"Jihadi John"

Manc33

RDW wrote:

That's an excellent description of the way conspiracy theorists typically think. Once you start believing that 9/11 was 'controlled demolition', or that ISIS is secretly controlled by MI6, any evidence to the contrary, even blindingly obvious evidence that clearly shows the whole thing is nonsense, is selectively ignored.

How do you go back and say there is no evidence of something there is evidence for?

For example thermite residue was found on the 911 rubble by Stephen E Jones (a doctor and physics professor covering decades - who was fired soon after making these claims) then people selectively say "Oh that can't be true because I don't think it would be". What great investigative skills those are. :shock:

Stephen E Jones still found thermate residue on the 911 rubble whether you think that's outrageous or not. I know it is outrageous - but he still found it regardless and it is solid evidence, which people would rather ignore because they don't want to go there. I used to be like that myself until I started actually taking notice of what people (usually experts in their field) are trying to tell us.

Its easier pretending none of this stuff is true, I know that, I agree, it is. Doesn't make any of it go away though does it.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=therm ... en+E+Jones

Next comes the "Oh is this the same Stephen E Jones that once stuck his junk in a fluffy toy" and again people just choose to believe some stupid slander about him just to once again ignore what he discovered. Go on, do it... find some stupid crap about him that isn't even true. People will do anything to avoid considering this stuff, which is absurd when the evidence is there.

What's really interesting though is no one manages to talk their way out of certain things, they remain facts! No one ever says "Well he found thermite for this reason, its all perfectly explainable"... this never happens, hence my ranting, you guys have nothing and sadly it just confirms this stuff to be right, otherwise you'd be on it like a shot proving why it had to be 19 Arabs. There is no proof it was, if there is, then show it me.

No one ever disproves what Stephen E Jones found, or the molten metal under the towers for weeks afterwards, or Larry Silverstein slipping up on PBS saying "pull it" about building 7, or the BBC reporting building 7 had already fell when at that time the building was still standing and did for another 20 minutes, no one ever shows how only a paper passport survived a fireball that destroyed everything else... yeah, one anomaly I could let slide, we all can... but not fifty anomalies - then we have a solid case I'm afraid. I just choose to accept that whereas most people can't because they live in some sort of bubble/fantasy. I was doing that myself until I inadvertently grew up.

slowmart

Manc33 wrote:

RDW wrote:

That's an excellent description of the way conspiracy theorists typically think. Once you start believing that 9/11 was 'controlled demolition', or that ISIS is secretly controlled by MI6, any evidence to the contrary, even blindingly obvious evidence that clearly shows the whole thing is nonsense, is selectively ignored.

How do you go back and say there is no evidence of something there is evidence for?

For example thermite residue was found on the 911 rubble by Stephen E Jones (a doctor and physics professor covering decades - who was fired soon after making these claims) then people selectively say "Oh that can't be true because I don't think it would be". What great investigative skills those are. :shock:

Stephen E Jones still found thermate residue on the 911 rubble whether you think that's outrageous or not. I know it is outrageous - but he still found it regardless and it is solid evidence, which people would rather ignore because they don't want to go there. I used to be like that myself until I started actually taking notice of what people (usually experts in their field) are trying to tell us.

Its easier pretending none of this stuff is true, I know that, I agree, it is. Doesn't make any of it go away though does it.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=therm ... en+E+Jones

Next comes the "Oh is this the same Stephen E Jones that once stuck his junk in a fluffy toy" and again people just choose to believe some stupid slander about him just to once again ignore what he discovered. Go on, do it... find some stupid crap about him that isn't even true.

I'm amazed as I always thought the fundamentalists who hijacked the aircraft were responsible but clearly a fully fueled aircraft travelling at flying speed would not have a detrimental impact on the structural integrity of a building. Maybe it was the government who packed the twin towers with explosive? Then again the tests performed by a teacher could have been flawed as there is no mention as to the integrity of the data or issues of cross contamination? Further the leading forensic scientists who appeared for the prosecution of the Birmingham bombers testified on oath that the defendants had actually tested positive for plastic explosives when in actual fact that evidence was found to be unreliable?

Manc33

Slowmart wrote:

I'm amazed as I always thought the fundamentalists who hijacked the aircraft were responsible but clearly a fully fueled aircraft travelling at flying speed would not have a detrimental impact on the structural integrity of a building.

No plane hit building 7. The fact that I have to explain this every time proves people know very little about what happened that day, yet all the same - try to argue they do.

Slowmart wrote:

Maybe it was the government who packed the twin towers with explosive? Then again the tests performed by a teacher could have been flawed as there is no mention as to the integrity of the data or issues of cross contamination?

He was a professor of 35 years, not just a "teacher". Nice try.

What cross-contamination?

Thermite is not used when building structures, it is used to demolish them.

Slowmart wrote:

Further the leading forensic scientists who appeared for the prosecution of the Birmingham bombers testified on oath that the defendants had actually tested positive for plastic explosives when in actual fact that evidence was found to be unreliable?

They were obviously being forced to say that.

Have you watched anything at all with Stephen E Jones talking about this stuff?

Just an idea.

thegreatdivide

Manc33 - Rather than quoting from the Big Boys Book Of Aliens & Illuminate why don't you watch something that actually explains what's going on from a man that actually knows things:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0 ... itter-lake

CYCLESPORT1

Just watched some of that. not bad - but you know my views

thegreatdivide wrote:

Manc33 - Rather than quoting from the Big Boys Book Of Aliens & Illuminate why don't you watch something that actually explains what's going on from a man that actually knows things:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0 ... itter-lake

RDW

Although Illuminati-controlled 'independent scientists' dismiss the thermite theory as bunk, Manc33's evidence is good enough for me. However, I do favour a slightly-modified version of the controlled demolition hypothesis:



http://xkcd.com/690/

RDW

thegreatdivide wrote:

Manc33 - Rather than quoting from the Big Boys Book Of Aliens & Illuminate why don't you watch something that actually explains what's going on from a man that actually knows things:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0 ... itter-lake

Adam Curtis is an interesting and talented filmmaker, but I have trouble taking some of his wilder leaps of logic entirely seriously. Assembling a lot of suggestive footage isn't the same as proving a thesis. There's a very sharp parody of his style here, which I dare anyone interested to watch immediately before Bitter Lake (or other Curtis documentary):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg

Manc33

RDW wrote:

Although Illuminati-controlled 'independent scientists' dismiss the thermite theory as bunk...

Dismiss? You can't exactly dismiss this, that's why in the end Stephen E Jones was fired.

If residue was found there's no "dismissing" possible, the residue is there and this is backed up by the molten pools of metal still there under the towers for weeks afterwards.

Let me guess, a bunch of naughty terrorist Arabs planted the molten metal under both the twin towers?

Can you explain this without posting pics of tin foil hats? Nope. Is it absolutely undeniable? Yep. Satellite imagery shows it to be the case, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwgkA5rlwKI
(Firefighters who were there)

Interestingly, the above clip was removed from the final Naudet Brothers film it came from (the 9/11 film with De Niro narrating it) now why would they cut this part out when it is perhaps the most important part? BECAUSE it is the most important part, duh!

Now what will people say... we can't go off firefighters accounts... they must have been conspiring to all say that... yep, just like with everything else we have to make up unrealistic excuses to ignore the information just because we don't like it, oh boo hoo! Try handling it for once. Its not even hard once you start doing it and you realize how duped you always were. I wouldn't mind but people act as though them being duped is something they are doing wrong, well not really if you were lied to. That doesn't mean you're wrong, well it does but by the grace of god, because all the facts were kept from you and only a watered down version (that isn't even true) presented to you by the all pervading hypnotist in the corner.

RDW

Manc33 wrote:

RDW wrote:

Although Illuminati-controlled 'independent scientists' dismiss the thermite theory as bunk...

Dismiss?

If residue was found there's no "dismissing" possible, the residue is there and this is backed up by the molten pools of metal still there under the towers for weeks afterwards.

Let me guess, a bunch of naughty terrorist Arabs planted the molten metal under both the twin towers?

Can you explain this without posting pics of tin foil hats? Nope. Is it absolutely undeniable? Yep. Satellite imagery shows it to be the case, sorry.

Didn't you read my post? I'm on your side! We may differ about certain minor details, but surely we can both agree that Skull and Bones planned the whole thing on the orders of the Priory of Sion? As you say, absolutely undeniable!

Manc33

RDW wrote:

Didn't you read my post? I'm on your side! We may differ about certain minor details, but surely we can both agree that Skull and Bones planned the whole thing on the orders of the Priory of Sion? As you say, absolutely undeniable!

That's not "as I say" because I never mentioned "Skull and Bones" or "Priory of Sion". Only you did.

You sound like the TV mentioning Bin Laden when they talk about 9/11.

I suppose it saves having to think about any of it.

RDW

Manc33 wrote:

I suppose it saves having to think about any of it.

Perish the thought.


http://xkcd.com/966/

chris_bass

My favourite 911 film is the one saying back to the future was warning us about it or predicting it or something, look it up on YouTube, its great.

Or the one were an ex military 'expert' claims the planes we saw were actually just holograms and no planes actually hit the towers

Or the one were an experienced engineer claim it was in fact a ball the hit the towers not a plane and that caused it to come down

Funny thing about people who have been fired or have an axe to grind is that they often make wild claims

slowmart

Manc33 wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

I'm amazed as I always thought the fundamentalists who hijacked the aircraft were responsible but clearly a fully fueled aircraft travelling at flying speed would not have a detrimental impact on the structural integrity of a building.

No plane hit building 7. The fact that I have to explain this every time proves people know very little about what happened that day, yet all the same - try to argue they do.

Slowmart wrote:

Maybe it was the government who packed the twin towers with explosive? Then again the tests performed by a teacher could have been flawed as there is no mention as to the integrity of the data or issues of cross contamination?

He was a professor of 35 years, not just a "teacher". Nice try.

What cross-contamination?

Thermite is not used when building structures, it is used to demolish them.

Slowmart wrote:

Further the leading forensic scientists who appeared for the prosecution of the Birmingham bombers testified on oath that the defendants had actually tested positive for plastic explosives when in actual fact that evidence was found to be unreliable?

They were obviously being forced to say that.

Have you watched anything at all with Stephen E Jones talking about this stuff?

Just an idea.

No one has stated that building 7 was hit by an aircraft. Is it beyond reason to suggest fire damage caused the collapse?

Clearly both towers were hit by aircraft or are you disputing that aspect?

Remember the MMR vaccine and the associated report suggesting a link between the inoculation and autism? A doctor wrote that report which was published in the Lancet who was found later to have a undisclosed conflict of interest. £400k in payments and the loss of his license to practice in this country.

So just because this guy is a Professor doesn't validate his finding. You need to ensure proper forensic processes and procedures in dealing with evidence?

What about the Pentagon, was that explosive or did an aircraft actually hit the building?

We are not the pinnacle of scientific understanding and if you take the corner stone of your argument and the presence of furmite the base chemicals were to be found on board most modern aircraft. Fuel, aluminium and magnesium?

So how far do you take your theory?
1. The US government knew but let it happen
2. The government actually encouraged the act
3. There wasn't any planes and it was US missiles
4. It was Israeli agents filming the event who actually orchestrated and executed the plot

MisterMuncher

Thermite Residue sounds really scary, doesn't it? Unless, of course, you were awake during GCSE chemistry and know it's just Iron Oxide and finely divided Aluminium. Frankly, if you need a deep explanation as to a heap of that came to be among the wreckage of a steel superstructure someone flew tons of Aluminium into, there's little or no help for you. That's assuming anyone did, of course. All we ever have are bald assertions and argument from authority from the truthers.

I also don't understand why Manc (correctly) insists it's a fallacy to dismiss sources from YouTube, whilst in the same breath dismissing TV and such. Perhaps there's some special logic that makes that particular argument valid. Given the complete lack of regard for the full flotilla of logical fallacies demonstrated thus far, I kind of doubt it.

RDW

So just because this guy is a Professor doesn't validate his finding.

Oh come on Slowmart, next you'll be doubting that Nobel prize winner Dr Kary Mullis was really abducted by an alien hologram of a talking raccoon: http://www.davidhalperin.net/the-bioche ... ry-mullis/ . We all need to keep an open mind!

chris_bass

Seems legit

mr_goo

Getting back on topic.

I am getting sick and tired of the the UK Muslim community not taking responsibility for what is a growing problem within their ranks. First we have the three girls who quite clearly knew the consequences of their absconding to join ISIS. Only for some of their relatives to blame the UK authorities for not monitoring their tw4tter and face ache accounts. Then we have this new nest of vipers CAGE that have charitable status, claim to be advocates of representing people who are illegally incarcerated or persecuted. Yet when you check out the website, many if not all of their case studies are extremist Muslims and persona non grata.
I am also getting a little bit tired of some excuses coming from certain forum members that the Christian faith committed unspeakable acts against the Muslim faith. For crying out loud, you cannot surely think that what was done in the name of one religion during the Crusades is an acceptable excuse for what is clearly an attempt by some Muslims to drag humanity back to the dark/Middle Ages?

In summary whilst I acknowledge that it is only an a very small element of the Muslim community that are trundling off to fight in the name of a fairy tale being. The community should be wary. More stories like Jihadi John could start precipitating attacks on them on the streets of UK. I for one do not want to see the start of tit for tat attrocities in our towns and cities. So the sooner the UK Muslim community admits they have a problem, and the sooner government grows a pair and stops tip toeing around the sensibilities of the Muslim faith, the better for ALL.

Manc33

Our media demonizes Muslims therefore our media has the problem, not Muslims.

mr_goo

Manc33 wrote:

Our media demonizes Muslims therefore our media has the problem, not Muslims.

Clearly you are an Islamic advocate. The BBC whilst having this impartiality ethic in their reporting have been at pain and bend over backwards in the defence of Muslims. Those of the printed media that splash their front pages with revelations about the evil deeds that some of the Muslim community commit, should be applauded for highlighting it.

Manc, I would love to see you try and defend the sex abuse cases of recent years, that quite clearly in the majority of instances are committed by Muslims (Pakistanis). Even the authorities acknowledge the problem. So don't give me this cr4p about demonisation of Muslims. There is clearly something inherently at odds with the Muslim culture and it doesn't work within a Western Democratic Society.

Another question that should be asked is this. The UK has welcomed immigrants from around the world for centuries. Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Chinese, Africans, Caribbeans, etc, etc. All coming here to improve their lot in life and accepting of the society and laws. So why is it that Muslims have sought to impose changes our way of life and laws?
No other immigrant demographic except the Muslim community have left home with a rucksack full of explosives on their back to murder innocent civilians on buses and trains.

chris_bass

Mr Goo wrote:

Manc, I would love to see you try and defend the sex abuse cases of recent years, that quite clearly in the majority of instances are committed by Muslims (Pakistanis).

yeah, I mean it is a good job that Priests or other people in power in other religions are never caught up in sex abuse claims or scandals, i'm very pleased that never happens.

orraloon

Mr Goo wrote:

the sex abuse cases of recent years, that quite clearly in the majority of instances are committed by Muslims

Jimmy Saville was muslim? :shock:

veronese68

Mr Goo wrote:

the sex abuse cases of recent years, that quite clearly in the majority of instances are committed by Muslims

On an international level, I must presume this means India is a Muslim country.
What was the name of the campaign group over here that was actively trying to get paedophilia accepted and the age of consent lowered to little more than a toddler in the 1970's? Were they all Muslims?

RDW

Mr Goo wrote:

Manc33 wrote:

Our media demonizes Muslims therefore our media has the problem, not Muslims.

Clearly you are an Islamic advocate.

Someone remind me, what's the opposite of 'Advocate' in this context? 'Opponent'? 'Antagonist'? or just 'Bigot'?

Manc33

Mr Goo wrote:

Clearly you are an Islamic advocate.

No, I don't really know much about Islam, except that usury is forbidden - that doesn't mean they don't do it, but it is forbidden under their religion and I have to hold my hands up and applaud that, who wouldn't... unless you're a banker. :roll:

Your attitude towards Muslims is probably a result of our media demonizing Muslims and nothing else! The power they have over society is incredible.

All they have to do is single out cases of Muslim criminality and voila, Muslims are some sort of scum. :roll:

No one race or nation is any worse or better than any other, but you wouldn't think that looking at the news.

If we are supposed to be stamping out racism why does the BBC bang on endlessly about Iran getting nuclear weapons? We have them ourselves! :shock: We have them ourselves.

Isn't this alone causing needless confusion among people? It even puts people in a position they never subscribed to - I mean we're being told these Persians can't have nuclear weapons but simultaneously, it's OK for us to have them. There is the racism right there and we are all told hey, don't be racist! If you can understand how screwed up all of that is you might be on the way to escaping that way of thinking - assuming people are terrorists and so on.

There's probably been more IRA terrorism on British soil in the last 50 years than Muslims. The other thing is, our defences are such that Muslims could not take over Britain, they already would have mounted an effort by now. Even if they are gearing up for something, they wouldn't get far. Why then are we always being told to fear Muslim terrorists?! This is why I always say unless there's nutty Arabs running around the streets with AK-47's I don't care! I know every major terrorist event is just that, an event, its staged, it ain't even above board.

Thing is what if some of us in the public just aren't conceited enough to think other people are scum just because they are Muslim? As a white guy I hate how people in the middle east probably hate me for the lies they have been told about us. It works both ways, Muslims get lied to about us, we get lied to about Muslims.

In Iraq for example the Pentagon owns the media now. Do you think the truth is going to be told about how Iraq was illegally invaded on a pack of lies? Hardly! It will praise the US for liberating Iraq and so on. The whole reason why the Pentagon has to own the media there and it can't be a real media. Everything else would come out.

Mr Goo wrote:

So why is it that Muslims have sought to impose changes our way of life and laws?

Muslims aren't going to change our way of life in this country, even by using the legal system. I don't care about it when I know the public wouldn't put up with it. Its like never crossing the road because you might get run over, you can just never cross the road... but you don't. Its all about the risk assessment. Our media just exaggerates that risk/threat.

Mr Goo wrote:

No other immigrant demographic except the Muslim community have left home with a rucksack full of explosives on their back to murder innocent civilians on buses and trains.

Watch 7/7 Ripple Effect.

MisterMuncher

The "Muslim community" don't have to do a damned thing. Collective responsibility and guilt by association are cowardly and mentally broken ways of approaching the world. They bear no more responsibility for ISIS and this lunatic than the average British Protestant does for the Shankill Butchers.

RDW

Watch 7/7 Ripple Effect.

Connoisseurs of conspiracy theories will find this one especially fascinating. It's the work of John Anthony Hill, or as he prefers to be known, 'JAH' (his initials spell a name of God - geddit?), Muad’Dib (the messianic hero of Dune) or Elijah. To cut to the chase, he has the Icke-like belief that he's the Messiah*.

http://mtrial.org/muaddib/reasons

'The real power behind the N.W.O. is not any human, but Satan, and the N.W.O. is his evil mimic of God’s Kingdom on Earth. All attempts to thwart or defeat Satan’s N.W.O. are doomed to fail, UNLESS they are GOD’S WAY of doing it. The ONLY Person on Earth who knows Father’s Will and is actively living It, is Muad’Dib. Your only chance of survival is through helping Him, to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, whose side you are on. As these End-times get progressively worse, in fulfillment of the Warnings delivered to mankind through God’s Prophets, the Truth of this will become clearer and clearer, even to those who are still sleeping in the dust of the earth (inside Adams and Eves) and have not awakened spiritually.'

http://jahtruth.net/emmau2.htm

'I could easily go into much more detail, if necessary, but perhaps you have already arrived at Emmaus, by taking this short-cut, and have found your Rabboni and King? NO-ONE else but the King could possibly break the Seals, understand and fulfill the Prophecies, because Father told Daniel exactly that in Daniel 10:21, which I have already quoted, previously, and I also said so myself, in chapter 5, of my Revelation to John. JAH'

Edit: He's also a bit of a fan of Star Wars though, to his credit, not of the prequels:

http://jahtruth.net/starwar.htm

'George Lucas quite naturally believes that he wrote "Starwars", when, in reality, he was told telepathically what to write in the original first three Episodes (4-6), by the very "Force" to which the films refer, and was "forced" to make only episodes 4-6, first, as a very important step in the preparation of mankind for the long-awaited TRUTH, about the real reasons for human life on Earth ("what on earth am I doing here?"), the meaning of life and its purpose, contained in "The Way home or face The Fire", from which episodes 1-3 should have been made, as I did my best, frequently, to tell him.

Unfortunately George Lucas has exercised his "Free-will"; ignored me and made Episode 1 - "The Phantom Menace"; with arrogant actors who publicly ridicule the real message and the real fans, which undermines the original theme and Divine Message; contradicts it and is mere fiction (lies), telepathically fed to him by the Dark-side force (Satan), to try to confuse everyone and undo the good (God's) message contained in the earlier three films (Episodes 4-6). This is Satan's standard-practice and very predictable. He has done it with the Old Testament; New Testament and Koran and the three major religions who claim to be based on them.'

*or a very naughty boy

chris_bass

He seems entirely sane and a stand up kind of guy then

rick_chasey

Mr Goo wrote:

Another question that should be asked is this. The UK has welcomed immigrants from around the world for centuries. Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Chinese, Africans, Caribbeans, etc, etc. All coming here to improve their lot in life and accepting of the society and laws. So why is it that Muslims have sought to impose changes our way of life and laws?
No other immigrant demographic except the Muslim community have left home with a rucksack full of explosives on their back to murder innocent civilians on buses and trains.

How familiar are you with British colonialism and how the British Empire was achieved and maintained?

Here's a few clues - it was Brits turning up to countries, telling them how to live their lives whilst pointing guns at them. When locals refused, they were shot. There are even a few films about it. Even a few famous ones. Ever wonder why the locals in zulu were so upset? Getting killed in their own land by a bunch of foreigners who believed in a religion they didn't?

So have a little more historical perspective when you start bandying that kind of chat around. You'll find that almost everything you accuse any particular creed, religion, or colour of, is, or has been, done by all the others.

Why is that? Because they're all made up of humans, and bad things are done by humans. It's human nature.

FWIW, by your logic, we should refused to let anyone with two hands be allowed to exist, because, let's face it, every peado I've ever heard about had a two hands.

RDW

Chris Bass wrote:

He seems entirely sane and a stand up kind of guy then

Well, you really can't fault him on The Phantom Menace.

ballysmate

MisterMuncher wrote:

The "Muslim community" don't have to do a damned thing. Collective responsibility and guilt by association are cowardly and mentally broken ways of approaching the world. They bear no more responsibility for ISIS and this lunatic than the average British Protestant does for the Shankill Butchers.

This of course is true, they don't have to do anything, but it is surely in their interests to do so. After all, terrorists ' bombs are indiscriminate aren't they? They don't leave members of any particular cult or religion unscathed. How many Muslims were travelling on the bus or tube when the bombs went off?
Your analogy with northern Ireland is pertinent. The murderers on both sides were able to evade justice because they were protected within their communities. People had the power to denounce them and failure to do so let the terrorists continue their campaigns.
As regards the apologists wearing hair shirts and indulging in self flagellation about Britain's past, look at who Isis is fighting. They are fighting Iraqis Kurds and Libyans, all Muslim. It would be bizarre thinking to be so driven by hatred for Britain and the West's past actions against Muslims to decide that I am going to join an organisation to kill even more. Because regardless of the high profile news stories, the majority of people suffering are fellow Muslims, albeit a different sect. The isolated acts of terrorism in the West by Isis seem to be directed at those who they deem to have offended their thin skinned make believe leader.
Unless of course the master plan is to create their Caliphate and then carry the fight to the western democracies, in which case they should be sent to their paradise to make the most of the many virgins they have been promised. May they all look like Anne Widdecombe.