Arming the Police

chris_bass

I really wasn't expecting this thread to get back on topic!

Manc33

Criminals wouldn't only need a gun because police have them, but police having them could be what pushes them to get one when they already were thinking about it. It depends on cops training but if a criminal thinks a cop won't shoot him if he has his own gun, he would get one. If some criminal is wanted for something that will have him in jail for a long stretch, he won't care about gun possession charges.

If a situation is that bad, special units should be used where they are armed. I don't think its necessary to arm "all" cops, but I do think its necessary to have armed cops available at all times as backup to all the unarmed cops.

If some criminal with a gun was pointing it at an unarmed cop in some house being busted and he understood he would be shot as soon as he comes to the door (by other armed cops aiming at the house) he wouldn't be shooting that cop! In the current state of affairs such situations don't happen because you don't have a certain percentage armed. I mean 8 cops could show up to a house, two should be armed or whatever. Not sure if thats a "routine" thing now but I doubt it is.

To just have it so criminals don't know if the cop is armed or not is enough of a deterrent. Its not about arming "all cops" or "no cops". You could go from criminals knowing the cop hasn't got a gun, to thinking he might have one.

Then of course the problem of criminals stealing guns from the police is introduced. :roll: Has happened a few times in the US where the criminal gets hold of the cops gun and it doesn't end well.

wannabecyclist

I am currently training at Hendon and the recent talk from a firearms specialist mentioned only 30% of candidates who allied pass the taser course. This means arming police in greater numbers with actual firearms would never happen as thankfully we have high standards to pass for those wishing to qualify for these departments and the cost involved of training 32k police office in just the Met for only a small percentage to pass would be too high.

ben@31

Manc33 wrote:

Criminals wouldn't only need a gun because police have them, but police having them could be what pushes them to get one when they already were thinking about it. It depends on cops training but if a criminal thinks a cop won't shoot him if he has his own gun, he would get one. If some criminal is wanted for something that will have him in jail for a long stretch, he won't care about gun possession charges.

How about if the police forces start recruiting well trained athletic runners, will it make the criminals eat healthier and go to the gym so they can run away faster?

Manc33

Being chased on foot is hardly a matter of life or death.

pblakeney

Manc33 wrote:

Being chased on foot is hardly a matter of life or death.

That may depend on your fitness level.

ben@31

Manc33 wrote:

Being chased on foot is hardly a matter of life or death.

Depends what they're going to do to you once they catch you?
You try telling a cute fluffy gazelle who's just been outran by a cheatah "hardly a matter of life or death mate, is it?
"
I imagine it would be worth running faster to avoid some prison sentences, can't be a nice life in some of the worlds prisons.

Manc33

Cops getting guns would make certain criminals get guns because it is a matter of survival.

Cops becoming athletes doesn't make criminals become athletes, why would it?

You might as well suggest criminals want to wear uniforms.

Its probably better that they don't because that might introduce some legitimacy.

pblakeney

Manc33 wrote:

Cops getting guns would make certain criminals get guns because it is a matter of survival.

Cops becoming athletes doesn't make criminals become athletes, why would it?

It is a simple matter of fight or flight. They don't want to get caught so they simply have to win the fight or the foot race. Survival, as you say.
Laziness means it is easier to buy a gun than get fast.
So the Police have to get guns.
Ever decreasing circles.

ben@31

Manc33 wrote:

You might as well suggest criminals want to wear uniforms.

Manc33

ben@31

ai_1

Manc33 wrote:

Cops getting guns would make certain criminals get guns because it is a matter of survival...

I really don't think this is a realistic argument.
I reckon survival chances go down, not up, if someone aims a gun at a police officer.
Nevertheless, escalation is rarely if ever a solution to conflict. That goes for politics, military conflict and crime. If police don't have a very real and specific need to have guns, they shouldn't have them. So I would agree with those suggesting that some armed police should be available when needed but that most members of the police force should NOT be armed.
Look at the US example. Proliferation of guns, bigger prison population than any other country and has gun crime or crime in general been cured.......absolutely not.

bompington

Ai_1 wrote:

Manc33 wrote:

Cops getting guns would make certain criminals get guns because it is a matter of survival...

I really don't think this is a realistic argument.
I reckon survival chances go down, not up, if someone aims a gun at a police officer.
Nevertheless, escalation is rarely if ever a solution to conflict.

All very true, but a degree in advanced thinking skills has never been an entry requirement for a career in crime...

ballysmate

Manc not visited today, has he been picked up by the spooks?

rick_chasey

Manc33 wrote:

Being chased on foot is hardly a matter of life or death.

It was literally for this chap who ran from the police, and was then shot.

https://news.vice.com/article/graphic-b ... ng-suspect

(there's a fairly graphic body cam video of the policeman shooting the runner dead).

slowmart

Rick Chasey wrote:

Manc33 wrote:

Being chased on foot is hardly a matter of life or death.

It was literally for this chap who ran from the police, and was then shot.

https://news.vice.com/article/graphic-b ... ng-suspect

(there's a fairly graphic body cam video of the policeman shooting the runner dead).

"runner" is widely incorrect and misleading, why not jogger? :roll:


Add the threats to kill, resisting arrest and he is also armed. As the suspect is running away he drops his gun and turns to pick it up at which point the copper discharges his weapon and the guy turns and runs. Why pick up a weapon if you don't intend to use it while being chased by a armed police officer, let alone face the copper bearing down on you while you retrieve your weapon.

At which point would you have raised and fired your weapon? This cop has no immediate back up and chases the armed suspect. Brave bloke and the footage while graphic shows how quickly life changing decisions have to be made. How about the guy who gets shot being responsible for his own actions? Carrying firearms and altercations with police don't add up for a happy outcome.

Wow there's notion.

Is Rick your alter ego and your really logging on from New York and your real life name is Bill de Blasio?

slowmart

Ballysmate wrote:

Manc not visited today, has he been picked up by the spooks?

Extraordinary rendition is nothing new and a cover for alien abuctions while a manc ( greasy, chav like and looking in need of a fix) was spotted lurking suspiciously on the run way just before the Greek fighter jet crashed on take off at the Spanish military base.

Not sure if it was the CIA, MI6 or mums net which got him.

pblakeney

Ballysmate wrote:

Manc not visited today, has he been picked up by the spooks?

Has he been heard from since Friday night?

Manc33

Being chased on foot by a guy with a gun is a matter of life or death.

I said being chased on foot, not "being chased on foot involving firearms".

I said that because the original point was about about criminals not taking up athletics because cops become athletes.

You're just bringing guns into it.

In the above case the criminal had to be shot, because it was known he was armed. As they say in the US "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

The most stupid one was the guy in Wal-Mart that picked a toy gun off a shelf... cops shot him dead right there in the store.

Our cops could be armed and none of this stuff would happen. It would be an outrage if it did whereas in the US it happens every day.

Cops should be armed I reckon but gradually and so criminals cannot know if the cop is armed or not. Thats essentially why no one messes with anyone else in the US (unless they are totally stupid). No one knows who might pull a gun out.

pblakeney

Manc33 wrote:

Thats essentially why no one messes with anyone else in the US (unless they are totally stupid). No one knows who might pull a gun out.

You are just being silly now.
I have seen as many fights in North America as I have here.
And no one pulled a gun.

slowmart

PBlakeney wrote:

Manc33 wrote:

Thats essentially why no one messes with anyone else in the US (unless they are totally stupid). No one knows who might pull a gun out.

.
And no one pulled a gun.

I remember an American psychiatrist succinctly stating 'a gun is a permanent solution to a temporary problem"