Weightloss

sloppyschleckonds · April 2015

RutlandGav wrote:

on rest days if i skip meals (basically feel so lightheaded i can't drive safely and too fatigued to get on the bike -

Jesus wept

RutlandGav · April 2015

bobones wrote:

I don't have a problem with bonking: never have since I started cycling again a few years ago, but I am not sure why that is. I tend to sip a sugary drink (SIS Go powder) while I am riding so maybe that helps. I used to take a Monday off altogether but now I'll just go super easy and still get 450-500 cals burnt. I may go over budget a little on some days, but I usually have a few days where I am well under. It helps that I can get out on the bike most weekday mornings before work for at least an hour and a half and I'll go out even if the weather is pretty rubbish just to get some calories burnt and avoid the turbo.

I don't know but I seem prone to it. Maybe your brain is better at coping with low glucose levels than mine. A great majority of the time, my pedalling power isn't affected too badly, but I become Darwin-awards stupid and need to get off the road. Recklessness, daydreaming, inattentiveness, that sort of thing.

If I can't ride because i broke something on the bike and am waiting a spare part in the post, or have a niggle and want to rest it, i might take a day off and just not eat much. I find that hunger peaks about 6-8 hours after i last ate then it starts to turn off, so i can fast for 24 hours easier than cutting my portion sizes in half.

I can walk a couple miles to the shop in that state, but riding would be too strenuous. And no, I really don't want to get behind the wheel in that state either, i'm not "all there" and would probably end up killing someone.

I usually bring a sports drink or something with me but wait till i'm feeling the effects of low blood sugar before necking it. I don't mind it too much, it's kind of like getting drunk without spending any money, and gives me an idea how much glycogen i had onboard at the start of the ride.

ai_1 · May 2015

RutlandGav wrote:

bobones wrote:

I don't have a problem with bonking: never have since I started cycling again a few years ago, but I am not sure why that is. I tend to sip a sugary drink (SIS Go powder) while I am riding so maybe that helps. I used to take a Monday off altogether but now I'll just go super easy and still get 450-500 cals burnt. I may go over budget a little on some days, but I usually have a few days where I am well under. It helps that I can get out on the bike most weekday mornings before work for at least an hour and a half and I'll go out even if the weather is pretty rubbish just to get some calories burnt and avoid the turbo.

I don't know but I seem prone to it. Maybe your brain is better at coping with low glucose levels than mine. A great majority of the time, my pedalling power isn't affected too badly, but I become Darwin-awards stupid and need to get off the road. Recklessness, daydreaming, inattentiveness, that sort of thing.

If I can't ride because i broke something on the bike and am waiting a spare part in the post, or have a niggle and want to rest it, i might take a day off and just not eat much. I find that hunger peaks about 6-8 hours after i last ate then it starts to turn off, so i can fast for 24 hours easier than cutting my portion sizes in half.

I can walk a couple miles to the shop in that state, but riding would be too strenuous. And no, I really don't want to get behind the wheel in that state either, i'm not "all there" and would probably end up killing someone.

I usually bring a sports drink or something with me but wait till i'm feeling the effects of low blood sugar before necking it. I don't mind it too much, it's kind of like getting drunk without spending any money, and gives me an idea how much glycogen i had onboard at the start of the ride.

This, to me, sounds like you're massively overdoing it. I think I'd rather hang onto a few extra kg than operate in the state of malnutrition that you seem to be describing. I think the extra weight will be a lot healthier too!
Surely if you're a little more patient you can reduce weight at a slower rate without going to these extremes of self deprivation?

markhewitt1978 · May 2015

Indeed. I've often read that starving yourself is counter productive too as the body goes into a sort of starvation mode where it hangs onto the fat reserves it has rather than using them up. Either way depriving yourself of food so much that you feel faint isn't going to help and can do you a lot of harm including depressing your immune system and causing damage to your internal systems due to low blood sugar - don't do it!

keef66 · May 2015

I thought I'd be going light headed on the fasting days of the 5:2 diet, but I'm fine. I eat nothing for just about 24 hours and then it's just a 5-600 cal meal in the evening. I can still go out afterwards and do an hour's ride at a brisk pace. The 15 pound weight loss sees me quite a bit quicker up hill too.

I think if you haven't got the energy to drive or bimble down to the shop on your bike, there's something seriously wrong. Get your GP to check your BP and do a fasted blood glucose test at the very least.

RutlandGav · May 2015

keef66 wrote:

I thought I'd be going light headed on the fasting days of the 5:2 diet, but I'm fine. I eat nothing for just about 24 hours and then it's just a 5-600 cal meal in the evening. I can still go out afterwards and do an hour's ride at a brisk pace. The 15 pound weight loss sees me quite a bit quicker up hill too.

I think if you haven't got the energy to drive or bimble down to the shop on your bike, there's something seriously wrong. Get your GP to check your BP and do a fasted blood glucose test at the very least.

Back in December, when i'd not really exercised for 6 months and was a stone and a half heavier, i did get some blood tests courtesy of el GP. After 20 hours fasting i was at 4.5 glucose, felt a bit light headed, was extra careful driving there. I've done enough cycling to be aware that i'm piloting a lethal weapon, if i can't bring my A game i'd rather walk.

At work i have given myself finger prick tests mid morning and get around 4.3 or so, am feeling like i'm struggling to do my job properly at this point. Thing is some people routinely have blood sugar numbers below that and notice no ill effects, so i just blame it on having a crappy brain.

Yeah on a "fasting" 5:2 day, I'd really rather not get behind the wheel at all. Would rather walk 2 miles to the shops than risk it. For similar reasons, don't particularly trust myself on a bike on public roads. I could obviously pedal that distance ok but i might get myself squished.

Walking is fine to an unlimited extent because it does not require fast reflexes and is below 50% vo2 max exertion and entirely fat burning. On the bike though, it's tough to keep to such a slow pace.

Tonight i was reminded of the other way you can hypo-glycaemic crash through exercise.

I'd ridden to work 90 minutes but had eaten a good 1500 calories across a hearty breakfast and lunch and a light afternoon snack at 3pm. Finishing the shift at 6.45pm, i was feeling hungry but was determined to eat at home. I had a sports drink before setting off, then realised i'd forgot something, had to get changed into uniform again, went back through security, to my desk, back out, got changed again, now 7.05pm.

By downing that sugary drink and then not starting to exercise for a further 20 minutes i'd sent my blood sugar spiking and triggered an insulin release. Then of course that small drink ran out, i was on the road but still had a fair bit of insulin in my blood. Even though my glycogen reserves should have been plentiful, i quickly started to feel out of sorts. Hands started shaking, stopped by side of road and started picking thorns out of my tyres, which actualyl turned out to be blades of grass. Had another mouthful or two of drink and felt better, continued the rest of the way home. Of course all the caffeine i'd had that day will have exaggerated everything. I wasn't dehydrated though - had to stop for a wee twice on the way back and another one right after getting home.

Moral - if you're going to have a sugary drink or snack before riding, take it the very moment you set off , any earlier does more harm than good!

diy · May 2015

I did 5:2 for over 2, years and am on 6:1 now as I couldn't hold on to my weight with my exercise regime. I do the eat nothing and then consume it all in one go, though since I do a 2 hour gym session (cardio and base strength weight), I normally have about 100cal of porridge before. I found I was a bit light headed after about 1.5 hours of exercise if I was truly on empty. I also used to cramp a bit. On the bike, I can go hard for just over an hour without having eaten for 18 hours, but I cramp a little beyond that and even the zero cal tabs can't hold it off after over 2 hours. All my best strava's have been on fasting days. It took me about 3 months on 5:2 before I could properly exercise on fasting day. Now its the same as any other day - apart from being faster.

I thinks some people are genetically better at endurance. Though I'd be interested to hear, resting HR and body composition data for people struggling. I'm wondering if they have high BMRs for example.

the 600cal is only a guide number at the end of the day - its 25% of your RDA. I think that is why 5:2 works better for men than women.

markhewitt1978 · May 2015

Sugar of 4 is really low. If my wife gets to below 4 she almost starts to shut down and needs sweets or orange juice quickly. I can tell before she gets there just by the way she acts and her responses.

sloppyschleckonds · May 2015

bobones wrote:

I've lost 15lbs in the last 5 weeks mainly by cycling lots and counting calories.

I'm calling bullshite on this

meanredspider · May 2015

RutlandGav wrote:

Moral - if you're going to have a sugary drink or snack before riding, take it the very moment you set off , any earlier does more harm than good!

When you start exercising, your liver should pump some glycogen into the system in preparation for the demand. Taking a sugary drink shouldn't be an issue. If you're monitoring your blood sugar, is that because you need to?

keef66 · May 2015

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

bobones wrote:

I've lost 15lbs in the last 5 weeks mainly by cycling lots and counting calories.

I'm calling bullshite on this

Well I've now managed 15 pounds in 11 weeks of the 5:2 diet, with only moderate cycling. And a massive upward blip in the middle due to gluttony during 2 business trips and the Easter weekend.

So I'd say it is possible with a high starting weight, a lot of cycling and daily calorie restriction. Doubt it's sustainable or enjoyable though...

bobones · May 2015

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

bobones wrote:

I've lost 15lbs in the last 5 weeks mainly by cycling lots and counting calories.

I'm calling bullshite on this

Everything I've said is true. I cannot prove it, but here are is a screen shot of the LoseIt app on my phone and my Strava stats for April, which might go some way to convincing you.

What exactly is so unbelievable?

bobones · May 2015

keef66 wrote:

So I'd say it is possible with a high starting weight, a lot of cycling and daily calorie restriction. Doubt it's sustainable or enjoyable though...

I am eating pretty normally: just being a bit more careful about snacks and sugary drinks. The calorie deficit comes from cycling a fair amount, which is actually enjoyable. I don't need to sustain this, because I don't want to continue to lose weight when I reach my target, but I can see me persisting with a higher volume of cycling because I am improving as a result. Maybe not 70 hours a month, but more than the 9 hours a week I used to target.

diy · May 2015

The numbers sound about right.

Though as you decline in weight, you'll drop your burn. I'd be upping my protein a bit given the rate of loss and doing a bit of bodyweight work out too if I didn't have gym membership. 3lb a week is getting beyond fat.

sloppyschleckonds · May 2015

I've read somewhere that Bradley Wiggins has to lose 10kg between now and 7th June.

I'll send on this thread.

ilav84 · May 2015

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

I've read somewhere that Bradley Wiggins has to lose 10kg between now and 7th June.

I'll send on this thread.

That's more than i have to lose between now and July

:shock:

bobones · June 2015

Quick update for the non believers ...

26lbs lost in 10 weeks by cycling and counting calories with a phone app.

keef66 · June 2015

Impressive!

ilav84 · June 2015

bobones wrote:

Quick update for the non believers ...

26lbs lost in 10 weeks by cycling and counting calories with a phone app.

Finally, the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in bobone's weight loss, the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

keef66 · June 2015

It's not a miracle. Look at how much cycling he's done; combine that with calorie counting and his rate of weight loss is quite believable.

It's still a bloody good achievement; I hope he can sustain his new lower weight.

I couldn't do calorie counting every day, it would suck all the enjoyment out of eating. That's what I find so appealing about the 5:2 approach. The fast days are easy because I'm at work and not thinking about food. Fri / Sat / Sun I just eat the same as the rest of the family. On average I've lost a pound a week on a lot less cycling than bobones; 16 pounds since mid Feb. But the most significant things are:

1) I can see me eating like this indefinitely; it's not a 'diet' in the commonly accepted sense of the word, more a way of life.
2) I've seen impressive improvements in fasting cholesterol and triglycerides, which had until now stubbornly remained at levels high enough for the GP to be threatening me with statins / fibrates.
3) My wife tells me I no longer snore. Maybe this should be No. 1...

markhewitt1978 · June 2015

My main issue I need to get over is snacking in the evening. I can stick to a diet all day until about 7.30pm after we put the child to bed, I sit down to relax and I just want to eat! Even though I've had my dinner an hour previously.

A month ago I managed to kick the habit and lose a stone but I'm back into it now

keef66 · June 2015

It too is a weakness of mine, but not limited to evenings. Especially when the snacks are freely available as happens occasionally at work. Last week was a good example; only one fast day because of the bank holiday, then a day at a workshop at Churchill college with a 3 course lunch and snacks / boiled sweets throughout the day, then a load of chocolate and cakes appeared at work courtesy of an internal meeting. Put 3 pounds back on :shock:

Back on the program this week, and the weather's looking fairly good for cycling....

Onwards and downwards

ai_1 · June 2015

Snacks are indeed the downfall for many of us. When life is plane sailing I'm fairly okay, but that's rare. More often I'm under pressure at work and doing long hours. That inevitibly leads to bars of chocolate or other convenience "food" to keep me going. It also tends to suck up training time and the combo is deadly.

slowmart · June 2015

18lbs in 11 weeks. 12st 8lb today

Still hitting the 1200 cals a day. I'll go over by about 20% on a ride day but I'm now upping my riding to 4 days and 125 miles a week plus and I'm aiming to reduce the excess intake on a ride day and see what effect that has on performance.

My personal bests are improving beyond expectation but I want to keep a fun element which I save for the large ride on a Sunday.

bobones · June 2015

Calorie counting is the key for me. By knowing exactly where I stand in my daily calorie budget, I know whether I can eat some crisps or chocolate or pizza or whether I need to rein in on the snacks or get out on the bike. If I've done, say, 2 brisk hours on the bike that morning I can generally eat anything I want within reason. Once you get into the habit of logging calories a site or app like LoseIt and you've built up a database of the stuff you eat, it really only takes a few seconds to keep up to date.

For a calorie budget of 1400 to lose 2 lbs a week, a typical day with, say, 800 calories cycling leaves 2200 to eat, which is no hardship at all if you just keep an eye on things.

The other key is cycling virtually every day. Even on rest days, I'll go out for a super easy ride and burn maybe 400 calories which is better than nothing. I don't start work until 10 am so I am out on the country lanes at around 7 am for 1.5-2 hours. I'm also out a couple of evenings during the week and I do a longer run on the Saturday (maybe 3 or 4 hours at a decent clip) and another 2-3 hours on the Sunday. I seem to be averaging around 16 hours a week, which is probably a lot more than most people can manage.

Anyway, I don't want to preach: I'm just relating what works for me.

markhewitt1978 · June 2015

For me just getting out during the week is a serious problem. Can't cycle to work - too far and I've been managing a half hour ride twice a week in the mornings, but even carving out that time requires serious juggling around of what I'm doing during the day and not helping with the kids etc.

ai_1 · June 2015

markhewitt1978 wrote:

For me just getting out during the week is a serious problem. Can't cycle to work - too far and I've been managing a half hour ride twice a week in the mornings, but even carving out that time requires serious juggling around of what I'm doing during the day and not helping with the kids etc.

I've no kids but even so I'm struggling to get out training in the last few weeks. A long commute by car and a reasonably early start (08:30) means I'd have to be up extremely early to get anything done in the morning and if I then have to do a few extra hours my evening is gone too. I was doing well (for me) with about 10hrs training per week (mostly cycling with some running and swimming) in April and first half of May but the last 3 weeks have been a disaster. Longer than normal work hours have annihilated my mid-week training and I've been working some days at the weekends as well. I definitely need a new job!!!

markhewitt1978 · June 2015

Ai_1 wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

For me just getting out during the week is a serious problem. Can't cycle to work - too far and I've been managing a half hour ride twice a week in the mornings, but even carving out that time requires serious juggling around of what I'm doing during the day and not helping with the kids etc.

I've no kids but even so I'm struggling to get out training in the last few weeks. A long commute by car and a reasonably early start (08:30) means I'd have to be up extremely early to get anything done in the morning and if I then have to do a few extra hours my evening is gone too. I was doing well (for me) with about 10hrs training per week (mostly cycling with some running and swimming) in April and first half of May but the last 3 weeks have been a disaster. Longer than normal work hours have annihilated my mid-week training and I've been working some days at the weekends as well. I definitely need a new job!!!

Sounds familiar! I too start at 8.30 and the commute means I'm leaving the house at about 7.15 to get to work and get everything done I need to do before I actually start.

So getting out in the morning cycling requires a 5.45 start.

The only real time I do have is my lunch hour. I've tried bringing my bike to work before but ended up being a huge hassle, worse even than getting out in the mornings, so most days I walk for an hour.

bobmcstuff · June 2015

I used to feel like my cycling after work was taking up all my evening, but now if I spend more than one or two evenings in the house in a row I start getting fed up. Not really sure what I used to do with my evenings!

It does get difficult though, I've just started an MBA which often has Tuesday or Thursday evening online lectures (my preferred midweek cycling days), plus there is often something with work and my girlfriend as well (she likes to see me sometimes apparently!).

Settled at 70kg since January but a few big weeks and I was down to 69kg just before I came on holiday on Wednesday. A few days of tapas and rioja has probably put me back over 70! Just waiting for my hire bike to show up and I'll hopefully get some nice hilly rides in. Thinking about trying to get down to 65kg because I can probably still lose that 5kg from fat, but 70kg is bang in the middle of my healthy bmi and at the moment I'm just enjoying cycling a lot and eating like a normal person. I think I'd also need to do some upper body work as I'd start looking a bit strange. Plus there's a financial aspect - another 5kg and I'll have to replace all my clothes again! I'm just on the verge of needing to replace all the stuff I bought when I got to 75kg as it is.

markhewitt1978 · June 2015

Well done. I'm still trying to get down to 70kg, which is at the top of my healthy BMI range.

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