Fred Whitton advise

ilovegrace

Compliments of the Season to you all.
I am contemplating entering the Fred Whitton and need a little help!
I have been cycling for a couple of years now 30 miles (round trip) 4 times a week. hilly commute and 50 plus miles over the north yorks moors on a Sunday.
This and a little more has helped me ride several half decent sportives based in the North Yorks Moors area the longest been 90 miles
I am 53 and in decent nick , I have option to put more training in but not a great deal more.
I know from my fell running training that i respond better to hilly miles rather than intervals.
Any help on
1 How much more training would I need to do.
2 Should I bother .
look forward to hearing from you
regards
ILG

nammynake

It really depends on your goals. If it's simply to get round before the sun sets then your current fitness level will probably be OK as long as you keep it topped up over the next 4-5 months...but it will be a long and hard day, possibly including walking up Hardknott and Wrynose. If you want to get round in a reasonable time (8-9 hours) then you'll probably need to up your mileage during the first few months of 2015. Any faster (sub 8 hours is deemed 'decent') then even more training will be needed.

Make sure you have low enough gears for Honister, Hardknott and Wrynose. The majority of people end up walking Hardknott....which isn't the easiest tasks in cleats.

Good luck !

ilovegrace

nammynake wrote:

It really depends on your goals. If it's simply to get round before the sun sets then your current fitness level will probably be OK as long as you keep it topped up over the next 4-5 months...but it will be a long and hard day, possibly including walking up Hardknott and Wrynose. If you want to get round in a reasonable time (8-9 hours) then you'll probably need to up your mileage during the first few months of 2015. Any faster (sub 8 hours is deemed 'decent') then even more training will be needed.

Make sure you have low enough gears for Honister, Hardknott and Wrynose. The majority of people end up walking Hardknott....which isn't the easiest tasks in cleats.

Good luck !

Many thanks for the reply.
I would have replied earlier but woke up with "man flu" the other day so have been more or less bed bound.
After reading you reply I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the mileage youi think is required to go sub 8 hours and where you might add this into my weekly routine ?
thanks again
regards
ILG

DeVlaeminck

Your mileage isn't bad to be honest - I'd be looking more at intensity - one or maybe two hard evening sessions whether they be a chaingang, long intervals done on road or turbo or just sorting out a loop on your commute home and hammering it as hard as possible once a week. I don't know what your group riding skills are like but if you are good at hanging in a small fast moving group that will help - the terrain on parts of the Fred is quite technical and if you can stick in a group that could pay dividends - for that reason I'd favour doing a local chaingang once a week.

Weight is also a biggy for the Fred, it's a climbers course and I know some strong but heavy riders who have suffered on it. The other thing is on the steep ones - Honister, Wrynose but particularly Hardknott just go at them slowly - you can get up but if you attack them you've no chance and once you start walking you lose a lot of time even compared to the slowest riders.

ugo.santalucia

As above... it's a big beast and you need to trim yourself down as much as possible. How much you weigh now and how much is realistic to lose between now and May?
Then you need to work on your bike handling and descending technique... maybe a bit of off road can help with that.

Then of course you need to train, but that's the easy part

t4tomo

Go and have a crack at Rosedale chimney if you are in N yorks, you might have already on one of your sportives. Individually the climbs on the FW are more or less on a par with that, it's just the cumulative effect. All in all training around the NYM will have you better prepared than most.

ilovegrace

t4tomo wrote:

Go and have a crack at Rosedale chimney if you are in N yorks, you might have already on one of your sportives. Individually the climbs on the FW are more or less on a par with that, it's just the cumulative effect. All in all training around the NYM will have you better prepared than most.

Many thanks for the replies,
The chimney is one of my climbs , maybe once a month or so in better weather it forms part of a 60 mile loop including egton bank , rosedale and farndale to blakey pub .
I am not to bad weight wise 11st 10-12 @ ft 10 1/2. I could drop a few pounds and this is an area that could well be looked at.
I think the suggestion of group riding would pay dividends as I have never ridden in a group apart from the three Sportives I have done.
I think the main thing I need from a naive point of view is the confidence that I could do it and hopefully at a reasonable
level
From the replies I think it is worth shot .
Thanks a lot , "its good to talk".
regards
ILG

hugo15

I haven't done the FW Sportive but I have ridden the route. I did this on the back of ridding around the NY Moors. If you are used to riding Chimney Bank and Blakey Bank then you will be fine with Honister, Newlands and Wrynose. Hardknott really is something else....... but if you take it slow enough then you should be OK. My guess is that you will get round fine, the big question is how fast you want to go and how much you want to suffer for a good time vs. taking it a bit easier, enjoying the views and maybe enjoying it a bit more?

nammynake

If you're regularly doing 60 mile hilly routes with Rosedale Chimney then you'll manage the Fred Whitton. Try to get a few longer rides up to 80 miles in March/April and you'll be fine.

Hardknott IS bloody tough but it's comparable to Rosedale Chimney in my opinion.

Since it's your first time round I wouldn't stress out with trying to attain a certain time. Just enjoy the fabulous scenery and the atmosphere. If you get round in a decent time then it's a bonus and a target to beat next year ;-)

My training last year wasn't too structured - basically a long hill weekend riding (building from 60 miles in Winter up to 80 miles in April) together with 2 or 3 turbo sessions per week (2x20 min threshold / sweet spot). I'm looking to really step up my training this year (for some other events) and if I get a place I'm aiming for sub-7 hours. I did 7:40 last year with plenty left in the tank having ridden round with my pal and waited at the top of most climbs.

tubaonwheels

I'm also planning on trying to get into the FW.
My training plan will be to build up the long hilly rides as much as poss and hope I gain the fitness to get quite a way round the course before it becomes a 'survival' job.
I've done Hardknot and Wrynose (and the chimney) but only on mtb.
Got a Trek Domane 4.5 on order for new year and hope I manage the climbs as well on that.

Already entered the Evans ride it sportive from Harewood in March to try and get myself motivated to train!

nammynake

^^^ I see you're in Leeds. If you're not already riding with a club then I can recommend AlbaRosa - their rides start from Lawnswood and plenty of options for beginners right through to racers.

pollys_bott

ilovegrace wrote:

The chimney is one of my climbs , maybe once a month or so in better weather it forms part of a 60 mile loop including egton bank , rosedale and farndale to blakey pub .
I am not to bad weight wise 11st 10-12 @ ft 10 1/2. I could drop a few pounds and this is an area that could well be looked at.
I think the suggestion of group riding would pay dividends as I have never ridden in a group apart from the three Sportives I have done.
I think the main thing I need from a naive point of view is the confidence that I could do it and hopefully at a reasonable
level
From the replies I think it is worth shot .
Thanks a lot , "its good to talk".
regards
ILG

You will be fine - I did it this year for the first time after a winter / spring of averaging 80 miles a week mostly commuting and with a 65 - 70 mile ride every three weeks or so, and got round in eight hours. There aren't many mountains down here but Rutland has some short sharp climbs of 15-17% and west of Loughborough is lumpy enough to get 3500ft of climbing in a 40 mile ride so I hit those areas for lots of intervals. I did the Ryedale Rumble in 2010 & 2011: first time it had me for breakfast, second time I did much more training on my local little lumps and added some intervals into my commutes and I got round well. As De Vlaeminck says your mileage is fine, work on intensity: like the Rumble did, the Fred tests your ability to recover after going into the red so if you're used to doing Rosedale & Blakey Banks and more in a ride then you'll be better prepared than most.

If you're carrying a bit of waist insulation then yes, getting rid of it will help: the less dead weight you have to drag up those climbs the better. I guess there's no need to ask about gearing if you're getting up Rosedale...

ilovegrace

Feel a lot better in my mind now !
Appreciate everyone taking their time to offer up advise .
Lets get the entry in and see if I am successful.
regards
ILG

tubaonwheels

nammynake ---- I'm a newish member of Garforth velo. Looking forward to loads of club rides with them to help get me fit.

ilovegrace

---

hear hear, let's get on with it, good luck with entry. Maybe in a month or 2 if weather ok I'll come over your way for a good hilly ride!

styxd

I think you'll be ok, if you're riding your bike a reasonable amount then you should be able to make it round without a problem.

THe first time I did it was quite a few years ago now. I didn't do alot of road cycling at the time, the furthest I had ridden before hand was 45miles. My bike was too small for me, it had a low gear of 39/25, I had flat pedals, and on the day I had a dreadful cold. I still made it round though (granted, it took nearly nine hours and I walked alot of the steep hills). So I think you'll be ok!

No extra training is required I dont think, the best tip i'll give you is don't kill yourself on the flats inbetween the hills. And lose a stone, that'll make things easier.

ilovegrace

Thanks again for the replies .
My entry is going in !
regards
ILG

tubaonwheels

Entry accepted, let the training begin!

ilovegrace

tubaonwheels wrote:

Entry accepted, let the training begin!

Better luck than me !!
No entry , mind you never got a e mail to let me know , had to check the rider listings.
So my first time effort to enter the FW has not been a good one.
Will now aim for the Velo 29 http://velo29events.com/sportives/buttertubs-sportive/ long route.
Hope you have a good one "tubonwheels" keep us posted on your training and ride.
regards
ILG traing

ilovegrace

tubaonwheels wrote:

nammynake ---- I'm a newish member of Garforth velo. Looking forward to loads of club rides with them to help get me fit.

ilovegrace

---

hear hear, let's get on with it, good luck with entry. Maybe in a month or 2 if weather ok I'll come over your way for a good hilly ride!

No problem , I am based a few miles from Whitby so access to some great routes around the North Yorks moors , bring your climbing legs and a min 28 / 30 cassette !!
regards
ILG

tubaonwheels

My new bike has a 11-32 cassette so hopefully will be ok. Although did a steepish hill towards end of my 2nd ride on it and it felt a struggle - I was knackered mind. I intend coming over to attempt the chimney on it as soon as the weather improves a bit (lot) to make sure I'll be ok on hardknot and the like.
I love the Whitby area, we have a motorhome and we often stop at the campsite by the golf course on road to Sandsend. Nice riding around that way.

Steve.

ilovegrace

tubaonwheels wrote:

My new bike has a 11-32 cassette so hopefully will be ok. Although did a steepish hill towards end of my 2nd ride on it and it felt a struggle - I was knackered mind. I intend coming over to attempt the chimney on it as soon as the weather improves a bit (lot) to make sure I'll be ok on hardknot and the like.
I love the Whitby area, we have a motorhome and we often stop at the campsite by the golf course on road to Sandsend. Nice riding around that way.

Steve.

was heading Sandsend/whitby this morning but back has flared up again so had to turn round and come home.
Give me a shout when you are ready to tackle the chimney and I will ride over with you.
Coffee stop at Hutton le hole and Blakey bank from Farndale side should set you up for the FW .
regards
ILG

tubaonwheels

Will do. Got turbo arriving tomorrow so can at least start building fitness whilst this cold snap lasts, may be several weeks before up for a chimney ride

Fatamorgana

There are four cracking steep descents and ascents on the way to Chimney.

Due West of RHoods Bay, at Little Beck (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.43579 ... ,15z?hl=en) one comes out onto Blue Bank, turn L, then you can route around the northern fringes on the NYMs via Goathland, Beck Hole and others making for The Chimney, and possibly Blakey Ridge (?).

That'll put hairs on yer chest.

I rode the FW route 3x in 2014, just be aware of the descents off Honister in particular, but also HardKnott and Wyrenose. Hoisnter in the wet - awful on the initial descent. Look at the map, as on the descent down from having climbed out of Buttermere over Newlands, maybe 3 or 4 miles down towards Braithwaite, the road kinks severely, it's blind and it's steep and off camber.

I rode it on a Dawes touring bike with a 36 rear, making Hardknott manageable, it's Wyrenose that might be your undoing, at 100-sh miles, there's a final-isn 100m, straight up, no shirking, visible for miles away. You can always dismount.

You should be fine.

ilovegrace

here are four cracking steep descents and ascents on the way to Chimney.

Due West of RHoods Bay, at Little Beck (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.43579 ... ,15z?hl=en) one comes out onto Blue Bank, turn L, then you can route around the northern fringes on the NYMs via Goathland, Beck Hole and others making for The Chimney, and possibly Blakey Ridge (?).

That'll put hairs on yer chest.
Don,t I know it , the climb out ofLlittlebeck on to blue bank is , for want of a better term , a hidden gem!
I have lived in these parts for 50 odd years and until last summer never new it existed. .
How come you know the area so well !!
regards
ILG

overlord2

FW isn't that hard its the time you want to do it in that determines how well you will do, like someone else said.

The climbs I find are just the same as in the rest of Yorkshire but just a bit longer. There are some monster hills in the pennines that are equal to the lakes.

I have climbed Hardknott several times and I find it the easiest out of the big climbs. It's insanely steep then it flattens out for a chance for recovery before going insane again. Honister is insane but just as you are about to blow up it stops and levels off. The hardest part of the FW is between Winlatter and Calder Bridge. It is the 'flatter' part of the course but you seem to be constantly fighting up hill and if the weather is bad it really gives you a good kicking like it did in 2013.

tubaonwheels

How's the training going? I've managed some decent hilly rides recently. Today Park rash and Kidstones from Burnsall, sat'day a 76 miler taking in Holme Moss twice and last Wed Fleet moss and Kidstones from Leyburn. Climbing is pretty strong (for me) and building endurance slowly. I'm still dubious about Hardknot and Wrynose as I seem to be on my limit on the steeper sections after running out of gears... still got up mind. May have a look at the Chimney soon to see how I cope with a really steep one.

Got to say I'm loving the training, so it's all worth while.

Steve.

DeVlaeminck

Overlord2 wrote:

I have climbed Hardknott several times and I find it the easiest out of the big climbs. It's insanely steep then it flattens out for a chance for recovery before going insane again. Honister is insane but just as you are about to blow up it stops and levels off. The hardest part of the FW is between Winlatter and Calder Bridge. It is the 'flatter' part of the course but you seem to be constantly fighting up hill and if the weather is bad it really gives you a good kicking like it did in 2013.

The bit between Whinlatter and Calder Bridge was particularly hard in 2013 because of the weather but take that (the weather not that part of the course) out and it's not exceptionally tough. Hardknott is something else and for my money stands out as the toughest part of the ride - the majority are walking up it at some point - I'd say the large majority. It's really the only one that can get someone who is race fit off their bike. Honister is a beast too but the others - Newlands, Wrynose from that side and Kirkstone wouldn't stand out as unusually tough in any of the hilly areas of the UK. Whinlatter is big ring.

homers_double

tubaonwheels wrote:

How's the training going? I've managed some decent hilly rides recently. Today Park rash and Kidstones from Burnsall, sat'day a 76 miler taking in Holme Moss twice and last Wed Fleet moss and Kidstones from Leyburn. Climbing is pretty strong (for me) and building endurance slowly. I'm still dubious about Hardknot and Wrynose as I seem to be on my limit on the steeper sections after running out of gears... still got up mind. May have a look at the Chimney soon to see how I cope with a really steep one.

Got to say I'm loving the training, so it's all worth while.

Steve.

My riding partner is quite nervous about the amount of climbing so we've started doing things like this - https://app.strava.com/activities/254627456 instead of a regular loop on a Saturday morning to get some elevation into our training.

I've not done that much training yet, only managed 350km this year but have had a couple of weeks skiing to work on the legs as well as boot camp training twice a week to lose weight (15st.2 as of todays weigh-in).

As the weather improves I'll be out more though so fingers crossed we can make it round in two pieces.

overlord2

tubaonwheels wrote:

How's the training going? I've managed some decent hilly rides recently. Today Park rash and Kidstones from Burnsall, sat'day a 76 miler taking in Holme Moss twice and last Wed Fleet moss and Kidstones from Leyburn. Climbing is pretty strong (for me) and building endurance slowly. I'm still dubious about Hardknot and Wrynose as I seem to be on my limit on the steeper sections after running out of gears... still got up mind. May have a look at the Chimney soon to see how I cope with a really steep one.

Got to say I'm loving the training, so it's all worth while.

Steve.

Doing a damn site more than me. A nice route is Hawes - buttertubs - Grinton - Leyburn - cloverdale to park rash then fleet moss if you are going back to Hawes. Its what I do 1-2 weeks before the event.

tubaonwheels

^^ Sounds a good route that, must try it some time. I've entered the Great Dun fell sportive the week before FW. Must try and fit a NYM's ride in a few weeks before if I can too.

nammynake

I see you're in Leeds. There are a few steepish climbs, which although not 30% will at least give you a feel for what 30% is like. I can climb these with 34-28 without much trouble, but Honister/Hardknott/Wrynose are another level of difficulty:

- Peat Lane out of Pateley Bridge
http://www.strava.com/segments/2593125

- Storiths lane near Bolton Abbey:
http://www.strava.com/segments/789681

- Langbar near Bolton Abbey
http://www.strava.com/segments/703800