BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

kingstongraham

I agree. Unfortunately, they have put in a policy that too easily lends itself to people - even Caroline Lucas - saying "that's not very democratic" (in less polite terms), which they then have to justify which is a waste of time.

rick_chasey

I have to say I cannot stand all this tactical voting chat - it's nuts that people aren't more annoyed that in order for their interests to be represented best they, in some instances, should vote for a party different to the one which is most closely aligned to them.

Seems ridiculous that this is tolerable. The idea that votes for a party in one constituency are worth less than the same vote in another.

kingstongraham

It's this system that has delivered the strong and stable government we've been enjoying over the last few years. If we'd have had to have a coalition, it would have been a chaotic nightmare like in 2010 to 2015.

pblakeney

I find it extremely funny that hypothetically if the Lib Dems get elected with a majority and cancel A50 then they are not representing the majority. 🤣🤣🤣

Stevo_666

pblakeney said:

I find it extremely funny that hypothetically if the Lib Dems get elected with a majority and cancel A50 then they are not representing the majority. 🤣🤣🤣

They definitely would be representing the majority if that happened, but let's be honest - it's a pretty hypothetical scenario

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

I honestly don't think they've even bought into their signature policy themselves either. It's basically "we want to stop Brexit without a vote if we win, but we aren't going to win, so really we want another referendum".

At least you're being honest about their intentions and prospects.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

I honestly don't think they've even bought into their signature policy themselves either. It's basically "we want to stop Brexit without a vote if we win, but we aren't going to win, so really we want another referendum".

At least you're being honest about their intentions and prospects.

I can do the same with the others' Brexit policy.

Conservatives: give us a majority and we'll leave the EU at the end of January, then lie back, relax and realise it's June already and we need to ask the EU for the extension to the withdrawal agreement we promised not to. Vote conservative, get more deal or no deal arguments.

Labour: we're going to give you another referendum between the current deal and remaining. But we're going to try to confuse you first.

Brexit party: I'm Nigel, remember me? Please pay attention to me.

pblakeney

Option D - A hung parliament. Which is quite likely.

Depending on your view I can see how this is appealing. Utter and complete chaos until the actual real end of transition Brexit date when the EU will have had enough and chuck us out without a deal.
This means the referendum has been met and no one gets the blame, except Johnny Foreigner for forcing a no deal on us.

kingstongraham

From the latest yougov poll:

https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/1194336599842144256?s=19

If that is what people want, why have we got the deal we have? 67% in favour of free movement of labour after we leave.

pblakeney

That's not what we wanted in 2016, and that is all that counts.
Yeah, I know. Nuts.

Stevo_666

pblakeney said:

Option D - A hung parliament. Which is quite likely.

Depending on your view I can see how this is appealing. Utter and complete chaos until the actual real end of transition Brexit date when the EU will have had enough and chuck us out without a deal.
This means the referendum has been met and no one gets the blame, except Johnny Foreigner for forcing a no deal on us.

https://electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Keep hoping...

Pross

Politicians are really annoying me more than ever with their bandwagon jumping in this election. First who can throw the most money, then using the armed forces and their families as a football on Armistice Day and today the flood victims up north that they ignored for a few days (and again, an arms race on how much they're going to spend on flood defence).

All those politicians who decided not to stand again due to abuse should look at this behaviour and, unfortunately, it might explain why that happens. If I was living in Doncaster and got invaded by a bunch of politicians playing up for the media I think I'd get abusive. Likewise if I'd served in the armed forces and was being told everything they were going to do for me after ignoring me for a decade or more.

kingstongraham

Johnson actually used the "coalition of chaos" line in the election broadcast.

mr_goo

I love the Lib Dems £10k giveaway for adult education. So well thought out.....
...if we work to whole numbers and assume every adult takes this up the cost is £35bn which I believe adds about 10% to the national debt. What a great idea.

rjsterry

mr_goo said:

I love the Lib Dems £10k giveaway for adult education. So well thought out.....
...if we work to whole numbers and assume every adult takes this up the cost is £35bn which I believe adds about 10% to the national debt. What a great idea.

Weren't you one of the guys complaining about how awful it was to saddle people with debt from tuition fees? Or was that someone else?

rjsterry

Also 10% of ~£2tn ≠ £35bn.

rick_chasey

mr_goo said:

I love the Lib Dems £10k giveaway for adult education. So well thought out.....
...if we work to whole numbers and assume every adult takes this up the cost is £35bn which I believe adds about 10% to the national debt. What a great idea.

What’s wrong with government supporting education ?

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

Also 10% of ~£2tn ≠ £35bn.

Obviously more education is required. 😂

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

Also 10% of ~£2tn ≠ £35bn.

35,000,000 x £10,000 = £350,000,000,000

Either way it seems that sums are not Goo's biggest strength

mr_goo

rick_chasey said:

mr_goo said:

I love the Lib Dems £10k giveaway for adult education. So well thought out.....
...if we work to whole numbers and assume every adult takes this up the cost is £35bn which I believe adds about 10% to the national debt. What a great idea.

What’s wrong with government supporting education ?

Nothing wrong at all. I myself would love to retrain for something that would take me into retirement and beyond. However I don't think that Jo Swinson and co are going to pay my mortgage and utilities as well.
It's a grand idea/gesture but like all of them it will not get off the ground.

Note. Didn't know UK debt was that much. Jeez. And Labour want to borrow hundreds of billions more.

Btw. Where does this money come from? I'm intrigued, not being versed in financial matters of the corporate/gov kind.

rick_chasey

In response to your title Goo.

Have already posted the thoughts of Chris Dillow who feels Labour's policy is sustainable in the sense that they won't do Brexit and the Tory's isn't, for the reason they will.

Here's Simon Wren-Lewis professor at oxford. He's been very critical of Tory policy in the last 10 years FWIW, particularly of austerity.

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-differences-between-labour-and.html

The Conservatives have learnt the lesson of 2017, and have ditched austerity in order to offer higher spending to the electorate.They hope voters decide that there isn't much difference between the two parties on this score. But voters would be wrong to do so. In Labour's case the extra spending is sustainable, whereas for the Tories it will not be. There are two reasons for this.

kingstongraham

mr_goo said:

Btw. Where does this money come from? I'm intrigued, not being versed in financial matters of the corporate/gov kind.

Roughly a half is held by UK investors (pensions, banks, investors), a quarter is held by the Bank of England, and a quarter is held by overseas investors.

rjsterry

mr_goo said:

rick_chasey said:

mr_goo said:

I love the Lib Dems £10k giveaway for adult education. So well thought out.....
...if we work to whole numbers and assume every adult takes this up the cost is £35bn which I believe adds about 10% to the national debt. What a great idea.

What’s wrong with government supporting education ?

Nothing wrong at all. I myself would love to retrain for something that would take me into retirement and beyond. However I don't think that Jo Swinson and co are going to pay my mortgage and utilities as well.
It's a grand idea/gesture but like all of them it will not get off the ground.

Note. Didn't know UK debt was that much. Jeez. And Labour want to borrow hundreds of billions more.

Btw. Where does this money come from? I'm intrigued, not being versed in financial matters of the corporate/gov kind.

https://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/advanced/what-about-the-national-debt/

mr_goo

If the main parties want to save the NHS then they need to start off by cutting out the dead wood multi tiered management that inhabit the GP practices and medical centres. Not forgetting the newly appointed staff mental welfare person recently appointed at my wife's place of work, who has really want his money by organising a walk/cycle morning along our local cliff top, culminating in a cuppa (pay yourself).

This is the kind of cr4p nanny state nonsense that is draining the NHS.

elbowloh

rick_chasey said:

I have to say I cannot stand all this tactical voting chat - it's nuts that people aren't more annoyed that in order for their interests to be represented best they, in some instances, should vote for a party different to the one which is most closely aligned to them.

Seems ridiculous that this is tolerable. The idea that votes for a party in one constituency are worth less than the same vote in another.

This is the point though for me. I don't think i'm particularly aligned with any party. Things are too partisan. The yanks have even less choice.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

mr_goo said:

rick_chasey said:

mr_goo said:

I love the Lib Dems £10k giveaway for adult education. So well thought out.....
...if we work to whole numbers and assume every adult takes this up the cost is £35bn which I believe adds about 10% to the national debt. What a great idea.

What’s wrong with government supporting education ?

Nothing wrong at all. I myself would love to retrain for something that would take me into retirement and beyond. However I don't think that Jo Swinson and co are going to pay my mortgage and utilities as well.
It's a grand idea/gesture but like all of them it will not get off the ground.

Note. Didn't know UK debt was that much. Jeez. And Labour want to borrow hundreds of billions more.

Btw. Where does this money come from? I'm intrigued, not being versed in financial matters of the corporate/gov kind.

https://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/advanced/what-about-the-national-debt/

that is hundreds of billions more on top of the planned tens of billion more (a year) that is already in the pipeline.

I am currently walking in the shoes of somebody who thinks that debt does not matter. It is very liberating - all economic problems instantly disappear.

elbowloh

mr_goo said:

If the main parties want to save the NHS then they need to start off by cutting out the dead wood multi tiered management that inhabit the GP practices and medical centres. Not forgetting the newly appointed staff mental welfare person recently appointed at my wife's place of work, who has really want his money by organising a walk/cycle morning along our local cliff top, culminating in a cuppa (pay yourself).

This is the kind of cr4p nanny state nonsense that is draining the NHS.

I think you'll find that productivity, sickness/absence and efficiency would all improve with improved welfare. It's probably money well-spent.

It's something that the private sector is doing also, as it makes financial, as well as social, sense.

My company is doing it now, as are all of our competitors.

mfin

My favourite laugh of the pitching in the last week is Boris' Politcal Party Broadcast where he was on the wander, making coffee answering staged questions which were subsequently over-dubbed with another voice. Well, the particular laugh is the sheer gall of the Cons to have him repeatedly seen next to "20,000 more police officers" posters when that's pretty much the same number the party themselves have reduced them by. The poster might as well say "we promise to fix the complete f**k up policing problem that we ourselves caused by putting it back to where it was".

I mean, what kind of people fall for this? Do they REALLY think people are that stupid? Their running down of police has been talked about time and time and time again, and 20,000 has always been the number mentioned as the reduction under the cons.

This is just another example of how utterly trusting they are in the fact that people are stupid, and they can get stupid people to vote for them by saying stupid things.

elbowloh

mfin said:

My favourite laugh of the pitching in the last week is Boris' Politcal Party Broadcast where he was on the wander, making coffee answering staged questions which were subsequently over-dubbed with another voice. Well, the particular laugh is the sheer gall of the Cons to have him repeatedly seen next to "20,000 more police officers" posters when that's pretty much the same number the party themselves have reduced them by. The poster might as well say "we promise to fix the complete f**k up policing problem that we ourselves caused by putting it back to where it was".

I mean, what kind of people fall for this? Do they REALLY think people are that stupid? Their running down of police has been talked about time and time and time again, and 20,000 has always been the number mentioned as the reduction under the cons.

This is just another example of how utterly trusting they are in the fact that people are stupid, and they can get stupid people to vote for them by saying stupid things.

It's like telling people to vote for them to get Brexit done.

The reason why Brexit hasn't been done already is down to themselves.

When they did have a majority, May called an election and lost seats. The tory ERG repeatedly did not back her deal. Then Boris lost another load of Tory MPs before the vote on his deal.

kingstongraham

mfin said:

My favourite laugh of the pitching in the last week is Boris' Politcal Party Broadcast where he was on the wander, making coffee answering staged questions which were subsequently over-dubbed with another voice. Well, the particular laugh is the sheer gall of the Cons to have him repeatedly seen next to "20,000 more police officers" posters when that's pretty much the same number the party themselves have reduced them by. The poster might as well say "we promise to fix the complete f**k up policing problem that we ourselves caused by putting it back to where it was".

I mean, what kind of people fall for this? Do they REALLY think people are that stupid? Their running down of police has been talked about time and time and time again, and 20,000 has always been the number mentioned as the reduction under the cons.

This is just another example of how utterly trusting they are in the fact that people are stupid, and they can get stupid people to vote for them by saying stupid things.

This is what skewered Matt Hancock v Susanna Reid. The way he repeats "20,000 more police officers" even when she's saying that it's less than they cut is like Nigel Tufnell describing his amp.