Rapha's Gabba?

gweeds

Weirdly the Pro Team tights fit me better than their normal winter tights, yet I've never found their shorts to fit me that well and much prefer Assos.

I sent the jacket back. I'm fairly quick with most rides at 20-22mph average, but the fit on the arms was just too tight and made any layers underneath just too tight and not quite warm enough for this time of year. That was an XL, same as my Pro Team jackets and the arm fit on those is bang on. Snug, but not too tight.

thegreatdivide

Gweeds wrote:

Weirdly the Pro Team tights fit me better than their normal winter tights, yet I've never found their shorts to fit me that well and much prefer Assos.

I sent the jacket back. I'm fairly quick with most rides at 20-22mph average, but the fit on the arms was just too tight and made any layers underneath just too tight and not quite warm enough for this time of year. That was an XL, same as my Pro Team jackets and the arm fit on those is bang on. Snug, but not too tight.

What does this mean?

bendertherobot

I think that may be part of the problem. The tightness of the entire thing means there's no air being trapped. Once the surface is wet it's drawing out the heat from your body.

In that respect I think the Castelli Alpha Jersey may well work better when wet than this wet weather gear. I may test this tomorrow...

bendertherobot

thegreatdivide wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Weirdly the Pro Team tights fit me better than their normal winter tights, yet I've never found their shorts to fit me that well and much prefer Assos.

I sent the jacket back. I'm fairly quick with most rides at 20-22mph average, but the fit on the arms was just too tight and made any layers underneath just too tight and not quite warm enough for this time of year. That was an XL, same as my Pro Team jackets and the arm fit on those is bang on. Snug, but not too tight.

What does this mean?

Which bit? 22mph being quick (it is isn't it?). Or the tight bit. It IS really tight. So, for example, your best putting your gloves on before the jacket because getting into the arms is a bit wetsuit like.

ddraver

bendertherobot wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I have to say I'm slightly disappointed by my Rapha Pro Team Tights in the cold. it was 2degC-ish on the club run last night (but windy even for NL) and I was comfortable but not warm. When some bloke got a puncture I was very cold with a Rapha merino base layer on and an old Endura Stealth Jacket*

Above 5degC they re great, but they re not for cold days. In contrast, I ve worn = the old Gore Windstopper Tights they replaced for a run in -20 in Siberia and they were fine! Having said that I wasnt that warm up top either so maybe I need to do a bit more experimenting all over...

*Credit to Endura, they did the "waterproof softshell" a long time before the big names - albeit it's a jacket, not a jersey

I wanted to love mine but they were really weird. I've always been XL in Rapha bottoms, and definitely so in the Pro Team. But they were too big for my calves. And my calves are comedy big.

I'm not totally convinced by the Pro Team Soft-shell yet. I don't think it's the cold wet weather jacket that Rapha say. For the real pros perhaps. For the plodders no. IF I could swap it back for a hardshell, out of stock now, I might well do so.

They re too long in the leg for me (as are all tights that i can get into). but I'm starting to think that "cold Weather" for the Pro Team kit means "Majorcan Cold Weather" or at best "Belgian Spring Weather" and that the kit is not designed for proper Northern Europe Winter - That's when you buy their Deep Winter kit.

gweeds

bendertherobot wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Weirdly the Pro Team tights fit me better than their normal winter tights, yet I've never found their shorts to fit me that well and much prefer Assos.

I sent the jacket back. I'm fairly quick with most rides at 20-22mph average, but the fit on the arms was just too tight and made any layers underneath just too tight and not quite warm enough for this time of year. That was an XL, same as my Pro Team jackets and the arm fit on those is bang on. Snug, but not too tight.

What does this mean?

Which bit? 22mph being quick (it is isn't it?). Or the tight bit. It IS really tight. So, for example, your best putting your gloves on before the jacket because getting into the arms is a bit wetsuit like.

The tight bit. Although I don't hang around so might well be the target market as in 'not a plodder' but it's just a bit too tight. That said I'm not built like Froome but how many are?

bendertherobot

Gweeds wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Weirdly the Pro Team tights fit me better than their normal winter tights, yet I've never found their shorts to fit me that well and much prefer Assos.

I sent the jacket back. I'm fairly quick with most rides at 20-22mph average, but the fit on the arms was just too tight and made any layers underneath just too tight and not quite warm enough for this time of year. That was an XL, same as my Pro Team jackets and the arm fit on those is bang on. Snug, but not too tight.

What does this mean?

Which bit? 22mph being quick (it is isn't it?). Or the tight bit. It IS really tight. So, for example, your best putting your gloves on before the jacket because getting into the arms is a bit wetsuit like.

The tight bit. Although I don't hang around so might well be the target market as in 'not a plodder' but it's just a bit too tight. That said I'm not built like Froome but how many are?

My arms are medium. Quite short but deffo not a Froomey. The jacket is comfy if you have medium arms with a base layer. Getting it on is certainly unlike other jackets. Almost wetsuit like because the wrists are very tight indeed! It's not constricting for me, once one, but if you work out or do press ups I can see that it might be quite tight.

I'm still undecided on it. If it had a classics guarantee I may well return it. Not because it's not efficient but because, November to February, it's just not keeping me warm.

gweeds

bendertherobot wrote:

I'm still undecided on it. If it had a classics guarantee I may well return it. Not because it's not efficient but because, November to February, it's just not keeping me warm.

That nails it - and once you're into March could it be too warm and clingy.....

bendertherobot

Gweeds wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

I'm still undecided on it. If it had a classics guarantee I may well return it. Not because it's not efficient but because, November to February, it's just not keeping me warm.

That nails it - and once you're into March could it be too warm and clingy.....

Almost certainly. I dunno, shock, I think I may prefer the Gabba............

paulmon

I have worn mine a few times now and I really like it. I'd echo what has been said about the arms being very tight but this is how it's meant to be. It appears to work like the neoprene winter gloves by keeping the moisture from your body warm but as bender said I'd be worried at cafe stops about getting too cool (something that never happens with my Winter Jersey).

Where does it fit in the wardrobe? I'd say it's something you would wear when you are expecting it to rain or those days when there is a lot of mist. That said i haven't actually worn mine in the rain yet as I have manged to miss it. The one problem I have is with the wipe able panel on the back that is there to stop road grime/water away from the material.

When in the drops I think this panel is sticking out rather than clinging to my back so all the spray goes up my back and onto the inside of the jacket. This might be because I have a short torso and the tail of the jacket is too far down my back. I've spoken to Rapha about this and may ultimatley return the jacket.


Rapha Pro Team Softshell by m00nigan, on Flickr


Rapha Pro Team Softshell by m00nigan, on Flickr

bendertherobot

That's an odd one! Interesting. What did they have to say about it?

paulmon

bendertherobot wrote:

That's an odd one! Interesting. What did they have to say about it?

Still waiting, but I only spoke to them today.

on-yer-bike

That's completely ridiculous. A cr*p funnel not a cr*p protector. Its a stupid idea anyway that panel, a token gesture. What about all the muck that goes above and below onto the shorts? Why dont shorts have shiny panels on the back?

cookeeemonster

on-yer-bike wrote:

That's completely ridiculous. A cr*p funnel not a cr*p protector. Its a stupid idea anyway that panel, a token gesture. What about all the muck that goes above and below onto the shorts? Why dont shorts have shiny panels on the back?

The poster said that he has a short torso so maybe thats it? I'm assuming theres no drawstring so maybe you could put it down as a design error? I tried it on in the rapha shop and it fitted perfect for me tbh, pretty tight fitting but comfortable. I'd get no use from the protector as sane people like myself with mudguards dont need it

cougie

I think the panel is a good idea really - we all know thats where the bulk of the crap goes if you've no guards on. Makes sense to have it like that.

I think the road.cc review of the winter jersey had a photo of it on a rider with it sticking out. On that one the review mentioned that you just needed to adjust the drawstring to remedy this ?

Here we are - second pic down - http://road.cc/content/review/139227-ra ... ent-313553

bendertherobot

Aye. Afraid that this jacket doesn't have a drawstring though.

I'm musing today. I can get a decent return on ebay (be about £30 down, I have an offer already) and might either revert to the Convertible Gabba (good for MTB, CX etc as well) or possibly a Gore Oxygen 2.0

ddraver

The Oxygen is good, but it's a hardshell isnt it?

bendertherobot

Yep. Most of my time is commuting. Fast commuting, but commuting none the less. It may be a better proposition.

I want to love the Rapha but I can't recall being this cold in a Gabba.

ddraver

cos it was summer?!?

:P

I ve got an AlpX in Gore Tex Active which I use on the roadie when it's horrendous out. It's great, but it's still a hardshell....

bendertherobot

ddraver wrote:

cos it was summer?!?

:P

I ve got an AlpX in Gore Tex Active which I use on the roadie when it's horrendous out. It's great, but it's still a hardshell....

We've not had winter yet Seriously though, I used the Gabba until, what, beginning of December in atrocious conditions. It always let go (in terms of letting rain in) but I don't recall being cold. Possibly rose tinted glasses mind.

jordan_217

bendertherobot wrote:

Yep. Most of my time is commuting. Fast commuting, but commuting none the less. It may be a better proposition.

I want to love the Rapha but I can't recall being this cold in a Gabba.

Have you looked at the Castelli Elemento? Stupidly priced at RRP but now 'affordable' in the sales. I got one for Xmas and it's great, extremely breathable when working hard or the temp is ca. 5-8 degrees yet it's warm when the temp gets towards 0.

Rain protection is another matter because of all the stitching (making it breathable), though I haven't worn it in the rain and some reviews I've read say it's not that bad in a downpour.

Edit: I bought a B'Twin soft-shell for £20 last year (heavily discounted), it was mainly for commuting or riding when there was a chance I'd hit ice but TBH, it's performed flawlessly I'm (pleasantly) surprised by how good it is. Water and snow will bead on it until it blows off or I brush it and it's as good as my Mavic soft shells in terms of breathability:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/700-warm-cyc ... 15367.html

Mine is an older colourway in just red/black but it's got some really nice features and I honestly think it's as good as/better than the Mavic soft shells I own which cost me well over £100.

Anyway - my mate has a Gabba and swears the BTwin is made out of the same material. I don't know how true that is but he's pretty positive.

bendertherobot

jordan_217 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Yep. Most of my time is commuting. Fast commuting, but commuting none the less. It may be a better proposition.

I want to love the Rapha but I can't recall being this cold in a Gabba.

Have you looked at the Castelli Elemento? Stupidly priced at RRP but now 'affordable' in the sales. I got one for Xmas and it's great, extremely breathable when working hard or the temp is ca. 5-8 degrees yet it's warm when the temp gets towards 0.

Rain protection is another matter because of all the stitching (making it breathable), though I haven't worn it in the rain and some reviews I've read say it's not that bad in a downpour.

I'm sorted for general warmth. Have both the Castelli Alpha Jersey and Jacket. Both are good in light rain but wanted something for the heavier stuff. Hence the Rapha. It does work, generally. As a rain type jacket it offers good protection and the fit is outstanding.

But in current temps, combined with being wet, it just can't offer any real warmth.

cougie

I got almost hypothermic in a gabba and armwarmers and shorts in a very rainy ride in September.
It wouldnt be my port of call for a winter top.

I did win a DHB Windslam jersey from Wiggle - about £50 full price i think. Its an awesome top. Great visibility. Reflectives. Windproof front - thats what I've been using for the winter that we've had. Well worth a look. It says its a jersey - but it seems more of a jacket to me ?

apreading

Each to their own, there has only been one day this winter too cold for my short sleeve Gabba with Helly Hansen 1/2 zip freeze baselayer (and just once or twice a short sleeve 120gm planet-x base underneath). Plenty of days I am still getting hot wearing this and unzipping... My Mortirolo has yet to be used since jan/feb last year!

src1

Same here, got really cold in a LS Gabba. 2hrs of rain and I was soaked and cold, it's also not very breathable. Hype over function.

The rain on Thursday morning's 20 mile commute in had me wondering about the Rapha Hardshell. Shame I missed the sales...

bendertherobot

Another night. Another test. Tonight, moderate rain, 1 hour, 20 miles. Soaked, absolutely soaked.

I'm going to email them tomorrow to say, well, it just doesn't work. Rain gets in, lots of it and when it does I don't stay warm.

Now, they don't claim waterproof but it SHOULD be better than a Gabba. I don't think it is. I wonder if they'll refund. It's not in the classics section so I am not hopeful.

eddiefiola

cougie wrote:

I got almost hypothermic in a gabba and armwarmers and shorts in a very rainy ride in September.
It wouldnt be my port of call for a winter top.

I did win a DHB Windslam jersey from Wiggle - about £50 full price i think. Its an awesome top. Great visibility. Reflectives. Windproof front - thats what I've been using for the winter that we've had. Well worth a look. It says its a jersey - but it seems more of a jacket to me ?

I've ended up with a few jackets and jerseys, Rapha, Assos etc and out of all of them I rate the DHB Windslam Jersey as my best buy, with a base layer, and a gilet its done me down to low minus temps and its a nice fit.

I had a LS Gabba 1 but sent it back as I didnt like the saggy pockets, i thought it might be the sizing but tried one size smaller and with stuff in the pockets it never felt right. I could never get the layers right either, too cold or too hot, never found the middle ground.

If it's very cold and wet then I have the Assos Stürmprinz EVO, pricy, not totally sure the price is justified. I only need a base layer under it and a jersey (for pockets) and I've been toasty down to -7 or so. Pretty sure i wont be able to use this once it gets above 5-10 deg c as it will just be too warm, i dont care what people say about waterproof material if its really good at keeping water out it wont breath enough in higher temps.

paulmon

bendertherobot wrote:

Another night. Another test. Tonight, moderate rain, 1 hour, 20 miles. Soaked, absolutely soaked.

I'm going to email them tomorrow to say, well, it just doesn't work. Rain gets in, lots of it and when it does I don't stay warm.

Now, they don't claim waterproof but it SHOULD be better than a Gabba. I don't think it is. I wonder if they'll refund. It's not in the classics section so I am not hopeful.

I wouldn't hold your breath on the refund. I spoke to them last week about the issue I had and ended up speaking to one of guys who helped with the design. I sent them some photo's with me wearing the jacket as they suspected I had ordered the wrong size. I also tried on a small today in the Manchester store to check this out and whilst the small is the perfect length it was just too tight across the chest and when I spoke with them again today they confirmed that they felt whilst the medium is too long its the right size for my chest and although very sympathetic they did not offer a refund or exchange.

I'd be really interested in what they have to say about your issue. I haven't ridden mine in bad rain yet and until reading this I had decided to keep it but if it relies on constant amount of body heat to keep warm when wet then I worry about stopping for a brew on a cold wintery ride and then having to get back up to temperature again.

P

bendertherobot

PaulMon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Another night. Another test. Tonight, moderate rain, 1 hour, 20 miles. Soaked, absolutely soaked.

I'm going to email them tomorrow to say, well, it just doesn't work. Rain gets in, lots of it and when it does I don't stay warm.

Now, they don't claim waterproof but it SHOULD be better than a Gabba. I don't think it is. I wonder if they'll refund. It's not in the classics section so I am not hopeful.

I wouldn't hold your breath on the refund. I spoke to them last week about the issue I had and ended up speaking to one of guys who helped with the design. I sent them some photo's with me wearing the jacket as they suspected I had ordered the wrong size. I also tried on a small today in the Manchester store to check this out and whilst the small is the perfect length it was just too tight across the chest and when I spoke with them again today they confirmed that they felt whilst the medium is too long its the right size for my chest and although very sympathetic they did not offer a refund or exchange.

I'd be really interested in what they have to say about your issue. I haven't ridden mine in bad rain yet and until reading this I had decided to keep it but if it relies on constant amount of body heat to keep warm when wet then I worry about stopping for a brew on a cold wintery ride and then having to get back up to temperature again.

P

Mine's currently got 16 watchers on eBay. Once it sells out at Rapha I'll add that to the listing.

It was soaked through tonight. Front, entire arms, only reason back wasn't was because I had a rucksack on. My conclusion, overall, is that, despite its seam taping, it's not as water resistant as a Gabba.

Anonymous

The thing is at these temperatures, you are better off being 'boil in the bag' with just a baselayer underneath. (As I did last Thursday). If it's properly cold, then a warmer jersey or 2nd base layer could be used.

The downside being is if you have to stop for an extended period.