A chance to try out a time trial

solosuperia

BeaconRuth wrote:

In which other sports would a former World Champion quietly compete alongside total novices and enjoy the experience in such a humble and appreciative way?

I must put forward Steve Ovett for that in athletics. A Sunday afternoon Worthing 10 mile event. Not the most prestigious event in the calendar. He rolls up and asks very politely can he have a run with the boys. The answer was yes with the proviso that he wouldn't be eligible for any prize money as he had entered on the line. We are talking something like a tenner here, it has always amused me that he had possibly won a sack full of cash during the week previous.
The gun went and he ran with the leading group chatting away, he did most of the chatting answering monosyballic questions gasped out by the rest of us. With about 1.5 miles to go he said I better p*ss off now, I sensed that he did that with some regret as he was enjoying himself chatting to the lads.
Whenever he could he always turned out for his club and if not running gave his support.
A real clubmans clubman.

telesv650

Competed in my first TT at the weekend, an open 10 mile event, entered as a senior.

I don't have a TT bike ore even an expensive road bike, I did it on a 15 year old Giant I bought for £120 a few years back. The only mods were a set of £16 ebay Tri bars and setting up the riding position to suit (plenty of tips for this online).

The hardest bit was entering, but the event's orgoniser will help there and pointed me to the correct page on the CTT website.

the CTT website offers lots of tips for first timers but here are mine;
Read the pre-race instructions carefully
Turn up 1 hour early. The HQ is often a distance from the start. Be early and scope this out.
Bring a turbo. Warming up and staying warm is much easier this way.
Turn up at the start 5mins early. Watch the few riders ahead go off
Enjoy. It IS fun!
Shout your number as you cross the finish

I found it very friendly, with people more than happy to help the hapless novice. As a new rider I was one of the first off, the events rank you based on previous time, slowest to quickest.

I came second from last, but will be back to go quicker.

Find the nearest course and give it a go.

BeaconRuth

telesv650 wrote:

I found it very friendly, with people more than happy to help the hapless novice.......Find the nearest course and give it a go.

Amen to that!

Here's a photo of the fastest male novice rider in the novice event we ran on the same course in September. Rob Lawton managed to complete the 10 miles in 25:48 which is mighty impressive for a first time - anything under 30 mins would be good!

Fastest male novice in action

Ruth

Anonymous

oxoman wrote:

but a lot turn up on bikes so blinged up that their wheels cost more than my bike and get mardy when beaten by people on cheaper bikes with flat pedals. ( not me either I just watched).

Can you elaborate on exactly what they did.
How did they show their mardiness?

Were many people doing it with flat pedals?
Did they beat many people who at least bothered to clip in?

Why did they do it with flat pedals? Was it because thats all they had or were they proving some sort of point?

jgsi

Carbonator wrote:

oxoman wrote:

but a lot turn up on bikes so blinged up that their wheels cost more than my bike and get mardy when beaten by people on cheaper bikes with flat pedals. ( not me either I just watched).

Can you elaborate on exactly what they did.
How did they show their mardiness?

Were many people doing it with flat pedals?
Did they beat many people who at least bothered to clip in?

Why did they do it with flat pedals? Was it because thats all they had or were they proving some sort of point?

Seriously, I dont know how Oxoman has got to the opinion he has.
In my timetrialling experience in the modern era, I have never , ever encountered any negativity about equipment used or people's ability .
People do take their testing seriously, whether it is an Open or Club, thats given.. everyone shares the pain for those 10 .. 25 whatever miles.
I ride my road bike and always get the advice to fit some aero bars..I'd be quicker, I know...I know
Thats the point... pays a few quid and you are part of an activity where everyone wants you to do your best.

Anonymous

oxoman wrote:

A local club near me do it every wk in summer, but a lot turn up on bikes so blinged up that their wheels cost more than my bike and get mardy when beaten by people on cheaper bikes with flat pedals.

Can you elaborate on that too please.
How much is your bike? How much are their wheels?
How do you know how much their wheels cost and what they actually paid for them?

If your bikes less than a grand then both my sets of normal looking road wheels cost more (list price) than your bike, as will lots of other guys non TT wheels.

My TT wheels were even more expensive (list price, not what I paid) but whats wrong with getting into a sport and why is the cost of your bike such a benchmark to them being excessive?

Do you routinely question people spending £1000+ on other things/hobbies?

Sorry if I am scrutinising your comments excessively, but I don't think they are A/Fair, B/ Accurate, C/ Good for cycling/cyclists/newbies wanting to TT.

w00dster

Signed up for the April event and looking forward to it, will be my first time trial. I won't be troubling last years time that's for sure.
Will be buying a set of clip on bars and will have a sneaky practice on the turbo before the event. Won't have full on aero wheels, well not TT level, if the weathers ok I may have a set of Bontrager Aelous 3, rrp is expensive but I won't mind being overtaken by the local postman doing his round.
For the other guys taking part, I'm a short, bald guy, probably on a white Trek Madone, say Hi as you come screaming past me!!

simon_e

keef66 wrote:

I'm thinking that time trialling probably isn't for me!

You'll never know until you try!

markos1963 wrote:

Any TT recommended by BeaconRuth must be worth giving a try. I started out TTing at a 'come and try it' event and you couldn't find an easier and more friendly way of going racing. Indeed most evening club 10's are very friendly things and no one, not anyone judges riders performances. The first thing most people will say to you is 'did you PB?" so confirming it's only you and the clock that matters.

My experience too.

It's a most agreeable sport because you're really only racing yourself, and in your first event all you're doing is setting that important benchmark for next week.

I've never come across equipment snobbery or even the slightest hint of catty behaviour; the 'serious' kitted riders are always happy to give tips and encouragement. A PB is a cause for celebration, regardless.

There may be riders on MTBs on flats wearing a Metallica t-shirt, others on their commuting bike with a pannier kept by the signing on table, track bikes and fixed/singlespeed, tandems as well as the speed weaponry. Age and ability is as varied too - we've had riders of all ages from 12 to 85 with times from 21 to over 35mins. And our HQ is a friendly country pub who happily serve food late on a Tuesday in the summer. 8)

My biggest regret is that I didn't start doing it until 2008.

brettjmcc

Sorry for a late entry into the discussion, but over here in Essex, we at Ford CC also allow people who are starters to TTing to turn up, as we have a 'Come and Try It' category. That is how I got into it myself before joining the club. Everyone is friendly and offers massive advice, with not only TTing but just riding in general... and as others have stated it's about how you do against yourself. I set myself goals and used the TTs to achieve them and went from there. Plus it doesn't ruin my weekends, as they are Tuesday evenings

We also offer some additional opportunities for younger and nervous riders. Twice a year we hold events on the Ford test track in Essex (6 laps) on a Thursday (normally May and August). As this is closed roads it is very suitable for under 16 riders and especially people who have not ridden before in a TT and want to try it out. We reserve the opening numbers for younger riders.

We'll also be doing something different this year and holding a TTT with a 3rd event on the track

marcusjb

For those in West London, Westerley CC run time trials on Hillingdon circuit (so traffic free) through summer. I think it is on Wednesday nights from memory and I think they run two categories - one for road bikes (with no aero bars, deep wheels etc allowed). Sounds a good introduction for sure. Let me try and dig out some details.

I haven't done a lot of TTing, but have always found it a very encouraging, friendly scene where riders support one another because for all but a few up at the sharp end, it isn't about competing against each other.

Well worth trying out for something different that will really push you hard and, as I was told on my first ever TT, you are guaranteed a PB first time!

Here we go - http://www.westerley-cycling.org.uk/rac ... ime-trials

2015 dates start in April.

Grill

Carbonator wrote:

oxoman wrote:

A local club near me do it every wk in summer, but a lot turn up on bikes so blinged up that their wheels cost more than my bike and get mardy when beaten by people on cheaper bikes with flat pedals.

Can you elaborate on that too please.
How much is your bike? How much are their wheels?
How do you know how much their wheels cost and what they actually paid for them?

If your bikes less than a grand then both my sets of normal looking road wheels cost more (list price) than your bike, as will lots of other guys non TT wheels.

My TT wheels were even more expensive (list price, not what I paid) but whats wrong with getting into a sport and why is the cost of your bike such a benchmark to them being excessive?

Do you routinely question people spending £1000+ on other things/hobbies?

Sorry if I am scrutinising your comments excessively, but I don't think they are A/Fair, B/ Accurate, C/ Good for cycling/cyclists/newbies wanting to TT.

(Mediocre) Tester here with a wheel collection that would make King Solomon blush. I get beat all the time by people who are younger/older/fatter/thinner/uncoached/new to the sport/new to cycling/on bikes that cost less than my saddle/etc. You know what? I think that's great. The TT community is about as friendly as you can get (second only to audax and the amount of overlap between the two is quite something) and I can remember the last time I saw proper ego at an event. I (and most other testers) care about what I did, not what everyone else has done. That's the beauty of TTing. You can come last but still feel like you won because you set a course/power/distance PB.

Anonymous

My personal feeling is that clip in shoes and clip on bars are a reasonable thing to have early on in TT'ing.
Even if you do not use the bars over the whole distance.

The other things (wheels, aero helmets, skin suits etc.) are added more because you get into it than to beat others times.
The difference that they make is not going to have any effect re people with significantly different times, but will have in your own time.

The whole 'comparing yourself to others' thing is wrong IMO. That's not what it's about.
Not regarding times or equipment.

Grill

Your experience is not indicative of the TT scene. One of our club riders came 2nd or 3rd (a few years ago) on our old hilly TT course riding his mountain bike. We all thought it was great. Comparing a club TT (of a club apparently filled with try-hards with inferiority complexes) to all club TT's and open events is painting with a rather broad brush mate.

slowbike

Plenty of moaning about kit and fitness after our TTs ...

I specifically moan that I'm not fit enough to warrant better kit yet ....

prhymeate

marcusjb wrote:

For those in West London, Westerley CC run time trials on Hillingdon circuit (so traffic free) through summer. I think it is on Wednesday nights from memory and I think they run two categories - one for road bikes (with no aero bars, deep wheels etc allowed). Sounds a good introduction for sure. Let me try and dig out some details.

I haven't done a lot of TTing, but have always found it a very encouraging, friendly scene where riders support one another because for all but a few up at the sharp end, it isn't about competing against each other.

Well worth trying out for something different that will really push you hard and, as I was told on my first ever TT, you are guaranteed a PB first time!

Here we go - http://www.westerley-cycling.org.uk/rac ... ime-trials

2015 dates start in April.

Thanks, I was just about to ask if there was anything similar around SW London. I'd really like to try out a TT some time and see how I do without the usual stoppages of road cycling.

BeaconRuth

Grill wrote:

I (and most other testers) care about what I did, not what everyone else has done. That's the beauty of TTing. You can come last but still feel like you won because you set a course/power/distance PB.

I guess this is what we'd like to get across in putting on three events specifically for novices. There is a tendency to feel that TTs are populated by very fast riders with very expensive, specialist bikes, when that's just not true at a local level.

TBH, in one sense I think the advances in equipment in the last 10-20 years has done the sport of time trialling a real disservice. It is not the only cause, but participation has declined despite the most stupendous growth in cycling in general.

Ruth

slowbike

BeaconRuth wrote:

There is a tendency to feel that TTs are populated by very fast riders with very expensive, specialist bikes, when that's just not true at a local level.

yup - there's a few slow riders with expensive specialist bikes ... and some fast riders with cheap bikes too

One of the fastest guys in our club started last year on a standard roadbike with clip-on bars - I can keep up if I sit in his slipstream ...

simon_masterson

And you really don't have to spend much. My latest build will be rideable before I reach £500, and that's a 753 frame originally handmade for one of the best cyclists this country has ever produced (Boardman), mix of Campag bits, and handbuilt wheels (for now). It's at least as aero as a modern bike costing somewhat more, and most likely lighter.

briantrumpet

BeaconRuth wrote:

TBH, in one sense I think the advances in equipment in the last 10-20 years has done the sport of time trialling a real disservice. It is not the only cause, but participation has declined despite the most stupendous growth in cycling in general.

It would be helpful if local TTs would mark those on non-TT bikes as Sporting entries, thus giving those on non-specialist bikes the possibility of seeing how they stack up against each other - it might give youngsters and those who don't want to go down the fancy equipment route extra incentive to take part. The goal of getting aero for 20-30 minutes on a normal TT bike is a useful and interesting one.

Grill

briantrumpet wrote:

BeaconRuth wrote:

TBH, in one sense I think the advances in equipment in the last 10-20 years has done the sport of time trialling a real disservice. It is not the only cause, but participation has declined despite the most stupendous growth in cycling in general.

It would be helpful if local TTs would mark those on non-TT bikes as Sporting entries, thus giving those on non-specialist bikes the possibility of seeing how they stack up against each other - it might give youngsters and those who don't want to go down the fancy equipment route extra incentive to take part. The goal of getting aero for 20-30 minutes on a normal TT bike is a useful and interesting one.

This wouldn't tell you as much as you think. You can still have people on road bikes hitting 21 and some on TT bikes in the mid-30's (plus what about clip-ons, skinsuits, pointy hats, etc.- they all make a difference). The engine is still the most important thing, all else is secondary.

slowbike

Grill wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

BeaconRuth wrote:

TBH, in one sense I think the advances in equipment in the last 10-20 years has done the sport of time trialling a real disservice. It is not the only cause, but participation has declined despite the most stupendous growth in cycling in general.

It would be helpful if local TTs would mark those on non-TT bikes as Sporting entries, thus giving those on non-specialist bikes the possibility of seeing how they stack up against each other - it might give youngsters and those who don't want to go down the fancy equipment route extra incentive to take part. The goal of getting aero for 20-30 minutes on a normal TT bike is a useful and interesting one.

This wouldn't tell you as much as you think. You can still have people on road bikes hitting 21 and some on TT bikes in the mid-30's (plus what about clip-ons, skinsuits, pointy hats, etc.- they all make a difference). The engine is still the most important thing, all else is secondary.

Exactly ...

I did my first TT last year on a roadbike.
The next ride was on my "converted" roadbike - in that it had clipon bars and I wore a pointy hat.
Part way through the season I altered the shifters to put barend shifters on my clipons.
Throughout the season I slowly lowered my position.

This year I've got a TT frame & bars - I'm not expecting to get better times just because of that - I rather suspect my times will start off slowly again.

briantrumpet

Grill wrote:

This wouldn't tell you as much as you think. You can still have people on road bikes hitting 21 and some on TT bikes in the mid-30's (plus what about clip-ons, skinsuits, pointy hats, etc.- they all make a difference). The engine is still the most important thing, all else is secondary.

Yes, of course the engine is the most important thing (and that, to my mind, is what TTs should be about), and some people on road bikes will go faster than some on TT bikes, but it'll give a better idea of comparing like with like - and, as I say, I think it would encourage more people (especially young riders) to give it a go, knowing that they'll be able to see how they rank compared with others on similar set-ups.

Grill

NASCAR rules? Unless you can giver everyone the same CdA, Crr and course environment I don't see this catching on.

After the engine, position is next. You can still get a great position on a road bike so those in the know will have an 'unfair' advantage shall we say. That said there are several road bike/no clip-on TT's on the calendar.

BeaconRuth

Grill wrote:

NASCAR rules? Unless you can giver everyone the same CdA, Crr and course environment I don't see this catching on.

Even though time trialling started as a sport done on road bikes - and for decades that was how everyone did it? It doesn't have to "catch on"!

After the engine, position is next. You can still get a great position on a road bike so those in the know will have an 'unfair' advantage shall we say. That said there are several road bike/no clip-on TT's on the calendar.

I don't think it is widely understood by everyone outside time trialling that doing TTs on road bikes is perfectly acceptable. I have often heard people comment that they would like to have a go at time trialling but they don't want to (or can't) invest in another bike especially for it.

I think Briantrumpet is absolutely right that the sport of TTing could do a lot more to attract newcomers who don't (and probably won't ever) have a TT bike.

Ruth

Grill

BeaconRuth wrote:

Grill wrote:

NASCAR rules? Unless you can giver everyone the same CdA, Crr and course environment I don't see this catching on.

Even though time trialling started as a sport done on road bikes - and for decades that was how everyone did it? It doesn't have to "catch on"!

You misunderstand. I'm saying that taking all external factors out of the equation won't catch on. It would just be a big Wattbike event.

briantrumpet

Grill wrote:

You misunderstand. I'm saying that taking all external factors out of the equation won't catch on. It would just be a big Wattbike event.

Apologies, but I'll admit I'm not quite sure what you're arguing against. All BeaconRuth and I are saying (correct me if I'm wrong, BR) is that we might attract more riders to TTing if we can attract more people who don't want (ever, or yet) to invest in fancy TT gear. Recognising that this places them at a disadvantage, and giving the scope for a separate category, can be one way of encouraging these people. Still, within that category, the engine is most important thing, but just like with a full TT set up, getting as aero as possible, and in a position where you can deliver that power for 20-30 minutes, is going to bring similar advantages as it does on a TT set-up. I can't see how this has any relationship to Wattbikes, as neither of us is suggesting taking "all external factors out of the equation", just encouraging more people to TT. It is sad to witness the explosion of keen riders on the roads (and in road racing), but not seeing that follow through to TTing. TTs should be bursting at the seams in the current climate. Anything that helps to turn the tide must be a good thing, surely?

Grill

As I said, there are already non-aero TT's on the CTT calendar (road bikes, no clip-ons) and club TT's are ridiculously accessible.

briantrumpet

Grill wrote:

As I said, there are already non-aero TT's on the CTT calendar (road bikes, no clip-ons) and club TT's are ridiculously accessible.

And yet numbers are quite static (at least in this neck of the woods). I agree that club TTs are pretty accessible (especially if you're a member of a club), but I'm sure there's more scope to draw people in, without disrupting those folk whose pursuit of speed does involve pointy hats and fancy bikes (which includes several friends of mine.)

Grill

Suppose it depends on the area. There are 5 weekly club TT's within a few miles of my house. Lots of first timers and everyone seems to have a blast regardless of what others do.

briantrumpet

Grill wrote:

Suppose it depends on the area. There are 5 weekly club TT's within a few miles of my house. Lots of first timers and everyone seems to have a blast regardless of what others do.

We've just got one weekly one, shared between three clubs, anything from about 12 up to 30-odd riders. (I'll admit we are extremely limited on good non-DC courses round here in easy-to-reach (and close to population centres) locations. Most of them are open only to CTT-registered club members. And yes, we do get quite a wide range of entries, but I'm pretty sure there's an untapped market out there amongst the people new to road riding. Maybe they just prefer turning up to road races with no group riding skills and crashing.