BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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The UK might not be but a sizeable part of Westminster is.TheBigBean said:I don't think the UK is aiming for a no deal Brexit as a win.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That's why Ireland pushed so hard for Brexit.john80 said:The UK is better placed than the EU to realise that the good Friday agreement is essentially a truce. It allows the people of Northern Ireland to choose one or both Irish and UK nationalities and the benefits they may bring. It allows the head bangers to think they have won and giving those in charge positions of political respectability for the benefit. The Irish think they can have a unified Ireland in the long term through making Brexit a pain in the censored . I personally think the EU will make enough missteps and the unionists are mental enough for that not to happen. Personally I think that the UK government and English populations are pretty ambivalent to whether NI stays or not.
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So if I can summarise, you think that Frost is playing a long term blinder to maintain the GFA and the UK and that keeping the UK whole is not a consideration for him.john80 said:The UK is better placed than the EU to realise that the good Friday agreement is essentially a truce. It allows the people of Northern Ireland to choose one or both Irish and UK nationalities and the benefits they may bring. It allows the head bangers to think they have won and giving those in charge positions of political respectability for the benefit. The Irish think they can have a unified Ireland in the long term through making Brexit a pain in the censored . I personally think the EU will make enough missteps and the unionists are mental enough for that not to happen. Personally I think that the UK government and English populations are pretty ambivalent to whether NI stays or not.
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kingstongraham said:
"I signed this nonsense because it was expedient but I'm not intending to abide with it. And you say I'm not a trustworthy partner? You're the ones who can't be trusted for making me do it."
There is a part of me that admires the sheer chutzpah of his position. This is tempered by the fact that he achieves it by ignoring societal norms.
Does anybody else think that Boris Frost’s behaviour could be explained by autism?0 -
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'It was all very careless and confused. They were careless people'“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Is it not just blame shifting? Pin Brexit related woes on the EU as much as possible?
I don’t think it’s much more sophisticated than that.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/12/rip-it-up-and-start-again-frost-numbs-the-senses-with-spoiled-teenager-act
Crace not really having to do much with the material he's gotThe problem was this. It wasn’t that the UK hadn’t anticipated there being a few teething problems with the Northern Ireland protocol: effectively creating a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland had been the only way to preserve the principles of the Good Friday agreement.
The trouble lay with the fact that the EU was breaking the spirit of the NI protocol by going to the trouble of implementing it. No one in the UK had imagined the EU would take such a purist approach to the treaties it signed. The UK negotiators had assumed they could safely ignore the bits they found inconvenient or troublesome. In a surreal coda, Frost closed by accusing the EU of acting in bad faith by applying the treaty in the form in which it had been agreed.
[...] It was intolerable that the NI protocol should be arbitrated by the European court of justice even though that had been provided for in the treaty. Frost didn’t want to provoke a trade war by triggering article 16 but if the EU didn’t do exactly what we wanted then they would have to suffer the consequences. And even if they did play along with us they would have to be prepared for us to change our minds again at a later stage. Because what Brexit really meant was that the UK could do whatever it liked whenever it wanted.0 -
And to think Stevo was claiming Brexit was done and dusted. We haven't even fully implemented it yet and already we're telling the world we need to go back and start at the beginning.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I had not seen this before from 2016: https://issuu.com/portland_comms/docs/brexitbooklet_online_3_?e=7459321/36134988
In which David Frost lays out what he would do if he were a brexit negotiator for the UK. Definitely worth a read.0 -
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This thread basically saying they negotiated in bad faith
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Meanwhile business groups in NI liking what they're hearing from the EU“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Ballsy move to admit you lied to get elected“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not when it has so few consequences.tailwindhome said:Ballsy move to admit you lied to get elected
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'd be a lot more sympathetic on the once in a blue moon constitutional crisis issue if it wasn't a crisis that they had actively campaigned for.
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Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?0 -
TBF Felixstowe has been in absolute chaos for the last couple of years. We get all of our containers through Southampton now.rick_chasey said:
They had major issues with their computer systems pre-covid and have never really recovered.0 -
My point was that bad faith is the only reasonable explanation for wanting to overturn a treaty that has only just been agreed and was loudly proclaimed as a great deal a few months ago. So we knew this before Frost opened his mouth. He confirmed it with the nonsense about signing under pressure and in haste. Cummings is just trying to claim some of the glory/notoriety.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?
Die hard Brexiters already believe that the EU negotiated in bad faith because they didn't agree to everything we asked, so this is just confirmation for them.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The reaction on here is overwhelming in favour of anything done by the EU. For example, you could easily argue that today's announcement by the EU demonstrates it has been acting in bad faith on the protocol. It's not long ago that the EU was taking enforcement action over a failure to comply with something now deemed not necessary.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?0 -
I find it remarkable that you've got the UK throwing their toys about the pram for the thing they signed up to less than a year ago, the senior advisor publicly admitting that it was negotiated in bad faith and you see that the fact the EU is giving up some ground as a bad thing.TheBigBean said:
The reaction on here is overwhelming in favour of anything done by the EU. For example, you could easily argue that today's announcement by the EU demonstrates it has been acting in bad faith on the protocol. It's not long ago that the EU was taking enforcement action over a failure to comply with something now deemed not necessary.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?
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TheBigBean said:
The reaction on here is overwhelming in favour of anything done by the EU. For example, you could easily argue that today's announcement by the EU demonstrates it has been acting in bad faith on the protocol. It's not long ago that the EU was taking enforcement action over a failure to comply with something now deemed not necessary.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?
That reaction might be because pretty much everything that Johnson and his team have done has turned out to be either mendacious or incompetent, right from the "no-one's suggesting we leave the Single Market". Had the referendum been sold on what we've ended up with, we'd still be in the EU.0 -
Of course it is not a bad thing, the bad bit is that it has taken this long and therefore created new issues.rick_chasey said:
I find it remarkable that you've got the UK throwing their toys about the pram for the thing they signed up to less than a year ago, the senior advisor publicly admitting that it was negotiated in bad faith and you see that the fact the EU is giving up some ground as a bad thing.TheBigBean said:
The reaction on here is overwhelming in favour of anything done by the EU. For example, you could easily argue that today's announcement by the EU demonstrates it has been acting in bad faith on the protocol. It's not long ago that the EU was taking enforcement action over a failure to comply with something now deemed not necessary.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?
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Being negative about the competence and honesty of the UK representatives doesn't equal thinking the EU is perfect.TheBigBean said:
The reaction on here is overwhelming in favour of anything done by the EU. For example, you could easily argue that today's announcement by the EU demonstrates it has been acting in bad faith on the protocol. It's not long ago that the EU was taking enforcement action over a failure to comply with something now deemed not necessary.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?
Knowing the EU always negotiates by tying the process up in rules they have made themselves until you give in is part of what you should know you need to deal with. Moaning that the EU are acting like the EU is laughable.1 -
Equally, I don't think anyone (including the EU) is surprised that the UK isn't intending to keep to what they signed. They made it clear enough. This is another step in the negotiation process.0
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Why does the negotiating in bad faith get a pass from you?TheBigBean said:
Of course it is not a bad thing, the bad bit is that it has taken this long and therefore created new issues.rick_chasey said:
I find it remarkable that you've got the UK throwing their toys about the pram for the thing they signed up to less than a year ago, the senior advisor publicly admitting that it was negotiated in bad faith and you see that the fact the EU is giving up some ground as a bad thing.TheBigBean said:
The reaction on here is overwhelming in favour of anything done by the EU. For example, you could easily argue that today's announcement by the EU demonstrates it has been acting in bad faith on the protocol. It's not long ago that the EU was taking enforcement action over a failure to comply with something now deemed not necessary.rick_chasey said:
Because it's one thing negotiating in bad faith, it's another publicly admitting to it.rjsterry said:
Not sure we needed galaxy brain to tell us that. And by the way how does he manage to be so mind numbingly verbose on a medium like twitter?rick_chasey said:
If this was the EU doing that what would the reaction on here be?0
