Half an hour on the turbo

Tom Dean

+1 presumably they had to standardise as many variables as possible during the study. The training protocol that came from the study just says max effort. I work on the assumption that it's best to do it at a normal cadence and use the gears to achieve that.

diy

I don't think we are disagreeing - I think we are all saying High intensity intervals are the way to go if you are working to a short time. Though personally I would steer away from a workout with a recovery section of more than 1-2 mins. in a 30-45 minute workout.

markhewitt1978

I have to confess at this point; it's not a turbo I'm doing a workout on, it's a <gasp> excercise bike (I know, shock, horror, die etc, the reality is it that my wife wanted it and that being the case we can have it in the dining room so all good)

Anyway, there's programs on it which will automatically vary the resistance levels, there's different programs that do it in different ways but there's always at least one bit where it's on max resistance (of your choice) for about 10-20 seconds, so I've been going flat out during the max resistance parts, then easing off during the rest, roll around and repeat.

This is my heart rate trace from the last one I did

imposter2.0

HR trace won't mean much realistically, as it will lag way behind what you are actually doing. I suppose it doesn't really matter what kind of bike you are on, as long as you are able to replicate the same pedalling forces as on the road...

diy

Well there are exercise bikes and exercise bikes, but as imposter says as long as it can vaguely replicate a bike its fine.

JayKosta

Doing short duration / max intensity intervals is great for building sprint power and speed, but there might also be a need to develop long term endurance. With extreme high-intensity-interval-training (HIIT) you can quickly get to point where your leg muscles are cooked, but you haven't stressed your long term endurance cardio functions.

Consider doing the HIIT 1 or 2 times per week, and include some longer duration sessions at a intensity that is high but manageable for the time you have available.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

imposter2.0

JayKosta wrote:

Doing short duration / max intensity intervals is great for building sprint power and speed, but there might also be a need to develop long term endurance. With extreme high-intensity-interval-training (HIIT) you can quickly get to point where your leg muscles are cooked, but you haven't stressed your long term endurance cardio functions.

Consider doing the HIIT 1 or 2 times per week, and include some longer duration sessions at a intensity that is high but manageable for the time you have available.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

Jay (Endwell, NY, USA) - you have read the thread, yes?

birdy247

The key is finding a warm-up routine that lets you get into your workout as quickly as possible.

Aside from the HIT advice already given, an option to help develop more sustainable power maybe something like:

5 min warmup (3 mins progressively increase things, then a couple of 10-15 second efforts to help move things on a bit quicker - not ideal, but could help).
5 min progressing to a tempo/sweetspot pace. 5/6 effort level
10 min at a threshold pace. 6/7 effort level
5 min above threshold. 7/8 effort level
5 min cool down.

JayKosta

Imposter wrote:

...
Jay (Endwell, NY, USA) - you have read the thread, yes?

======================
Yes, I know the OP question was about a 30 minute turbo time period, but I thought it might be beneficial to mention that doing high intensity short interval training does have its limitations - as well as its benefits. Attempting to do too much high intensity training without adequate rest & recovery can quickly result in excessive fatigue and possible injury. Doing a thoughtful mix of training methods that includes high intensity, endurance, and rest can give good results.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

markhewitt1978

I know what you mean. I effectively did four sessions in a row with some high intensity stuff thrown in and I ended up quite tired. This morning just did half an hour of moderate effort instead.

I'm now thinking I'll limit the high intensity stuff to a couple of times a week with a steady effort on the other mornings.

Tom Dean

Half an hour moderate as a fifth consecutive day's training? Ask yourself what you expect to achieve from this session.

markhewitt1978

Tom Dean wrote:

Half an hour moderate as a fifth consecutive day's training? Ask yourself what you expect to achieve from this session.

Can you expand on that then?

Tom Dean

Fatigue ought to be a cue to rest and recover, not to jump on the bike for a junk session.

When you only have time for short sessions the temptation is to do as many days as possible to up the load, but intensity is key to short sessions and you need to be fresh to make the most of them. 4 hours a week training needs more days off than 12 IMO.

markhewitt1978

Tom Dean wrote:

Fatigue ought to be a cue to rest and recover, not to jump on the bike for a junk session.

I did take Thursday off as it goes.

diy

Tom Dean wrote:

4 hours a week training needs more days off than 12 IMO.

Interesting.. that might be a nugget of wisdom there Currently I am nursing a trapezoid injury following a program of 5-6 days a week of training 2-4 hours per day. Its caused me to lose a whole week.

jgsi

Everybody has a differing opinion.
A 30 minute workout maintenance regime 3 -5 times perweek coupled with racing once or twice a week , is perfectly feasible , but I also think that this pre supposes that you have already taken traditional time to create your fitness in the first place... there really are NO short cuts in life.
Even though I race at vet level, I just know how hard some of my racing comrades are training... a damn sight more than 4 hours per week.. none of them report injuries either... which takes me back to the "get your fitness sorted the old fashioned way in the first place".

markhewitt1978

Well I'm not racing and I have no intention of doing so - except when it comes to keeping up with my mates on the local climb .

Up until now my cycling, especially at this time of year, is largely restricted to a Sunday morning, I have a free pass for Sundays, so to speak . But that often means no cycling for a week inbetween - I've tried cycling in the dark in the winter, nothing wrong with it except I don't like it!

Doing 30 minutes most mornings is just a little add on, to keep me ticking over so to speak.

I also usually walk 3-4 miles per day if that makes any difference

jgsi

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Well I'm not racing and I have no intention of doing so - except when it comes to keeping up with my mates on the local climb .

Up until now my cycling, especially at this time of year, is largely restricted to a Sunday morning, I have a free pass for Sundays, so to speak . But that often means no cycling for a week inbetween - I've tried cycling in the dark in the winter, nothing wrong with it except I don't like it!

Doing 30 minutes most mornings is just a little add on, to keep me ticking over so to speak.

I also usually walk 3-4 miles per day if that makes any difference

It wasnt a prompt to get you into racing.. just an opinion that people can cope with more than 4 hours per week training time... but on the basis that their fitness is at a level already to combat the stress of exertion.
Do this abbreviated form of training if that fits in and keep your expectation level to that of 'ticking over' and it will be a successful way of keeping your interest in the bike up.

markhewitt1978

JGSI wrote:

It wasnt a prompt to get you into racing.. just an opinion that people can cope with more than 4 hours per week training time... but on the basis that their fitness is at a level already to combat the stress of exertion.
Do this abbreviated form of training if that fits in and keep your expectation level to that of 'ticking over' and it will be a successful way of keeping your interest in the bike up.

Cheers. I know from experience that my enjoyment on rides is much increased if I have the fitness to manage it and coming back after the winter break is never much fun, so the more I can do to help with that the better.

JayKosta

A huge bug-a-boo with determining a training program is finding the appropriate levels of: intensity, duration, and rest/recovery that fit into your daily life and physical condition.

I find the info in this book very informative and helpful. It is primarily intended for people doing serious 'weight training', but I think the basic ideas about intensity, duration, and rest can be integrated into cycling training.
http://www.richard-pye.talktalk.net/pra ... amming.pdf

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

bobmcstuff

Hi, don't mean to hijack but some useful stuff in here and would appreciate some advice. I was chatting to my boss (who I cycle with quite frequently) about training and more specifically short workouts to do during the week, so this thread came to mind. He has a turbo and access to a HR monitor, but doesn't like the turbo much, plus has 2 young kids and a reasonably demanding job so not much time in the week. Lives in the sticks outside Aberdeen so has effectively been frozen in for after work cycling for a few weeks (untreated back roads).

The half hour workout I suggested is below, it's obviously based on a shortened Time Crunched Cyclist workout because that's where I've been getting some of my turbo sessions from (did suggest Sufferfest - not for him).

5 min warm up
8min hard (90%+ MHR)
4mins recovery
8min hard
5 min cool down

Would appreciate opinions on whether this is suitable to help someone keep up fitness if they did it a couple of times during the week, coupled with getting outside at the weekends. He'll be riding some sportives come the spring (including the 3 Pistes at the end of May). Potentially I'd suggest a few of the other ones from this thread as well so he's not doing the same thing all the time.

Thanks

diy

I would personally mix the Hard and Reco together.
e.g. 2 mins hard 1 min reco. x 4

particularly if you are aiming for 90%+ MHR.

any reco over 2 mins on a short session is wasted time IMO. you recover well over 50% in the first minute and probably over 70% by the second minute.

You could also build some slogging in the cool down (first 2-3 mins) to get the after burn affect and of course a nice 2-3 minute stretch after.

Also if he finds the turbo too dull for every day then he can do some body weight training at home to mix it up. Search Youtube for Insanity workout or Grit workout for ideas.

overlord2

If all I had most days was 30 minutes i'd be out running. Cycling just is not a sport for those short on time. Just the way it is. And you'll get more out of a 30 minute run than a 30 minute cycle.

diy

What do you mean by more? More calories burned, better CV improvements, fitter and stronger? Taken to its logical conclusion there are vastly more effective exercise routines than running for a 30 minute session if your goal is calories burned, an overall body workout or to improve the CV system.

I don't think 30 minutes on a turbo is a waste of time, personally. Though generally I try to go 45 minutes or more.

DeVlaeminck

Agree with that - by the time you are changed, on the tubo and warmed up may as well do 45 mins to an hour if possible. Even for very high intensity stuff I would still advise that as the higher the intensity the longer the warm up needed.

As for running - great for runners or general fitness if you don't have access to a gym - not much use for cycling.

overlord2

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Agree with that - by the time you are changed, on the tubo and warmed up may as well do 45 mins to an hour if possible. Even for very high intensity stuff I would still advise that as the higher the intensity the longer the warm up needed.

As for running - great for runners or general fitness if you don't have access to a gym - not much use for cycling.

He want to do 30 minutes not 1 hour. I know Dutch time is different but...

markhewitt1978

Like I have said many times I as well as the fellow above have half an hour, not an hour, an hour is double that

The choices are half an hour, or, nothing.

bobmcstuff

DeVlaeminck wrote:

As for running - great for runners or general fitness if you don't have access to a gym - not much use for cycling.

I don't entirely agree with this, given that general fitness is pretty useful for cycling. Particularly for most recreational or sportive riders etc.. Even the pros I follow on strava go for runs apparently by the looks of things (not very often, granted).

I do agree that if you want to get good at cycling then doing more cycling is probably the best way to go about it though

DeVlaeminck

Overlord2 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Agree with that - by the time you are changed, on the tubo and warmed up may as well do 45 mins to an hour if possible. Even for very high intensity stuff I would still advise that as the higher the intensity the longer the warm up needed.

As for running - great for runners or general fitness if you don't have access to a gym - not much use for cycling.

He want to do 30 minutes not 1 hour. I know Dutch time is different but...

He also wants to do something on a bike not running

If half an hour is absolutely all the OP has then fair enough - but my point is this - for half an hours training you maybe spend 40 minutes minimum if you include getting your kit on etc - of that by the time you have warmed up properly you maybe get 20 minutes training time and that's with no cool down. If you could just extend the session by 10 minutes you'd get 50% more training time - ok you might say the warm up has some fitness benefit but you take the point.

daniel_b

To the OP:

Do you have any opportunity to work from home at all?

I have a young daughter, but imo am getting more quality training in than I ever did.

I am fortunate living 5 minutes from work, and manage to get 4 or sometimes more sessions in each week.

Monday night after I have put my little girl to bed, I get on the Turbo for 90 - 100 minutes - my gf goes out to band rehearsal so no time together 'lost'
Tuesday after work, I manage to get around a 50-55 minute session in before my gf gets home from work with my daughter. (At the weekend I cook the meal we are going to eat on Tuesday so nice and easy)
Thursday is my work from home day, and I have negotiated with my boss to take a longer lunchtime, and then work it up at the end of the day - this means I can get a decent 80 minute session in during my work day as it were, and then finish a bit later, but being totally done for the day.
Saturday or Sunday I tend to get up at around 6am, out on the bike by 7, and back at around 9-9.30.
As the weather improves am considering getting up at something like 4.30am, and being out on the bike by 5.30, so I can get a 50 in and be home before 9.

Do you cycle to work - if so might be worth seeing if you can extend your lunch hour and go for some rides during that time.

I am finding as a new father that life does not need to stop, or completely change, there are ways and means to keep ones interests up, AND keep fit and healthy at the same time.