI were doing in the Giro. Only takes a few minutes to do it, and if there's anything remotely like that motor tucked in there where it shouldn't be it's going to be pretty damn obvious. Those motors also still require an external battery, which again is going to be easy to find if you're checking over a frame at very close range. Even if you throw the battery away during the stage, that's not going to hide the hole in the frame.

sherer

it's a sad state of the sport that so much cheating goes on that riders actually think this exists and is in use.

ddraver

There's no point having a weight limit if you don't weigh the bikes

There's no point in having regulations on TT position if you don't measure the bikes

There's no point having regulations on motors in bikes if...

takethehighroad

The UCI obviously believe there is some credence to this, otherwise why spend their time setting out punishments, checking bikes etc?

ddraver

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

The UCI obviously believe there is some credence to this, otherwise why spend their time setting out punishments, checking bikes etc?

Have a look at my post above

takethehighroad

Yeah, it was in reply to yours, but I preferred to write more than just "+1"

ddraver

Ah, misunderstanding then, soz

The practicalities are laughable really but pro cyclists are usually stupid so if no one ever ever checked then some moron would try it on...

dabber

If it turns out that this is going on (perhaps a bit in the future as the technology improves) have the UCI said what the penalty would be for anyone getting caught? I would have thought that it was so indefensible that it would be an instant lifetime ban.

Daz555

Dabber wrote:

If it turns out that this is going on (perhaps a bit in the future as the technology improves) have the UCI said what the penalty would be for anyone getting caught? I would have thought that it was so indefensible that it would be an instant lifetime ban.

I would suspect a regular regime of EPO gets you more watts for longer than one of these micro-motors. Why punish motor abusers more than dopers?

I think both should get lifetime bans but that's another debate.

dabber

Daz555 wrote:

Dabber wrote:

If it turns out that this is going on (perhaps a bit in the future as the technology improves) have the UCI said what the penalty would be for anyone getting caught? I would have thought that it was so indefensible that it would be an instant lifetime ban.

I would suspect a regular regime of EPO gets you more watts for longer than one of these micro-motors. Why punish motor abusers more than dopers?

I think both should get lifetime bans but that's another debate.

"Why punish motor abusers more than dopers?"

Because, unless I'm missing something if you are caught with a motor than can be no ambiguity... no debate about whether your medical ailment prescription was the cause, contaminated meat, naturally high levels etc etc.

Btw, I'm with you on life bans for both actually but the motor doping seems particularly clear cut.

inseine

Dabber wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Dabber wrote:

If it turns out that this is going on (perhaps a bit in the future as the technology improves) have the UCI said what the penalty would be for anyone getting caught? I would have thought that it was so indefensible that it would be an instant lifetime ban.

I would suspect a regular regime of EPO gets you more watts for longer than one of these micro-motors. Why punish motor abusers more than dopers?

I think both should get lifetime bans but that's another debate.

"Why punish motor abusers more than dopers?"

Because, unless I'm missing something if you are caught with a motor than can be no ambiguity... no debate about whether your medical ailment prescription was the cause, contaminated meat, naturally high levels etc etc.

Btw, I'm with you on life bans for both actually but the motor doping seems particularly clear cut.

This is why personally i don't think it's happening. You can at least convince yourself that doping is OK, but this is so clear cut, premeditated cheating. Not to mention that technically I just can't see it.