BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

ddraver

Coopster the 1st wrote:

ddraver wrote:

lack of apprenticeship is a UK problem, not helped by the democratically elected government cutting things like this.

I see where you are going wrong. Governments do not create apprenticeships, businesses do.

Now start again

then the EU is also irrelevant...

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I'm going to question how this is relevant to the EU.

lack of apprenticeship is a UK problem, not helped by the democratically elected government cutting things like this.

That's on us. The UK need to step up.

Agreed - and will add that these jobs would be filled under the "Australian points system"

How about a joined up government policy?

The industry is required to create x number of apprenticeships a year so they can fill jobs under the "Australian points system"

Industry and government working together rather than industry doing solely what is best for itself by choosing the easy option and importing all the labour.

That would help yes, (but is not something for the EU to do). I'm 99% sure that the company I work for in NL had to demonstrate that they had tried to fill my position with a Dutch person before employing me from the UK (where upon I received some really rather good benefits in terms of tax breaks from the Dutch government until they were cut :evil: ). The UK could introduce such a law tomorrow.

Funnily enough I suspect that the director of Moffitt & Robinson Construction, and our democratically elected Conservative Government would be vehement in their opposition to such a law however...

coopster_the_1st

ddraver wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

ddraver wrote:

lack of apprenticeship is a UK problem, not helped by the democratically elected government cutting things like this.

I see where you are going wrong. Governments do not create apprenticeships, businesses do.

Now start again

then the EU is also irrelevant...

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I'm going to question how this is relevant to the EU.

lack of apprenticeship is a UK problem, not helped by the democratically elected government cutting things like this.

That's on us. The UK need to step up.

Agreed - and will add that these jobs would be filled under the "Australian points system"

How about a joined up government policy?

The industry is required to create x number of apprenticeships a year so they can fill jobs under the "Australian points system"

Industry and government working together rather than industry doing solely what is best for itself by choosing the easy option and importing all the labour.

That would help yes, (but is not something for the EU to do). I'm 99% sure that the company I work for in NL had to demonstrate that they had tried to fill my position with a Dutch person before employing me from the UK (where upon I received some really rather good benefits in terms of tax breaks from the Dutch government until they were cut :evil: ). The UK could introduce such a law tomorrow.

Funnily enough I suspect that the director of Moffitt & Robinson Construction, and our democratically elected Conservative Government would be vehement in their opposition to such a law however...

I'm 100% sure you are wrong or EU law has been broken: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourser ... 2.1.3.html

It calls on the Commission and the Member States to ensure the strict enforcement of EU law so that all EU workers are treated equally and not discriminated against as regards access to employment, working conditions, remuneration, dismissal, and social and tax benefits.

No wonder you are so wrong when you are starting from the wrong place. Or working for an employer that is breaking the law?

ddraver

well, I ll ask the HR guy if I see him at the coffee machine tomorrow but I'd say getting the first 30% of my salary tax free for being an experienced expat hire sounds like that law is not as clear cut as you are making out. It's very clearly a massive benefit, without it i would have had no pay increase and so probably not moved...

However it still doesn't prevent the UK government incentivising or even forcing a company to run an apprenticeship scheme so the EU is still not relevant to the argument.

Edit - To clarify -

the expatriate must be an employee who is hired from abroad or transferred by an employer to work in the Netherlands and who has specific expertise that is scarce or absent on the job market in the Netherlands.

http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling

So not really relevant to this case

Still nothing to do with the EU though...

gaffer_slow

Veronese68 wrote:

Interesting piece about when BoJo was a journalist in Brussells here. Hardly surprising though.

~90% of Leave voters I pity, and it would be tragic if the Leave side won. They are being sold lies, by vested interest and those with politically expedient motivations - and they are falling for it hook line and sinker.

It wouldn't surprise me if the heads of Vote Leave (BJ, Gove and Cummings) intend (in the event of a Leave win) to challenge Cameron's leadership - and take over Brexit negotiations secret intending the result of negotiations to be;
Remaining "IN" the EU but with major concessions that will mostly concentrate on opting out of worker protections and financial services regulation (and throwing a bone to the hordes of 'Leavers' by having some pseudo limitations on free movement). It is a risky business, but i think they are relying on the EU countries to not want the UK to leave and will use a Brexit 'win' as leverage for their free-market neo-liberal agenda.

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

ddraver wrote:

lack of apprenticeship is a UK problem, not helped by the democratically elected government cutting things like this.

I see where you are going wrong. Governments do not create apprenticeships, businesses do.

Now start again

It is the Govt's policy to increase apprenticeships - these things are very easy to find

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... vision.pdf

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

well, I ll ask the HR guy if I see him at the coffee machine tomorrow but I'd say getting the first 30% of my salary tax free for being an experienced expat hire sounds like that law is not as clear cut as you are making out. It's very clearly a massive benefit, without it i would have had no pay increase and so probably not moved...

However it still doesn't prevent the UK government incentivising or even forcing a company to run an apprenticeship scheme so the EU is still not relevant to the argument.

Edit - To clarify -

the expatriate must be an employee who is hired from abroad or transferred by an employer to work in the Netherlands and who has specific expertise that is scarce or absent on the job market in the Netherlands.

http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling

So not really relevant to this case

Still nothing to do with the EU though...

That's not very difficult to circumvent however.

ddraver

No, I'm sure...

But I ll leave the employment stuff to you.

ddraver

Surrey Commuter wrote:

It is the Govt's policy to increase apprenticeships - these things are very easy to find

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... vision.pdf

A significant factor in our poor productivity is the low level of skills in the workforce. We rank in the bottom four OECD countries for the literacy and numeracy skills of our 16-24 year olds

We also perform poorly on intermediate professional and technical skills, and are forecast to fall to the bottom five OECD countries for intermediate skills by 2020

Bloody Europeans teaching their kids properly...

rick_chasey

What's wrong with immigration kids?

I improved my school's average grades.

Is that a bad thing?

ddraver

I was hoping my sarcasm would be more clear than it was...

I'm with you. however, Coop seems to suggest we should prevent properly trained/educated people from entering the country becasue we are unwilling to train/educate our own people to the same standard.

bendertherobot

Gove and Johnson have upset John Barnes now...

bendertherobot

Gove to leave if leave lose. Official.

bompington

Rick Chasey wrote:

What's wrong with immigration kids?

I improved my school's average grades.

Is that a bad thing?

It's pretty well established (i.e. by proper research, not an internet FACT) that immigrant kids push up the standards in schools - until the point where the immigrant community is large enough to become homogeneous.

But there would appear to be some evidence that they don't always understand the nuances of British sarcasm.

Anonymous

Just 731 days to go in the EU now guys

Bo Duke

Interesting article in the Spanish press... if the UK does vote to leave, successive governments can only blame themselves really...

One of the most revealing items in this study is the link between knowledge about the EU and support for it. In the case of the highly euro-skeptic United Kingdom respondents asked a few technical questions as part of the survey showed little understanding about the union and how it works. In Germany and Italy, more than 80% of respondents showed a good working knowledge of the EU.

The German study also finds that 55% of Europeans support even greater integration, a figure that soars to 78% in Spain and 71% in Italy.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/06/20/ine ... 61691.html

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What's wrong with immigration kids?

I improved my school's average grades.

Is that a bad thing?

It's pretty well established (i.e. by proper research, not an internet FACT) that immigrant kids push up the standards in schools - until the point where the immigrant community is large enough to become homogeneous.

But there would appear to be some evidence that they don't always understand the nuances of British sarcasm.

True story.

rick_chasey

bendertherobot wrote:

Gove to leave if leave lose. Official.

What an incentive!

pblakeney

Rick Chasey wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Gove to leave if leave lose. Official.

What an incentive!

Not well thought through on his part.

ddraver

Bo Duke wrote:

Interesting article in the Spanish press... if the UK does vote to leave, successive governments can only blame themselves really...

One of the most revealing items in this study is the link between knowledge about the EU and support for it. In the case of the highly euro-skeptic United Kingdom respondents asked a few technical questions as part of the survey showed little understanding about the union and how it works. In Germany and Italy, more than 80% of respondents showed a good working knowledge of the EU.

The German study also finds that 55% of Europeans support even greater integration, a figure that soars to 78% in Spain and 71% in Italy.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/06/20/ine ... 61691.html

He won't becasue he will be back to gloating Camoron, but one of the useful things that could be done to calm the flames of this recession if (god willing) Remain wins would be to create something that helps explain the EU a bit better...

gaffer_slow

when we have had European (mainland) visitors, they are astonished by the lack of knowledge and media coverage of the European Parliament.

surrey_commuter

ddraver wrote:

Bo Duke wrote:

Interesting article in the Spanish press... if the UK does vote to leave, successive governments can only blame themselves really...

One of the most revealing items in this study is the link between knowledge about the EU and support for it. In the case of the highly euro-skeptic United Kingdom respondents asked a few technical questions as part of the survey showed little understanding about the union and how it works. In Germany and Italy, more than 80% of respondents showed a good working knowledge of the EU.

The German study also finds that 55% of Europeans support even greater integration, a figure that soars to 78% in Spain and 71% in Italy.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/06/20/ine ... 61691.html

He won't becasue he will be back to gloating Camoron, but one of the useful things that could be done to calm the flames of this recession if (god willing) Remain wins would be to create something that helps explain the EU a bit better...

After the level of this debate I would say a huge % of the British public are beyond hope. Who is going to teach them, and expert?

surrey_commuter

Morning Coopster
In the light of our universal agreement with Professor Dougan what is your opinion of the utter rubbish spoken by Boris and Co in the debate last night. In particular their claim that 60% of laws come from the EU and that we could negotiate 50 trade agreements (the prof says we have the capacity to do 1 or 2 at a time)

Anonymous

Surrey Commuter wrote:

After the level of this debate I would say a huge percentage of the British public are beyond hope. Who is going to teach them?, an expert?

Think I FTFY

surrey_commuter

Carbonator wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

After the level of this debate I would say a huge percentage of the British public are beyond hope. Who is going to teach them?, an expert?

Think I FTFY

perhaps a superfluous comma?

kingstongraham

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Morning Coopster
In the light of our universal agreement with Professor Dougan what is your opinion of the utter rubbish spoken by Boris and Co in the debate last night. In particular their claim that 60% of laws come from the EU and that we could negotiate 50 trade agreements (the prof says we have the capacity to do 1 or 2 at a time)

The 50 countries the EU has trade deals with include Syria, Haiti and Zimbabwe. The only "big deal" countries would be Mexico and South Korea.

I reckon the UK could do a deal with St Kitts and Nevis or Barbados.

coopster_the_1st

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Morning Coopster
In the light of our universal agreement with Professor Dougan what is your opinion of the utter rubbish spoken by Boris and Co in the debate last night. In particular their claim that 60% of laws come from the EU and that we could negotiate 50 trade agreements (the prof says we have the capacity to do 1 or 2 at a time)

Easy answer on the laws - 35 seconds of your time needed - Jeremy Paxman - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_SWwDX3O0

And what timing you have to raise trade negotiations

German industry says it would be “very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on Britain in the event it votes to leave the European Union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-36561059 (bottom of the page(06:07), no individual article for some reason. I would have thought this was important information)

So common sense will prevail despite the scaremongering about this matter

surrey_commuter

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Morning Coopster
In the light of our universal agreement with Professor Dougan what is your opinion of the utter rubbish spoken by Boris and Co in the debate last night. In particular their claim that 60% of laws come from the EU and that we could negotiate 50 trade agreements (the prof says we have the capacity to do 1 or 2 at a time)

Easy answer on the laws - 35 seconds of your time needed - Jeremy Paxman - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_SWwDX3O0

And what timing you have to raise trade negotiations

German industry says it would be “very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on Britain in the event it votes to leave the European Union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-36561059 (bottom of the page(06:07), no individual article for some reason. I would have thought this was important information)

So common sense will prevail despite the scaremongering about this matter

is that your way of saying you are now dismissing Prof Dougan?

surrey_commuter

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Morning Coopster
In the light of our universal agreement with Professor Dougan what is your opinion of the utter rubbish spoken by Boris and Co in the debate last night. In particular their claim that 60% of laws come from the EU and that we could negotiate 50 trade agreements (the prof says we have the capacity to do 1 or 2 at a time)

The 50 countries the EU has trade deals with include Syria, Haiti and Zimbabwe. The only "big deal" countries would be Mexico and South Korea.

I reckon the UK could do a deal with St Kitts and Nevis or Barbados.

but we would have to sort out the EU first so this would all be down the track

ddraver

Coopster the 1st wrote:

So common sense will prevail despite the scaremongering about this matter

I love the way you re still trying to pretend it's only the Remain campaign "scaremongering"

You must be the only person left in the country...

coopster_the_1st

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Morning Coopster
In the light of our universal agreement with Professor Dougan what is your opinion of the utter rubbish spoken by Boris and Co in the debate last night. In particular their claim that 60% of laws come from the EU and that we could negotiate 50 trade agreements (the prof says we have the capacity to do 1 or 2 at a time)

Easy answer on the laws - 35 seconds of your time needed - Jeremy Paxman - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_SWwDX3O0

And what timing you have to raise trade negotiations

German industry says it would be “very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on Britain in the event it votes to leave the European Union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-36561059 (bottom of the page(06:07), no individual article for some reason. I would have thought this was important information)

So common sense will prevail despite the scaremongering about this matter

is that your way of saying you are now dismissing Prof Dougan?

Are you disputing the figure of 59% laws coming from the EU in the period 2010-2013. Are you saying they have been getting less involved in our law making in recent time?