Carbon Hardtails...

Don B

As above, are many people still using carbon framed hardtails, or is that not a done thing anymore?
Curious, as I have seen many carbon full suss machines costing thousands, but few hardtails.

Also, are there potential issues with buying a second hand (4 years old) carbon framed hardtail?
Would love to hear people's thoughts.

(p.s. searched the forums and couldn't see anything MTB related)

Chunkers1980

Seriously?

Don B

Quite.

And apologies, I should explain, I suppose I'm looking more into the pros and cons, but searched the forums and found nothing in relation to MTBs, only road bikes

Chunkers1980

The pros and cons versus what? HT carbon or HT not carbon?

Carbon (save for a little bit of hydro formed aluminium) is great at depending on the lay-up you can make it 'do' different things in different parts of the bike.

Don B

That's what I'm getting at alright, versus Alu hardtail, have a scandium framed Kona hardtail at the moment, and wondering if there's any major pitfalls in going for carbon over the alu.

For trail riding, is it really an issue, is a carbon framed MTB going to be dangerous if you have an off?

Chunkers1980

Watch some videos on you tube. search how strong is carbon. metal vs fibre for example. You'll be amazed.

rockmonkeysc

I heard carbon goes soggy when it gets wet.

Don B

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I heard carbon goes soggy when it gets wet.

Yes, heard that too

Lots of conflicting stories out there, some saying avoid, some saying carbon is stronger.
Invariably, you'll part company from the bike at some stage, how hard the bike hits the ground depends, but if a sharp rock edge or something means it's the end of the frame, I'd have to rethink

rockmonkeysc

A sharp impact can ruin a carbon frame but it can do the same to an aluminium frame. Some carbon frames are stronger than some aluminium frames. Some aluminium frames are so thin that they are dented by even small rock strikes and that dent is then a weak point in the frame.

Manc33

I've had my "fun" with carbon now, the only thing left on my bike made from it is the fork steerer spacers. I pretty much don't trust anything else to be made from it. The only upside to it is its shock absorption, even the lighter weight in the end to me had little appeal when I was strapping on battery packs and using a Brooks saddle. Its all exponential, adding 2lb to a 17lb bike is a big jump, adding 2lb to a 27lb bike, who cares lol. I would rather have peace of mind on my bike.

rockmonkeysc

What carbon frame have you broke? There are good ones and ones.

gazcarsf1

My 2011 Cube reaction (carbon) has done 2500 miles plus, plenty spills, chipped paint etc but no cracks and still going strong. Regularly at Glentress, carron valley, and natural xc trips. Liked it so much I have just bought the 2015 model. No regrets buying carbon!!!

Don B

Thanks for the input, very much appreciated.

Just looked up the Cube Reaction, level of detail on the frame is super, beautiful looking machine. Must be comfy if it's covered that kind of mileage

njee20

Carbon hardtails are still de rigeur in XC racing circles, although FS is getting more common again. Buying a 4 year old one...? Could be perfect, could be wrecked. No correlation between age and condition.

I've got a 19lb 29er carbon hardtail as my only MTB. I love it. Personally if I was buying a trail bike I'd go FS though.

WindyG

I am seeing generally speaking a 50/50 split between hardtails and FS for XC racing, I am actually enjoying racing on my carbon hardtail more than I was on a FS bike.
I am tempted to get a carbon 650b Anthem but not sure if I would race if or not.

njee20

It's cyclical. Back in the day everyone was on 26" hardtails, then 26" FS became more common, then everyone was on 29" hardtails, now more and more are shifting to FS. Not surprising I guess as bikes evolve, FS become lighter etc.

Manc33

My favourite bike of all time happens to be carbon and FS... Cannondale Raven

They can still be found to this day on eBay. :twisted:

Don B

Thanks for all the feedback, very helpful

andy37

In our gang there has been a big switch in the last 12 mnths and now 80% are riding carbon ht 29ers. On Saturday i borrowed a felt 4 for the day and had such a blast (orange 5 as my main bike), sure it would not suit if you were battering down big rocky descents but on most of the local terrain it was fine. The big wheels have lots of grip but the main thing i found was how light it was and easy to lift the front and jump off the smallest kickers, ohh and the obvious climbing ability it had. Im now looking at getting a Canyon Grand Canyon CF and joining the crowd.
A final note is that we dont hang around and although we also dont crash much the frames are holding up just fine, i think for longevity it is important to buy a frame with a good lay up.

Don B

Interesting, thanks for that.

njee20

A final note is that we dont hang around and although we also dont crash much the frames are holding up just fine, i think for longevity it is important to buy a frame with a good lay up.

Eh? How the hell do you tell a frame with a good lay up? Can you give an example of such a frame? Or, more significantly, one with a bad lay up?

Don B

It's a 4 year old Kona Kula Watt carbon I'm looking at...not sure if anyone here has experience of them

njee20

A couple of friends raced them, no real issues. Kona were real late comers to carbon frames, they were nice enough frames, but nowt special, not very light or anything. Quite a racy frame.

Don B

That's good to hear, need something sturdy, I don't imagine the geometry would be much different to the Cindercone I have at present

njee20

Aye, I have a vague feeling they were just open mould frames, so Kona may not have had much say in the geometry. I may be being unfair though.

andy37

[/quote]Eh? How the hell do you tell a frame with a good lay up? Can you give an example of such a frame? Or, more significantly, one with a bad lay up?[/quote]

Well this is the thing unless you know the fine details in carbon fibre manufacturing and see which manufacturers use which process/materials etc then you just have to go off reputation, marketing info and reviews or more to the point bad reviews.
For example i would never buy a frame such as on-one as i have seen one of there frames sheer at the headstock. But our lot are running carbon Felt (finish a little poor but nice ride), Sensa (good bike), Merida, Lapiere and Canyon and have had no issues although as i originally stated these are under a year old.

njee20

Really? You take the marketing material to be indicative of the quality of a frame!? Do you possibly think people writing that may have a small vested interest...!?

Frames break. You saw a single On One break, so you'd never buy one, but you think Lapierre are reliable? That's genuinely laughable.

There aren't really any duff frames out there these days. Anything can break, most things won't. Even among frames that are prone to breaking it will be a small proportion that do so. You pays your money and takes your choice, guff about buying based on the quality of the layup is utter tosh though.

The Rookie

Lapierre crackier, a mate at work is on his third rear triangle.......well known for it so how you can say they have had no issues is totally beyond me!

I've never seen any marketing material that says 'our frames are good, but if you want to buy a really great frame buy from X instead'!

And its their frames, not there frames.....

I'll need a large packet of sodium chloride prior to reading future posts!

Chunkers1980

And it's their frames, not there frames. If you're going to correct at least get it correct yourself.

Ferrals

Doesnt seem that contentious to say get a carbon frame from a well known brand? wordings a bit off talking about lay-up but the sentiment seems reasonable.
I'm currently lusting after a pivot Les 27.5 frame, they look great! light, good geo and good reviews. I was close to getting one on finance but unfortunatley common sense got the better of me

njee20

Ferrals wrote:

Doesnt seem that contentious to say get a carbon frame from a well known brand? wordings a bit off talking about lay-up but the sentiment seems reasonable.

Depends what you call well known I guess. I'd sooner buy direct from a Chinese brand than have an On One (or indeed a Lapierre or a Merida). My point was that you don't really know anything about the quality aside from perception. No point trying to blind with perceived knowledge talking about "lay up" and what not.