A chance to try out a time trial

Grill

Unfortunately the decline of time trialling and rise of road racing is a nation-wide trend. A lot of this is club driven as BC points seem to be what many are chasing so they forsake CTT events. Crying shame.

briantrumpet

Grill wrote:

Unfortunately the decline of time trialling and rise of road racing is a nation-wide trend. A lot of this is club driven as BC points seem to be what many are chasing so they forsake CTT events. Crying shame.

Indeed.

markos1963

I think you need to be careful and don't overanalyse the situation with TTing. Plenty of races out there oversubscribed and plenty of riders on road bikes. I think more can be done to encourage riders to TT. Beginners events like Ruth's and women's series will all help. All it might take is a few organisers to offer a Roadman category in a race to make it more interesting. The Little Mountain TT is a good example where you get national standard racers on flash kit racing against amateurs on road bikes(like me!) This isn't because of complicated rules it's because its a good race, well run and with prize categories for all classes.

BeaconRuth

Grill wrote:

As I said, there are already non-aero TT's on the CTT calendar (road bikes, no clip-ons) and club TT's are ridiculously accessible.

Grill wrote:

Unfortunately the decline of time trialling and rise of road racing is a nation-wide trend........ Crying shame.

It's not just road racing which is gaining popularity massively, all other aspects of cycling are booming - except time trialling in which open events saw a decline of 4% last season.

Ruth

slowbike

BeaconRuth wrote:

It's not just road racing which is gaining popularity massively, all other aspects of cycling are booming - except time trialling in which open events saw a decline of 4% last season.

The open events around my way seem to be on DCs - I marshalled for our clubs Open 10 last year - on a busy DC* - sorry, but there's no way I'm racing that - it might be a fast course and plenty of people do race it without injury, but I have enough racing on the less busy non-DC roads where the comparative speed of road users is closer.


*Whilst marshalling I saw quite a few "angry drivers" come past - all it takes is for one of those to do a punishment pass that goes wrong and the rider is dead. Coupled with lorries that can't always move out and the speed disparity I'm staying off those roads.

The only time I'd race a DC is if I knew it wouldn't be busy - like an interclub event at the end of last season with about 3 miles on DC - it was early sunday morning - that was ok.

briantrumpet

Slowbike wrote:

The open events around my way seem to be on DCs - I marshalled for our clubs Open 10 last year - on a busy DC* - sorry, but there's no way I'm racing that - it might be a fast course and plenty of people do race it without injury, but I have enough racing on the less busy non-DC roads where the comparative speed of road users is closer.

And that's partly my concern with where TTing has gone: the goal for the serious folk tends to be absolute time (fast DC courses, fancy gear, etc), whereas the most interesting bit for me is the relative ranking on the day (and my assessment of my own ride), on a course that is nice to ride, and relatively safe. I don't think that choosing courses primarily for fast times does anything to encourage new entrants to the sport.

BeaconRuth

briantrumpet wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

The open events around my way seem to be on DCs - I marshalled for our clubs Open 10 last year - on a busy DC* - sorry, but there's no way I'm racing that - it might be a fast course and plenty of people do race it without injury, but I have enough racing on the less busy non-DC roads where the comparative speed of road users is closer.

And that's partly my concern with where TTing has gone: the goal for the serious folk tends to be absolute time (fast DC courses, fancy gear, etc), whereas the most interesting bit for me is the relative ranking on the day (and my assessment of my own ride), on a course that is nice to ride, and relatively safe. I don't think that choosing courses primarily for fast times does anything to encourage new entrants to the sport.

I agree with both of you whole-heartedly... but try having this discussion with a bunch of DC-loving time triallists. The arguments about use of DCs go on and on. Meanwhile, IMO, it is the one of the greatest hindrances to newcomers getting involved. And the national governing body continues to encourage people to seek out the fastest DC courses by having event-entry and competitions based on fastest performances, regardless of where the performance is done or whether you're beaten by 3 other people or 100 other people... You couldn't devise a more silly system with a worse emphasis or more unhelpful consequences if you tried.

Ruth

napoleond

The problem with open TTs I find is how stuck in the old days the entry system/CTT is, it's slowly coming in to the modern world with some internet entries but most of the Manchester series events are still chequebook and entry form. I've only entered one postal event this year and haven't heard back yet.

Almost all road races can be entered online.

briantrumpet

NapoleonD wrote:

The problem with open TTs I find is how stuck in the old days the entry system/CTT is, it's slowly coming in to the modern world with some internet entries but most of the Manchester series events are still chequebook and entry form. I've only entered one postal event this year and haven't heard back yet.

Almost all road races can be entered online.

And add to that that if you point people to the CTT website to enter an event, you need to give them a step-by-step guide to find the event and how to enter, it all adds up to a perfect way to deter new entrant, certainly for those outside the club system. If you devised a structure to put people off entering the world of TTing, what with the DC-absolute-time-is-the-goal mentality of many TTers, and a difficult-to-make-an-entry system, you couldn't do much better than the one we've got.

If CTT aren't asking serious questions about how participation can be falling when all other forms of road riding are in spectacular ascendancy, they need to do some serious thinking about what on earth they are there for. Whatever their faults, at least BC are really looking to the future with how they encourage new entrants to the sport, at all levels and ages. The same can't be said of CTT.

briantrumpet

Anyway, hurrah to any clubs that do run events that target new riders - it can be done, but only despite the system we've got, not because of it.

napoleond

Daft code letters for class of event don't help. I've entered two incorrectly already this year.

markos1963

Put into perspective on the TTF with organisers seemingly proud about how late they can send out start sheets!

telesv650

Cut the bull, this is the simplest of sports.

The only person you are racing is yourself and possibly your mates. It is that simple.
Who cares if you do the race on a £3k carbon TT bike or a £50 steel knacker? The only thing that matters is your opinion of your efforts.

Cycling can appear intimidating, but it is a veneer. Peel it back and the sport is only to happy to help newcomers. My advise as a new starter, give it your all. Everyone respects the person who gives 100% regardless of speed and if they don't, you know you gave it everything. Feel proud of that.

If you like it, go back next time and try to better yourself.

briantrumpet

telesv650 wrote:

Cut the bull, this is the simplest of sports.

Exactly - that's why it's frustrating that there are enough things putting people off giving it a go resulting in falling number of participants. It's a bit like if you were a banker and weren't getting a bonus while all the others were going to HSBC for tax advice, you might start wondering if you weren't quite getting it right...

TTs should be bursting at the seams. They aren't.

slowbike

BeaconRuth wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

The open events around my way seem to be on DCs - I marshalled for our clubs Open 10 last year - on a busy DC* - sorry, but there's no way I'm racing that - it might be a fast course and plenty of people do race it without injury, but I have enough racing on the less busy non-DC roads where the comparative speed of road users is closer.

And that's partly my concern with where TTing has gone: the goal for the serious folk tends to be absolute time (fast DC courses, fancy gear, etc), whereas the most interesting bit for me is the relative ranking on the day (and my assessment of my own ride), on a course that is nice to ride, and relatively safe. I don't think that choosing courses primarily for fast times does anything to encourage new entrants to the sport.

I agree with both of you whole-heartedly... but try having this discussion with a bunch of DC-loving time triallists. The arguments about use of DCs go on and on. Meanwhile, IMO, it is the one of the greatest hindrances to newcomers getting involved.

I'm not sure that Open TTs are the best place for newcomers anyway - far better they get involved in the club TTs under "Come and Try" where things tend to be a bit more relaxed and informal.

keef66

BeaconRuth wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

The open events around my way seem to be on DCs - I marshalled for our clubs Open 10 last year - on a busy DC* - sorry, but there's no way I'm racing that - it might be a fast course and plenty of people do race it without injury, but I have enough racing on the less busy non-DC roads where the comparative speed of road users is closer.

And that's partly my concern with where TTing has gone: the goal for the serious folk tends to be absolute time (fast DC courses, fancy gear, etc), whereas the most interesting bit for me is the relative ranking on the day (and my assessment of my own ride), on a course that is nice to ride, and relatively safe. I don't think that choosing courses primarily for fast times does anything to encourage new entrants to the sport.

I agree with both of you whole-heartedly... but try having this discussion with a bunch of DC-loving time triallists. The arguments about use of DCs go on and on. Meanwhile, IMO, it is the one of the greatest hindrances to newcomers getting involved. And the national governing body continues to encourage people to seek out the fastest DC courses by having event-entry and competitions based on fastest performances, regardless of where the performance is done or whether you're beaten by 3 other people or 100 other people... You couldn't devise a more silly system with a worse emphasis or more unhelpful consequences if you tried.

Ruth

I'm always amazed when I come across a TT being held on the A11 at the weekend. The combination of lorries and caravans together with long entry / exit slip roads is surely an accident waiting to happen. The only consolation is it's quite handy for Addenbrookes hospital.

iron-clover

It does depend on the road tbh, one of my favourite courses is the H10/8 on the A31 between Bentley and Holybourne/ Alton. Yes, it is a DC, but outside of the weekday rush hour it's not a very busy road, and drivers coming up behind can see you for a very long way. I've never had any issues on that road and it feels fairly safe as there is always enough room for others to overtake safely.
I feel safer on there than I do on some single carriageway courses- the notable one being the A420 between Cumnor and Farringdon. It carries about the same amount of traffic as the A31 but its a winding, double white line single carriageway which lends itself to a lot of hairy overtakes.

However, I can't see myself riding on the A3 course near Liss/ Liphook anytime soon, even if it is 'fast'.

keef66

Any idea how much assistance riders get from slipstreaming the passing traffic on a dual carriageway?

slowbike

iron-clover wrote:

I feel safer on there than I do on some single carriageway courses- the notable one being the A420 between Cumnor and Farringdon. It carries about the same amount of traffic as the A31 but its a winding, double white line single carriageway which lends itself to a lot of hairy overtakes.

Well - with those circumstances I can see that DC would be safer ...

iron-clover wrote:

However, I can't see myself riding on the A3 course near Liss/ Liphook anytime soon, even if it is 'fast'.

That's the one I marshalled for - plenty of riders I know and respect are happy on that course, but not me!
Yes, it's fast ...

napoleond

keef66 wrote:

Any idea how much assistance riders get from slipstreaming the passing traffic on a dual carriageway?

A LOT

briantrumpet

Slowbike wrote:

I'm not sure that Open TTs are the best place for newcomers anyway - far better they get involved in the club TTs under "Come and Try" where things tend to be a bit more relaxed and informal.

I agree to an extent (club TTs are exactly as you describe), but I think that there is also a place for friendly open TTs that are inclusive too - our club started a series of Sporting TTs on 'undulating' courses last year, and the spirit was just as friendly and welcoming as club 10s - the nature of the courses put regular TTers out of their comfort zone, so were interesting in many ways, and very enjoyable. Our TT season starts with a hilly 14-miler (https://www.facebook.com/events/1379708429016627/ - if you're interested), and ends with a hill climb proper, both of which attract a pretty diverse entry. I think that if these sorts of events, rather than the super-fast DC-type of opens were more the norm (and promoted better outside of the club world), there would be much greater participation from Joe-Public-on-a-road-bike. There are enough of those who think nothing of paying £30-40 on a sportive and then riding them as if they are in a race (not exactly in a 'relaxed and informal' way) - the question is how best to draw their attention to, and welcome them into TTing.

BeaconRuth

Slowbike wrote:

I'm not sure that Open TTs are the best place for newcomers anyway - far better they get involved in the club TTs under "Come and Try" where things tend to be a bit more relaxed and informal.

Open TTs can't afford to offer themselves as events only for the elite who have TT-specific bikes. There was a 4% decline in participation in open TTs last year which is appalling when you consider how rapidly cycling is growing in every other area - and in a sport where we have the reigning men's World Champion.

I'm not sure why it is better that newcomers should start in 'Come and Try It' events. What difference would it make to the top riders if the (currently) empty half of most open TT fields was filled with new time triallists trying out time trials on road bikes?

Ruth

jgsi

keef66 wrote:

Any idea how much assistance riders get from slipstreaming the passing traffic on a dual carriageway?

I've never been so lucky but the perfect scenario for the local Club 10 is to pick up a Lithuanian 50 tonner (overladen with Yoghurt of course) at the last RB.. then to get in its slip for the 3 1/2 miles of tow before you peel off for the finish.

BeaconRuth

A reminder that this thread started off letting you know about how to enter your first time trial if you fancy doing one but have not yet plucked up courage. The first event in our series of three is this coming Saturday, 11th April.

Enter on the day or you can enter all three events in advance via the website here.

Lots of novices are already signed up - no special bike needed and you don't have to be really fast to have a go!

briantrumpet

Excellent - I'd like that post if I could, Ruth. That's what we should all be doing in some form ... it would be nice if the CTT would take the lead.

stevie63

I hope someone sets up something like this in south norfolk/north Suffolk. If they do I will have a go.

BeaconRuth

briantrumpet wrote:

Excellent - I'd like that post if I could, Ruth. That's what we should all be doing in some form ... it would be nice if the CTT would take the lead.

Can't agree with you more, briantrumpet.

Ruth

BeaconRuth

Well done Oxoman - glad you enjoyed it. You were very unlucky to get delayed at the RAB and it was also a very tough day to try and do a fast ride. The wind was really strong and gusty. I'd say that if you can come back and have another go again then the chances of you improving are very high. What was your time BTW?

Ruth

BeaconRuth

All results here for anyone interested: http://mntts.org.uk/event-1-results

Ruth

briantrumpet

BeaconRuth wrote:

All results here for anyone interested: http://mntts.org.uk/event-1-results

Ruth

Well done to everybody ... and what a fantastic turn-out of women too! Did you ask how many entrants were first-timers?