Ronde van Vlaanderen 2015 *SPOILER THREAD*

ddraver

Once again I am left wondering why many of you watch cycling, you seem to hate it so much

The favourite won and won in style with class. Good on him. Other than that it was a fairly typical Flanders classic, attacks over the Hellingen that get brought back followed by further attacks until one sticks.

I did wonder how many Wiggins digs there would be this weekend. Every time I saw him on the roadside (with the exception of below) he was on the front. By the time I'd found a bar he had gone but it seems like he was beset by mechanicals too, which I didnt see.

For those people that actually...you know...like watching cycling have a look at the bunch on the Eikenberg - https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10 ... 7111998722 - Wiggo haters will like it too.

For those that follow Sky on fb I happened to stand by Rusty, who is the old guy who's wife posts all the pics on the page. He was great to talk to, a proper cycling sage and a really knowledgeable guy. He really knows the team and the riders well. (they have chasing the race around the area down to a T too!)

I hope those of you that did the Cyclo had a good day. After the sun last year it was a change to ride it in proper flandrien conditions. Man they are slippery! Almost made it up the Koppenberg but the guy that moved in to let my mate past moved right back out and sent me into the verge so that was me done. Dabbed on the OK but got back on. Spent a lot of time screaming/pleading at people to get out of the way (#MTBSkillz). Eddie Plankaert gave me a nod and a smile as I rode past him doing interviews half way up! The flat cobbled sections were fantastic fun, time to MTFU and do P-R next year.

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

Once again I am left wondering why many of you watch cycling, you seem to hate it so much

It baffles me too. The contrast between cycling fans and hockey fans (it was the Eurohockey league finals this weekend) is remarkable. But then almost all hockey fans actually play hockey, so that's probably the difference.

ddraver wrote:

I did wonder how many Wiggins digs there would be this weekend. Every time I saw him on the roadside (with the exception of below) he was on the front. By the time I'd found a bar he had gone but it seems like he was beset by mechanicals too, which I didnt see.

He had a crash and had to change his bike a couple of times. While his injuries weren't serious I think they effected him for the rest of the race. He spent most of the next 50km hanging around at the back before arriving briefly at the front before the race blew up.

You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=20&v=k-69yBpuB0k (mostly bike changing - crash replay at the end)

thomthom

Oh, here we go again. Why can't we be disappointed in a race without clashing the fact that we still love the sport?

I'm a die hard football fan and play weekly with the boys. And boy can I bored to death by many matches on teli during a season. Just like I can get all fussed up about the most ridiculous insignificant matches as well.

I acknowledge it was cool being there. I've been myself. I was at the WC in Copenhagen, too, few meters from the finish line with. Drunk and in great spirit. Still doesn't change the fact that the race wasn't very good. Still, I do kind of like this sport - actually, so much as I'm on a bloody forum daily writing about it..

RichN95.

ThomThom wrote:

Oh, here we go again. Why can't we be disappointed in a race without clashing the fact that we still love the sport?

It's not that. All sports have good and bad events. It just seems that cycling fans always seem to focus to much on denouncing those who failed rather than celebrating those. And when they do mention the winner it's often to devalue their win or link them tenuously to doping.

ddraver

When it's a one off it's fine. However yesterday was not a bad race it was an average one (to be honest, it played out a lot like last years). By definition average races happen most of the time. If one can't find enjoyment out of an average race then surely one is wasting time? I don't mean that in a nasty way but just that there are plenty of other things to watch or do on a sunday afternoon which may be more fitting for your love

thomthom

RichN95 wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Oh, here we go again. Why can't we be disappointed in a race without clashing the fact that we still love the sport?

It's not that. All sports have good and bad events. It just seems that cycling fans always seem to focus to much on denouncing those who failed rather than celebrating those. And when they do mention the winner it's often to devalue their win or link them tenuously to doping.

This I absolutely agree with. And I undestand that there were a few who deemed it a poor race due to the simple fact that it was the wrong winner in their opinion. Still, I think many of those who called it poor and disappointing had all every right to do so from a genuine, objectively point of view.

thomthom

ddraver wrote:

When it's a one off it's fine. However yesterday was not a bad race it was an average one (to be honest, it played out a lot like last years). By definition average races happen most of the time. If one can't find enjoyment out of an average race then surely one is wasting time? I don't mean that in a nasty way but just that there are plenty of other things to watch or do on a sunday afternoon which may be more fitting for your love

Well, how are we going to agree on whether it was average, better than average or worse than average? I thought it was worse than avarage and plenty seemed to think that as well. Questioning people if they love the sport or can't find enjoyment out of a race that isn't necessarily echelon-crazy 100km out because they don't fit your opinion on a particular race is laughable.

ddraver

Well, I can consider peoples posts about races and see if on balance there are more positive than negative. If there are more negative than positive than I can wonder why they would continue watching a sport that, on balance, their posts show they don't enjoy.

Yesterday was a race like any other spring classic. Therefore we can conclude that it was average. I believe iain gave it a very average 5/10 which couldnt be more or less average.

Given that I saw most of the business end from a bar I don't think my location had anything to do with my enjoyment of it either way. I still thought it was good. It was won by an excellent tactical move from 2 (technically 3) riders who were also stronger than the other players in the race. In my opinion watching it was a very pleasant way to spend an afternoon. If next week is the same I will be happy.

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

Given that I saw most of the business end from a bar I don't think my location had anything to do with my enjoyment of it either way.

Now that I just can't agree with. Sport is always better in a bar.

ddraver

well ok, I accept that. However it had ES commentary on though so I reckon that balanced it out

RichN95.

The litmus paper for all this is Bradley Wiggins.

He seems to attract disgust and antipathy for far and wide. And also much adulation? But why? He's just a sportsman doing sport?

- He gets abuse for winning the Tour in 'the wrong way'. A unworthy winner. Despite him hammering everyone in the TTs. Negative tactics. No panache. etc. He rode the race he was given.

- He gets abuse for his media personality. He speaks honestly and openly generally. And people pull apart every word. Damn a man giving his own views rather than yours.

- He gets abuse for not being an anti-doping spokesman as he was perceived to be in 2008. Well he's got more to talk about these days

- Every time he doesn't figure in a race there is glee around social media. But this is one of the best cyclists of the last decade. What the hell do these people think he owes them?

Etc, etc.

And then you have the print media, who have an astonishing sense of entitlement despite not being very relevant any more, who demand access just because the races are owned by newspapers. They really need to all go and cover a different major sport to see how spoilt they are.

An example. A tweet from the Jeremy Whittle - a man now obsessed with negitivity:
Jeremy Whittle @jeremycwhittle · 17h 17 hours ago
@friebos seen the new Velo? Touts Wiggins as the rider 'we love to hate and hate to love....'

HATE. Why celebrate hate? It's a child's emotion. He's one of the greatest UK sportsmen of all time. But he doesn't dance to Whittle's tune, so he is hated.



Again to contrast to Hockey. The Eurohockey League final finished 1-1. There were few chances. Everyone raved about how good the defences were. The umpires were also praised. No-one hates Moritz Furste or Tom Boon or Vincent Vanash. They just love watching them do great things.

slim_boy_fat

RichN95 wrote:

Now that I just can't agree with. Sport is always better in a bar.

I'd argue trying to play any sport other than darts or pool in a bar is a nightmare!

I thought it was a decent race, not an all time classic but good enough to keep me entertained for 5 hours on a Sunday afternoon.

Bo Duke

RichN95 wrote:

The litmus paper for all this is Bradley Wiggins.

He seems to attract disgust and antipathy for far and wide. And also much adulation? But why? He's just a sportsman doing sport?

- He gets abuse for winning the Tour in 'the wrong way'. A unworthy winner. Despite him hammering everyone in the TTs. Negative tactics. No panache. etc. He rode the race he was given.

- He gets abuse for his media personality. He speaks honestly and openly generally. And people pull apart every word. Damn a man giving his own views rather than yours.

- He gets abuse for not being an anti-doping spokesman as he was perceived to be in 2008. Well he's got more to talk about these days

- Every time he doesn't figure in a race there is glee around social media. But this is one of the best cyclists of the last decade. What the hell do these people think he owes them?

Etc, etc.

And then you have the print media, who have an astonishing sense of entitlement despite not being very relevant any more, who demand access just because the races are owned by newspapers. They really need to all go and cover a different major sport to see how spoilt they are.

An example. A tweet from the Jeremy Whittle - a man now obsessed with negitivity:
Jeremy Whittle @jeremycwhittle · 17h 17 hours ago
@friebos seen the new Velo? Touts Wiggins as the rider 'we love to hate and hate to love....'

HATE. Why celebrate hate? It's a child's emotion. He's one of the greatest UK sportsmen of all time. But he doesn't dance to Whittle's tune, so he is hated.



Again to contrast to Hockey. The Eurohockey League final finished 1-1. There were few chances. Everyone raved about how good the defences were. The umpires were also praised. No-one hates Moritz Furste or Tom Boon or Vincent Vanash. They just love watching them do great things.

Good post. The world loved BW for just a few measly months, once he stopped making super natural efforts he was dropped like a hot stone. Great lad really and will make a 'comeback' in popularity once he retires. Until then armchair cyclists will go on attacking him.

tailwindhome

frenchfighter

Not everyone is complaining, some people are saying they didn't find this edition as exciting as some other editions - so what.

ddraver wrote:

I did wonder how many Wiggins digs there would be this weekend. Every time I saw him on the roadside (with the exception of below) he was on the front.

Being on the front out 150km is pointless and even actually a silly thing to do from someone who is 2nd favourite in the team. Should be hidden and then appear in the last 50km or so to protect the 1st favourite then takeover leader duties if the first man fails.

jimmythecuckoo

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

Looks like a beautiful morning there.

Its already nicer than at any point in the last week.

Koppenberg was super muddy and slippy yesterday with the combination of 16,000 freds riding it and it lashing it down, may be extra difficult today.

amen to that

Daz555

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yeah, absolutely no reason for Terpstra to get any criticism for tactics.

And the tactic he attempted - of sitting in behind for the last few kms was exactly the tactics recommended by Kelly himself....and he knows a thing or two about racing.

ddraver

frenchfighter wrote:

Not everyone is complaining, some people are saying they didn't find this edition as exciting as some other editions - so what.

That is true, one of the nice parts of following a race on here is the shared enjoyment, one of the less nice is the shared misery. Luckily for me, the enjoyment tends to outweigh the misery

frenchfighter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I did wonder how many Wiggins digs there would be this weekend. Every time I saw him on the roadside (with the exception of below) he was on the front.

Being on the front out 150km is pointless and even actually a silly thing to do from someone who is 2nd favourite in the team. Should be hidden and then appear in the last 50km or so to protect the 1st favourite then takeover leader duties if the first man fails.

I kind of have to refer you to Rich's post. As much as I can find on YouTube he was beset by bad luck, but when he wasnt he worked as he shouldve been. Ít would have been interesting to see what would have played out had Gee had the World TT Champ to pull the group along in the last 20km

However, on that note, if someone sees a link to the last 50k (Koppenberg on basically), can you post it? I can only find the last 30k which I saw live. It would be good to fill in some blanks

frenchfighter

100kms, restricted to Belgium unless you make the necessary adjustments:
http://www.rtbf.be/video/embed?id=2006398&autoplay=1

Wiggins crash hours and hours from the end of the race (he was the only one to minor crash):
https://youtu.be/k-69yBpuB0k

Given his talents and past exploits, Wiggins should be A+ grade domestique. Therefore he should be at the cutting edge unless he was completely taken out. He just simply didnt have the legs (or motivation) to help G.

You are right about the last 20km. If Wiggins was where he should be and then able to relay with Oss, that firepower would have completely changed the race. He wasn't though.

EKIMIKE

I despair when you get a bunch of morons piling in with 'poor edition so far' with 80km still to go.

Give me a modern-era Monument where the race-defining move went before 50/60km to go... thought not.

ddraver

Excellent, will have a look at that!

It's not the crash though is it, it's the cumulative effect of chasing back on in a race that never really lets up. Plus, for example, They rode the first half very slowly according to the schedule published but by the end they were approximately equal with the fastest schedule (which is why I was late) so they must have picked up the pace markedly in the middle third

frenchfighter

Piling in?

It should be all over the place at least 50km out unless it is that odd race MSR. To be honest it most often is.

EKIMIKE

Yes, we had several such comments within minutes of each other.

Read again: "race-defining move" (and that's not the same as race-winning move either)

And I disagree, there is more often than not a reduced peloton of 30-40 at around 50/60km to go, which is when the big guns start making their moves. It's no coincidence that in a monument that comes at around the 200km raced mark which is the distance at which the second string riders find their limits and the top guys come into their own.

tailwindhome

Iain gave it a 5
Can't have been that bad

Anonymous

EKIMIKE wrote:

I despair when you get a bunch of morons piling in with 'poor edition so far' with 80km still to go.

Give me a modern-era Monument where the race-defining move went before 50/60km to go... thought not.

2012 Paris Roubaix. Tom Boonen solo with 50km to go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w7PtKPfLlY

wombly_knees

I'm not great with race memory, but this very race in 2011 with Chavanel.

ETA: And no, it wasn't a great race. Nice ride by Lutsenko.

EKIMIKE

Yes there was Boonen in Roubaix 2012 and Cancellara went long in Flanders twice in 2010 and 2011 but each of those was at around 50 to go - Canc's second Ronde sortie was 60. The first time worked, the second time he bridged to Chava, who sat on while Canc ran out of gas/bonked, before Nuyens went on the nab the sprint.

The question was for a move that went before then ie. 70/80 to go. It just doesn't happen in the modern-era in Monuments. The likes of Merckx did it but that was Merckx and another era of racing altogether.

I thought it was common knowledge that if you want the excitement and defining moves, tune in at around 50 to go. Yet we keep getting 'it's a boring race' comments at 80 to go. Why bother?

It's like putting bread in the oven and then opening the door 5 minutes later and saying it's not done.

ddraver

I do agree with Mike on that point, none of the bars in Brugge had the race on at 2-3 o'clock, they al switched on at about 4 with 50km to go.

Watching the first 200km of a classic is rarely an exciting few hours unless there are other things to talk about

FJS

EKIMIKE wrote:

I thought it was common knowledge that if you want the excitement and defining moves, tune in at around 50 to go. Yet we keep getting 'it's a boring race' comments at 80 to go.

Perhaps Gent Wevelgem set the bar too high with 4 hours of mayhem.

De Ronde did come to live relatively late this year. The last hour wasnt bad

EKIMIKE

Although we had our detractors for G-W too!

Bad weather and the shorter distance always helps liven things up a little earlier.