BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Anybody considering moving to France?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    ballysmate said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Do you not think it surprising that the man who negotiated on Brexit behalf of the EU should suddenly become rather anti-immigration?

    From outside the EU? No. That perk is for members only.
    But has ramifications for free movement never mind Schengen.
    Free movement was only ever for members only.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    Understood the eu's position. It might be a tricky concept, but I have had no opinion on barnier until today.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
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    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    People pointing out proportionality does not mean they support the EU
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Let's urge the French to vote for the moderate candidate. Vote LePen! :)
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    edited May 2021
    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    People pointing out proportionality does not mean they support the EU
    Maybe some did do that. Doesn't change my point though.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2021
    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    People pointing out proportionality does not mean they support the EU
    Maybe some did do that. Doesn't change my point though.
    What is your point?

    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I don't get quite why this is so exciting to you. It's a terrible policy and one that will exacerbate the problems an aging population will face.
    _
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    People starting to come round to the idea that a skills based immigration system is best of all solutions on the basis that you have to have some sort of system. Or are we still advocating the EU racist approach of come on in Polish but you Indians get to the back of the queue. But I am a fully qualified doctor with a young family. Stand aside we have a low skills car washer willing to work in modern slavery. It is like a comedy sketch of stupidity.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    john80 said:

    People starting to come round to the idea that a skills based immigration system is best of all solutions on the basis that you have to have some sort of system. Or are we still advocating the EU racist approach of come on in Polish but you Indians get to the back of the queue. But I am a fully qualified doctor with a young family. Stand aside we have a low skills car washer willing to work in modern slavery. It is like a comedy sketch of stupidity.

    Do you think it's binary?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    People starting to come round to the idea that a skills based immigration system is best of all solutions on the basis that you have to have some sort of system. Or are we still advocating the EU racist approach of come on in Polish but you Indians get to the back of the queue. But I am a fully qualified doctor with a young family. Stand aside we have a low skills car washer willing to work in modern slavery. It is like a comedy sketch of stupidity.

    Do you think it's binary?
    That is exactly what it is

    SteveO hates the UK so Rick loves the EU
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:



    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I

    Barnier was playing politics in his role for the EU. He hasn't only just started. It was one big act of self promotion.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Is Brexit all about immigration again?

    Everything comes back round again eventually.

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Except from Ireland, obviously.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    kingstongraham said:

    Except from Ireland, obviously.

    That is what I really don’t get. Can it really be because the sort of person who frets about immigration still sees Ireland as part of us.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    surrey_commuter said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Except from Ireland, obviously.

    That is what I really don’t get. Can it really be because the sort of person who frets about immigration still sees Ireland as part of us.
    The Brexit voters that I know certainly have this view.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    surrey_commuter said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Except from Ireland, obviously.

    That is what I really don’t get. Can it really be because the sort of person who frets about immigration still sees Ireland as part of us.
    It's the unbreakable commitment to no border of any kind in the Irish Sea.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    People pointing out proportionality does not mean they support the EU
    Maybe some did do that. Doesn't change my point though.
    What is your point?

    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I don't get quite why this is so exciting to you. It's a terrible policy and one that will exacerbate the problems an aging population will face.
    I'm not particularly excited, just thought it was interesting and was wondering what brought this on with Barnier. I've explained my point above.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    People starting to come round to the idea that a skills based immigration system is best of all solutions on the basis that you have to have some sort of system. Or are we still advocating the EU racist approach of come on in Polish but you Indians get to the back of the queue. But I am a fully qualified doctor with a young family. Stand aside we have a low skills car washer willing to work in modern slavery. It is like a comedy sketch of stupidity.

    Do you think it's binary?
    It is the EU's problem now as we have left. They can't defend their current racist immigration policy anymore that we could when we were in the EU. What Barnier is proposing is flat out racist and should be called out as such.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    john80 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    People starting to come round to the idea that a skills based immigration system is best of all solutions on the basis that you have to have some sort of system. Or are we still advocating the EU racist approach of come on in Polish but you Indians get to the back of the queue. But I am a fully qualified doctor with a young family. Stand aside we have a low skills car washer willing to work in modern slavery. It is like a comedy sketch of stupidity.

    Do you think it's binary?
    It is the EU's problem now as we have left. They can't defend their current racist immigration policy anymore that we could when we were in the EU. What Barnier is proposing is flat out racist and should be called out as such.
    The EU doesn't have a racist immigration policy. But Barnier's most definitely is racist far beyond the usual dog whistle.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    john80 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    People starting to come round to the idea that a skills based immigration system is best of all solutions on the basis that you have to have some sort of system. Or are we still advocating the EU racist approach of come on in Polish but you Indians get to the back of the queue. But I am a fully qualified doctor with a young family. Stand aside we have a low skills car washer willing to work in modern slavery. It is like a comedy sketch of stupidity.

    Do you think it's binary?
    It is the EU's problem now as we have left. They can't defend their current racist immigration policy anymore that we could when we were in the EU. What Barnier is proposing is flat out racist and should be called out as such.
    This does touch upon an interesting point about the disparate nature of Brexit voters. A certain % of them would have done so to make it easier for immigrants from poor rural parts of Pakistan/Bangladesh. Whereas the people who march in the street to deport the ones already here would also have voted for Brexit
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    I think people were pointing out that we were the ones who chose to leave and that there was no onus on the EU to grant us concessions. Ultimately Barnier was doing a better job on behalf of his "client" than Davis and co. were managing for theirs.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:



    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I

    Barnier was playing politics in his role for the EU. He hasn't only just started. It was one big act of self promotion.
    Well obviously. I'm bemused as to why Stevo thinks there is some change.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:



    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I

    Barnier was playing politics in his role for the EU. He hasn't only just started. It was one big act of self promotion.
    Not quite sure why you felt the need to point out the obvious?
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    edited May 2021
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Do you not think it surprising that the man who negotiated on Brexit behalf of the EU should suddenly become rather anti-immigration?

    From outside the EU? No. That perk is for members only.
    He is proposing stopping all non-EU immigration into France. Pretty sure anyone proposing the equivalent for the UK in recent years would have been labelled a racist.
    Quite possibly. It's a stupid idea that is not in France's interests, but probably wins a few votes. All very familiar 😉
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:



    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I

    Barnier was playing politics in his role for the EU. He hasn't only just started. It was one big act of self promotion.
    Not quite sure why you felt the need to point out the obvious?
    You wrote this which implied to me that you thought he wasn't playing politics in his role for the EU.

    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo_666 said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    That's not what I remember. What I remember is that people thought the EU was just protecting their own interests as is their right and it was Barnier's job to present that position.
    You're making a different point there. People were supporting the EU on here.
    People pointing out proportionality does not mean they support the EU
    Maybe some did do that. Doesn't change my point though.
    What is your point?

    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I don't get quite why this is so exciting to you. It's a terrible policy and one that will exacerbate the problems an aging population will face.
    I'm not particularly excited, just thought it was interesting and was wondering what brought this on with Barnier. I've explained my point above.
    The political environment in France? It has shifted significantly rightwards to the point where various forms of nativism are not just tolerated but are considered to be required positions for 'centre right' candidates.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    Stevo_666 said:

    Pross said:

    I can't recall anyone on here regarding Barnier highly. People did however point out he was negotiating for the EU so his actions had to be viewed with that in mind.

    Quite a few people seemed to support his/the EU's position during the negotiations, so I can only imagine they thought he was very wise and competent given that he was negotiating for the other side.
    I think he was competent at negotiating within the mandate he had. Mainly that is in comparison to the utterly unambitious approach from the UK side which seemed more concerned with what we didn't want than what we did.

    That's a long, long way from being some sort of Barnier fanboi.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2021
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:



    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?

    I

    Barnier was playing politics in his role for the EU. He hasn't only just started. It was one big act of self promotion.
    Not quite sure why you felt the need to point out the obvious?
    You wrote this which implied to me that you thought he wasn't playing politics in his role for the EU.

    You can recognise what Barnier was doing in his role for the EU and vehemently disagree with his views when he is trying to get candidacy for a centre right party in France?
    Why would that mean I didn't think he was playing politics?

    Literally everyone involved in this playing politics. They are politicians. This is politics.

    You don't have the career Barnier has had without being a serious political operator.
    _

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