immigrant deaths the med

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  • davmaggs
    davmaggs Posts: 1,008
    ddraver wrote:

    The only way you pull the rug out of anything that is illegal - provide a safer, legal alternative as I have suggested in the previous post

    There isn't a legal alternative for the economic migrants. Europe doesn't need or want them, which is why they are using the illegal method (which costs more than a plane ticket) of boats.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,718
    There is a clear distinction between refugees fleeing ISIS (who just want to be safe) and economic migrants. The first step (since I'm the only one trying to suggest a solution) is to separate the two. Do that and at least you reduce the number of boats giving current law enforcement a chance to deal with the economic migrants
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,568
    Agree with the above . . . there are two issues here that are getting conflated.

    If an immigrant or immigrants arrive on our (or anyone else's shores) they are either legally here on a visa (working or holiday), illegally here (and should be deported) or seeking asylum (which, if genuine, I am proud say we offer in this country)

    This is entirely separate from people drowning in a desperate attempt to get to Europe.

    Although the "pull" is being blamed, the "push" needs some looking at. Sadly I have no faith in any current politicians (UK or otherwise) to sort that.
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • davmaggs
    davmaggs Posts: 1,008
    ddraver wrote:
    There is a clear distinction between refugees fleeing ISIS (who just want to be safe) and economic migrants. The first step (since I'm the only one trying to suggest a solution) is to separate the two. Do that and at least you reduce the number of boats giving current law enforcement a chance to deal with the economic migrants

    The flaw in that plan is that asylum seekers are supposed to stop in the first safe country, and they aren't doing that so they actually have no legal case to be accepted in Europe. You don't save a single boat with that proposal.

    Europe therefore tries to stop them landing because once they are here they won't be deported within costing a fortune and taking years.

    Let's say we do decide to take in Syrian refugees, there are several million and in terms of real politik Europe doesn't want several million genuine refugees so we don't run a process to accept claims from them (at the moment). Lebanon and others have the entire burden. Let's say we did open a channel up, we would only take a small percentage so those with the cash would still pay for the boat.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    ddraver wrote:
    There is a clear distinction between refugees fleeing ISIS (who just want to be safe) and economic migrants. The first step (since I'm the only one trying to suggest a solution) is to separate the two. Do that and at least you reduce the number of boats giving current law enforcement a chance to deal with the economic migrants

    How would that help? these people have nt got papers and could just as easily say they are fleeing Boka Haram or ISIS in Yemen or where ever?
    to do as you suggest means stopping the boats leaving, setting up refugee centres in Libya and that means as i said on page 2 of this thread, soldiers in libya and my opinion is that europe will do what europe does best and dither, besides no one country has the miltary means to take the ports and hold them against some pretty hardened fighters and of course, should we end up in there, more fighters would pour in to get rid of us.
    the euro plan to sink the boats wont work, as the refugees will get on the boats before hand and prevent any sinking taking place.

    a naval blockade of the ports, force ably sending the boats back, with the resulting loss of life, is unlikely to happen either.

    We have to hope the Americans, like they did in Kosovo will come to our aid.... again.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,718
    I ll answer your questions when you suggest an alternative. Criticism is easy, time to turn your own brains on...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Kerguelen
    Kerguelen Posts: 248
    Good to see the hate brigade out today.

    Just what I've been missing all this time.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    ddraver wrote:
    I ll answer your questions when you suggest an alternative. Criticism is easy, time to turn your own brains on...

    did you read my post? europes leaders havent the will or the means to do anything, i suggested what could/should happen, the reality is europe wont do a thing, other than more patrols.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    Here we go again. Earlier in the week CaMoron claims the migrant deaths were a dark day for Europe, as if it was the European nations fault for the deaths. But wait... Unbelievably in an attempt to garner votes Ed Millipede has now pointed the finger at CaMoron.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1471399/labour-accuses-pm-over-migrant-boat-deaths
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,996
    I see the God bothers have joined in the debate, saying that we should open our doors to N African migrants.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04 ... ed-create/

    He does however stop short of setting up Christian mission stations in N Africa to help their plight. Wonder why? :wink:
  • Alain Quay
    Alain Quay Posts: 534
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Tony Abbot may have the answer.
    These tragedies will continue as long as Europe takes in the migrants. Turn the boats back or tow them back whence they came.
    As long as people traffickers can hold out hope of getting people across, there will be people desperate enough to try.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ccess.html

    What Tony Abbott is doing is putting a lot of asylum seekers on a neutral island, Nauru, indefinitely, and no reporters are allowed to visit, etc. The U.N. has been very critical of the policy and what's gone on. Italy has war-torn Libya and Syria not so far away. Australia's situation is not so desperate. It is a tough issue and responses need to be bipartisan because the choices are between a rock and a hard place. Middle Eastern and African instability are the root causes but it didn't become that way on its own.

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