BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

mrfpb

Rick Chasey wrote:

Curious to know how you screw the world by trading.

You know what trading is right? One person or company buying from another?

Gross oversimplification of the week!

rick_chasey

Is it? How?

Takes two sides to trade.

mr_goo

Rick Chasey wrote:

Goldman didn't create CDOs no.

Nor did they precipate bad lending to borrowers ill-equipped to pay back - Goldman don't hand out mortgages.

Goldman had a few exotic deals with some gov'ts that in the event of a crash were very profitable for them and expensive for states, but then the opposite was true for if the market went well.

JP were the biggest structured credit guys of the IB world, but they're a WASP bank so people mind less. Same with Merrills or MS. I wonder why Goldman gets picked out?

Goldman were no better, no worse than your typical Wall Street back.

https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-59.htm

rick_chasey

Yeah all the IBs got fines.

Here's Merrills: http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/dealboo ... /?referer=

Let's remember they paid themselves bonuses after a state bailout. Why does that irk you more than Goldman? And why are you so upset on behalf of investors?

Here's MS doing the same: http://www.law360.com/articles/742176/m ... r-500m-cdo

Here's JP: https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2011/2011-131.htm

So why are you picking on Goldman goo?

kingstongraham

Is this pertinent?

rick_chasey

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

surrey_commuter

mrfpb wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Curious to know how you screw the world by trading.

You know what trading is right? One person or company buying from another?

Gross oversimplification of the week!

If somebody made money by betting that Sterling would appreciate then somebody else had to be on the other side of the trade

mamba80

Ballysmate wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

also, referendums are a bit of an anomaly in a representative democracy, Parliament really isnt there to carry out the will of the people, or we d never have got rid of capital punishment or slavery, we certainly would nt have gone to war against Hitler.
we have a GE, vote based on their manifestos etc and then they get on with it, if they mess up or we are fickle, kick them out 5 years later.

its also odd that ALL of the referendums the UK has ever had, have been enacted by Tory governments, dont they trust their own judgement?

Like the manifesto pledging to hold a referendum?

yep thats the problem, we cant undo this (though a few tories seem to be trying lol) 17m are controlling the destiny of everyone else, no come back no accountability.

Bally, i suspect that very few people voted conservative for this pledge alone, they stuck it in there to fill in a few lines..... they ve form for this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... visor.html

Ben6899

Mr Goo wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

So heartening to see that the banking industry, currency traders and speculators are benefiting (when don't they?) from yesterdays court decision. Capitalism! Don't you just love it.

There's nothing stopping you from speculating yourself.

Having access to funds and the fact I am not corrupt or a crook significantly reduces my chances or most normal every day Joes from making lots of money.

You only need a pound to start speculating.

Speculating is not a criminal act.

mr_goo

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

Are you now inferring that I'm anti semetic as well as islamaphobic? If you are. Jog on. It was the most high profile bank in the f**k up of last recession. I could quite easily have picked JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America.

Ben6899

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

Are you now inferring that I'm anti semetic as well as islamaphobic? If you please jog on. I could quite easily have picked JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America.

But you didn't.

mr_goo

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

Are you now inferring that I'm anti semetic as well as islamaphobic? If you please jog on. I could quite easily have picked JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America.

But you didn't.

Huh?

rick_chasey

No you didn't.

Why do you think islamophobia is OK but anti Semitic isn't?

Ben6899

Mr Goo wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

Are you now inferring that I'm anti semetic as well as islamaphobic? If you please jog on. I could quite easily have picked JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America.

But you didn't.

Huh?

... pick "JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America".

Just an observation.

pinno

Let's get things into a little perspective.

Rick Chasey wrote:

So we have this vitriol.

We have fear of "migrants" from the Middle East and islamophobia is socially acceptable.

Some have 'fear' of migrants. Not me. None in my social circle.
Islamophobia is socially acceptable? You'll have to prove that one whilst avoiding Red Top rags.

Rick Chasey wrote:

The single biggest political event in Britain is held with that backdrop on the euphemistic term of "controlling the borders" with posters of middle eastern migrants. Presumably that is meant euphemistically and not literally since I don't those voters would be happy with "controlling" 2million refugees coming in versus "uncontrolled" refugees of 50,000.

Do you think that Brexit hinged on that single issue?

Rick Chasey wrote:

We have scaremongering stories of refugees and asylum seekers daily on the front of the most popular papers. They've been compared to rats and rapists.

Just like the discriminatory and violent fascists and communists we see violent rhetoric against the "elites". We have a polarisation of politics just as in the 30s after its financial crash of '29 with a liberal political class unable to steer through it if they have not already been hijacked by extremists.

No more than the rhetoric used by Enoch Powell in the 70's when there was anti-black demonstrations in the street - I don't see any of that happening here. The BNP is a far smaller organisation than what exists today.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Only this time the vitriol is against the elite and Muslims rather than the elite and Jews (though, depending on how euphemistic Mr Goo was being about "speculators" we'll have to see.)

This vitriol stems from a pro Brexit paper. Of course they are going to be scathing - it piddles on their xenophobic chips (and sell papers).

Rick Chasey wrote:

Britain has a history of rational politics so it does not fear the dangers of the irrational since it has not experienced it.

Perhaps this is because the Brits overall are pretty reticent and on the whole, respect the rule of law and democracy. Your suggestion is that the irrational has not been experienced by default. After all, Britain is one of the few countries in Europe that never had a revolution. There's organic reasons for that, without going into too much detail.

Rick Chasey wrote:

This is all very irrational and we are heading in the direction of a dark and horrible place.

We need to ensure we steer away from the path. Fast.

That's on a level and not dissimilar to the fear mongering of the Ukippers and hardline Brexiters. How ironic?

The one's shouting their mouths off and being insulting to other nationalities are in a minority in amongst whingeing poms who might read The Mail. The EU referendum gave some of the closet xenophobes a platform. In the light of how messy, complicated and uncertain the whole process is, those closet xenophobes are probably fewer than before the referendum. I think UKIP's apparent implosion is testament to that.

If UKIP can't get together, maybe it's because the useless one policy baskets had no idea what to do in the event of a Yes vote. You'd think they would be explicitly campaigning for our rules and all that bollox but they aren't. Their lack of depth one the one hand is grating but on the other, exposes all the flawed ideas and values they spouted.

If there are extremists, what is the political vessel and platform for their views bar one or two newspapers. It doesn't add up to a hill of beans, let alone a 3rd Reich storming of parliament.

rick_chasey

It's curious when you search Goo's posts.

He worries about Islamic terrorism, yet not about domestic terrorism.

Which of the two was the killing of a member of parliament during the Brexit referendum?

Can we hear more vociferous calls from mr goo about his fears of anti-EU far right anti Islam groups?

Stevo_666

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

No.

mr_goo

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

Are you now inferring that I'm anti semetic as well as islamaphobic? If you please jog on. I could quite easily have picked JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche

But you didn't.

Huh?

... pick "JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America".

Just an observation.

Chasey has a real chip on his shoulder with me. Historically I've stated that Islam has no place in a modern progressive society which has gender equality and accepts the LBGT community as equals. I stand by this. I have no acceptance of any organised religion as it's detrimental to the progression of humanity. He cannot let this go. Now I'm anti semite in his eyes merely for singling out Goldman Sachs. If I'd highlighted Deutsche Bank I'm sure he could have labelled me racist.

Ben6899

Mr Goo wrote:

I've stated that Islam has no place in a modern progressive society... I stand by this.

Wow.

Jez mon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

mrfpb wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Curious to know how you screw the world by trading.

You know what trading is right? One person or company buying from another?

Gross oversimplification of the week!

If somebody made money by betting that Sterling would appreciate then somebody else had to be on the other side of the trade

But wouldn't that make all trading a zero sum game? Which as far as I am aware it isn't?

Either way. In dollar terms we all got pay rises when it was announced that brexit had to be debated in parliament. Yet the leave voters are upset!

Bobbinogs

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

I've stated that Islam has no place in a modern progressive society... I stand by this.

Wow.

To be fair, the full quote is:

Historically I've stated that Islam has no place in a modern progressive society which has gender equality and accepts the LBGT community as equals. I stand by this. I have no acceptance of any organised religion as it's detrimental to the progression of humanity.

I think there is a lot of common sense in that. Islam appears to despise everything that a progressive society holds dear and then relies on the fact that a progressive society also tolerates all views, even those that would ideally see a progressive society go back to the medieval ages.

Jez mon

To be fair. So does fundamentalist Christianity.

TheBigBean

Goldman Sachs has a pretty long rap sheet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_S ... troversies

That's not to say that JP Morgan and the rest should not face criticism as well.

Goldman Sachs also seems to have its fingers in the 1MDB pie.

Ben6899

Bobbinogs wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

I've stated that Islam has no place in a modern progressive society... I stand by this.

Wow.

To be fair, the full quote is:

Historically I've stated that Islam has no place in a modern progressive society which has gender equality and accepts the LBGT community as equals. I stand by this. I have no acceptance of any organised religion as it's detrimental to the progression of humanity.

I think there is a lot of common sense in that. Islam appears to despise everything that a progressive society holds dear and then relies on the fact that a progressive society also tolerates all views, even those that would ideally see a progressive society go back to the medieval ages.

I don't care what his reasons are.

Bobbinogs

Jez mon wrote:

To be fair. So does fundamentalist Christianity.

Yes, I would agree with that. There are a lot of radical religions that seem to thrive on a message of intolerance. I guess the big question then is, "is it right to be intolerant of intolerance"? For some, the answer is "yes" and I can see why they arrive at that conclusion. After all, if the intolerance of something like LBGT comes from the BNP we all jump up and down and say it is wrong...and yet if the intolerance of something like LBGT comes from a bonafide religion then we all seem to think that is ok because cultural tolerance is good.

mamba80

ISiL isnt Islam, don't confuse the two.

Plenty of secular societies have been guilty of some horrific acts

TheBigBean

Bobbinogs wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

To be fair. So does fundamentalist Christianity.

Yes, I would agree with that. There are a lot of radical religions that seem to thrive on a message of intolerance. I guess the big question then is, "is it right to be intolerant of intolerance"? For some, the answer is "yes" and I can see why they arrive at that conclusion. After all, if the intolerance of something like LBGT comes from the BNP we all jump up and down and say it is wrong...and yet if the intolerance of something like LBGT comes from a bonafide religion then we all seem to think that is ok because cultural tolerance is good.

Glenn Greenwald did a good piece at the time of the Charlie Hebdo attacks. You can believe in freedom of speech without liking everything that is said.

https://theintercept.com/2015/01/09/sol ... -cartoons/

rjsterry

Pinno wrote:

Let's get things into a little perspective...

...After all, Britain is one of the few countries in Europe that never had a revolution.

We did: the English Civil War, which in terms of casualties per head of population was bloodier than WW1. Granted, we did decide it wasn't such a good idea and reverted to a monarchy. The next one in 1688 was a lot more 'British'.

surrey_commuter

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Is this pertinent?

Got to call out BS when I see it.

Oh and I do feel that Goldman feel more grief from the Goo's of this world, vs other US IBs because they're tradionally a more Jewish bank.

Are you now inferring that I'm anti semetic as well as islamaphobic? If you are. Jog on. It was the most high profile bank in the f**k up of last recession. I could quite easily have picked JP Morgan Chase. Deutsche Bank. Bank of America.

The most high profile bank was Lehman Bros.

I would guess he picked GS because it is the bogeyman. Now why the press have picked on them is anybody's guesss but mine is tall poppy syndrome.

pinno

[Pedant mode on] Is Civil war 'revolution'? [Pedant mode off]

If Mr Goo says that all fundamentalist religion doesn't have a place in a progressive society, than i'll agree with him.