How hard is the hour record?

AdamJ

There's an industrial park near my place which is great for chain gang and TT type stuff, so being in need of training and having just a couple of hours I thought I would give the hour attempt a go. I managed 19.08 miles or 30.7km - which was great for me considering I was on a cyclocross bike with 25mm tyres and standard everything else including mudguards and a bottle - no aero bars either. Considering the record Jens set at 51km on a ride specific bike in a velodrome without the blustery winds I had, surely there are mere mortals who wouldn't find this all too difficult? Or does it get to a point at like 45km which seems difficult to surpass?

ugo.santalucia

Hutchinson did try to beat Boardman's British hour Record but he was well off pace when he abandoned mid way... in the GB time trial scene Hutchinson is a name that needs no introduction... he's a sub 18 minutes man in your club's 10 TT.

simon_masterson

This is a little bit like comparing your club run to a grand tour stage.

But as above, even Hutch didn't manage it.

marcusjb

It's really quite hard indeed.

Try riding your bike at 51kph and see how long you can hold that pace for (I would guess that most of us will measure that in seconds rather than minutes and doing it for an hour is something that clearly only a very, very small number of individuals will be able to do).

cougie

AdamJ wrote:

There's an industrial park near my place which is great for chain gang and TT type stuff, so being in need of training and having just a couple of hours I thought I would give the hour attempt a go. I managed 19.08 miles or 30.7km - which was great for me considering I was on a cyclocross bike with 25mm tyres and standard everything else including mudguards and a bottle - no aero bars either. Considering the record Jens set at 51km on a ride specific bike in a velodrome without the blustery winds I had, surely there are mere mortals who wouldn't find this all too difficult? Or does it get to a point at like 45km which seems difficult to surpass?

19 mph is good going there. Its light years away from the Hour Record. Only people who think they have a very good chance even attempt it.

It'd be like me doing 75mph down the M6 and asking is it hard to be Lewis Hamilton winning an F1 race ?

whoof

The drag of the air and the power needed to overcome it do not change linearly.
Riding at 50 kph produces 4 times the drag of riding at 25 kph and you need to produce 8 times as much power to overcome it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)
This is why almost anyone can ride at 10 mph, you need to be relatively fit to ride at 20 mph for any distance, a pretty good racer to do 30 mph, a top pro to ride at 40 mph anything other than downhill and no one can ride at 50 mph other than behind a truck.

ai_1

I regularly average 30km/h+ for extended periods on a cycloscross bike with 25mm tyres and no aero bars. How much harder can it be to go 70% faster and hold it for an hour? Perhaps I should give the hour record a go too!!!
Oh wait. I find it hard enough getting to much over 50km/h in a sprint without a gradient or wind assistance. Perhaps not...

What is it about your ability to do 30.7km in an hour that makes 51km seem less impressive?
It's a bizzare piece of "reasoning".
I presume you realise you were only going 60% of the required speed? That does NOT mean you were producing 60% of the required power by the way.

phreak

Climbing Alps d'Huez in under an hour would put you in the top 5% of riders on Strava, so you'd be in decent company, but you're a million miles away from doing it in 37 minutes ala Pantani.

imposter2.0

phreak wrote:

Climbing Alps d'Huez in under an hour would put you in the top 5% of riders on Strava, so you'd be in decent company, but you're a million miles away from doing it in 37 minutes ala Pantani.

He's talking about the hour record - not climbing Alpe d'Huez...although that would be equally absurd...

JackPozzi

Have seen plenty of decent riders do a single flying lap of the velodrome at a slower speed than would be needed to be sustained for an hour to get the record. That really brought home to me just how tough it is...

phreak

Imposter wrote:

phreak wrote:

Climbing Alps d'Huez in under an hour would put you in the top 5% of riders on Strava, so you'd be in decent company, but you're a million miles away from doing it in 37 minutes ala Pantani.

He's talking about the hour record - not climbing Alpe d'Huez...although that would be equally absurd...

It was a comparison, as I'd imagine many more amateur cyclists have ridden the Alpe than have attempted an hour record.

iron-clover

How hard is it?
I would take a stab at somewhere around the hardest thing you can do on a bike.

I think it would be nice to see the hour record with the standard "Merckx" track bike rather than all the latest wind cheating kit, but then I guess hardly anyone would try as it would be ridiculously hard to beat the old guys, plus the ambiguous rules about what stuff can and can't be used.

Even so, it goes without saying that the modern attempts require ludicrous effort to make a new record- as everyone is using very similar kit in these recent attempts so.

bompington

Just go out and try holding 51kmh for as long as you can. If that turns out to be over an hour, well, you've won, but actually if it's over a minute you're not doing too badly...

MountainMonster

I wonder how many times he told his legs to shut up in that hour, it must have been agony!

Daz555

AdamJ wrote:

There's an industrial park near my place which is great for chain gang and TT type stuff, so being in need of training and having just a couple of hours I thought I would give the hour attempt a go. I managed 19.08 miles or 30.7km - which was great for me considering I was on a cyclocross bike with 25mm tyres and standard everything else including mudguards and a bottle - no aero bars either. Considering the record Jens set at 51km on a ride specific bike in a velodrome without the blustery winds I had, surely there are mere mortals who wouldn't find this all too difficult? Or does it get to a point at like 45km which seems difficult to surpass?

30km/h is a good pace.

How long can you hold 50km/h for though? My guess would be a minute tops! There is no shortage of riders who can't even sprint at 50km/h, never mind stay at that pace for an hour.

Same goes for many sports - look at 10k running. Mo Farah looks like he's jogging on TV - then you see the pace he's actually going trackside and realise that the vast vast majority of us would fail to stay with him for much more than 200m.

As for Wiggo - he's going to be up over 54km would be my guess. I'd wager the mark he sets will only be realistically challenged my Martin - if he decides to have a go at it. It could be years before we see another TT rider with the ability to hit 54 or 55km. These 2 guys are a class apart from their cycling peers, never mind the rest of the population.

AdamJ

whoof wrote:

The drag of the air and the power needed to overcome it do not change linearly.
Riding at 50 kph produces 4 times the drag of riding at 25 kph and you need to produce 8 times as much power to overcome it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)
This is why almost anyone can ride at 10 mph, you need to be relatively fit to ride at 20 mph for any distance, a pretty good racer to do 30 mph, a top pro to ride at 40 mph anything other than downhill and no one can ride at 50 mph other than behind a truck.

I knew there was something I was missing!

ravey1981

phreak wrote:

Climbing Alps d'Huez in under an hour would put you in the top 5% of riders on Strava, so you'd be in decent company, but you're a million miles away from doing it in 37 minutes ala Pantani.

I believe Pantani had a little "help" with that.....

devhads

At a recent track session at Lea Valley velodrome I did a flying lap at 18.09 seconds, and I was all out, and I mean all out. The fastest guy in our group who is an experienced tester did it in 17 something. Jens did 205 laps at that pace. Even though it's indoors at that speed you are creating a fair amount of your own wind resistance.

LegendLust

AdamJ wrote:

There's an industrial park near my place which is great for chain gang and TT type stuff, so being in need of training and having just a couple of hours I thought I would give the hour attempt a go. I managed 19.08 miles or 30.7km - which was great for me considering I was on a cyclocross bike with 25mm tyres and standard everything else including mudguards and a bottle - no aero bars either. Considering the record Jens set at 51km on a ride specific bike in a velodrome without the blustery winds I had, surely there are mere mortals who wouldn't find this all too difficult? Or does it get to a point at like 45km which seems difficult to surpass?

Try doing a 25m TT in less than an hour. See what your opinion is after that

okgo

A lot to be said for being on a track on a time trial bike to be fair. I would imagine a lot of decent testers in the amateur UK scene with practice at riding the track and at temperature etc would not be far from 50km.

Clearly though the difference between a decent tester and your average cyclist in a club is quite large usually. And not
Just fitness, but being able to ride in an aerodynamic position. I would think if Hutch had a go now with the regs Jens had he would have gone further than Jens did.

The difference between Wiggins and Martin as said above is VAST. The gap from Wiggins to Jens on a time trial bike is probably bigger than many amateurs gap to Jens for example. If any of you have a power meter then you can find out how hard it is to ride at Brads 1 hour pace. I could manage it for about 8 minutes on a very good day.

chippyk

RE: Sticking with Mo Farah's 10k pace for 200m?

World marathon record is about 20.5kph, that's about 77 secs for a 400m lap, Mo's 10,000m pb pace is about 67secs/lap. It's quick.

It might be 'easy' to get 40k in an hour, but I suspect each k/hr closer to the record would get increasingly hard and you need to be pretty special to do it. Froome is a pretty good TT rider, nobody on this forum could get close to him in all probability, he's a good distance off Wiggins and Martin. Cav would probably claim to be a crap TT rider but I suspect most amateurs would be a long way behind him

term1te

I've been invited to watch Rohan Dennis attempt the hour in a few weeks time in Grenchen, same velodrome as Jens used. I'm quite tempted to go.

To put it into context, Henri Desgrange (he of TdF fame) held the first hour record in 1893 at 35.325km. My Moser celebrates Franceso's 51.151km in the early 80s. I'm more of an Henri than a Francesco.

bernithebiker

devhads wrote:

Even though it's indoors at that speed you are creating a fair amount of your own wind resistance.

Can you expand / explain that?

I would have thought that if anything you would pick up a tiny benefit, as you are creating your own slipstream that will tend to circulate the air in your direction. (Think stirring a cup of tea...)

okgo

Its not a vacuum is it...

imposter2.0

bernithebiker wrote:

devhads wrote:

Even though it's indoors at that speed you are creating a fair amount of your own wind resistance.

Can you expand / explain that?

I would have thought that if anything you would pick up a tiny benefit, as you are creating your own slipstream that will tend to circulate the air in your direction. (Think stirring a cup of tea...)

Love the idea that riding around a velodrome would create a wind vortex...

bernithebiker

okgo wrote:

Its not a vacuum is it...

Precisely

Bar Shaker

Alex Dowsett is in serious training for The Hour, this year. I'm pretty sure he is doing it at the Stratford Velodrome.

I wouldn't bet against him.

mallorcajeff

Id day its hard for an hour for sure

markhewitt1978

bernithebiker wrote:

devhads wrote:

Even though it's indoors at that speed you are creating a fair amount of your own wind resistance.

Can you expand / explain that?

I would have thought that if anything you would pick up a tiny benefit, as you are creating your own slipstream that will tend to circulate the air in your direction. (Think stirring a cup of tea...)

Not really. It's far to much distance around the track for your previous slip stream to have any effect when you circle back around.

The biggest difference the track is going to make is just the surface being totally smooth is a massive difference compared to most road surfaces.

bernithebiker

Imposter wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

devhads wrote:

Even though it's indoors at that speed you are creating a fair amount of your own wind resistance.

Can you expand / explain that?

I would have thought that if anything you would pick up a tiny benefit, as you are creating your own slipstream that will tend to circulate the air in your direction. (Think stirring a cup of tea...)

Love the idea that riding around a velodrome would create a wind vortex...

My point was to clarify what 'creating your own wind resistance' meant.

I can only assume that in some way he meant you're creating your own headwind.

Not saying it's going to do anything for your average speed, but I would imagine you could measure air movement within the stadium, created by bike and rider.

imposter2.0

bernithebiker wrote:

My point was to clarify what 'creating your own wind resistance' meant.

I can only assume that in some way he meant you're creating your own headwind.

Not saying it's going to do anything for your average speed, but I would imagine you could measure air movement within the stadium, created by bike and rider.

Unless you ride in a vacuum (as okgo pointed out), there will be air resistance, obviously - but there are lots of equations for this already. Air will obviously move as you ride through it, but you will not create some kind of whirlwind effect by riding around a 250m track at 50kph. That would be bizarre.