Rapha's Gabba?

ddraver

Thanks bud - the Pro Team Cap fabric is s'posed to be a bit more breathable so maybe that's what I need. Will have to have a try when I'm in the shop (I suspect that as a larger man, even the XXL will be too much of a squeeze

gweeds

Mine's just arrived.

Echo the thoughts on fit and feel. It's a very premium fabric and feels great against the skin. Certainly less 'stiff' than my Hardshell. Fit is a size up as per other Pro Team fabrics. Higher neckline than the Pro Team Jackets. The Pro Team Jacket feels like it'll be warmer compared to this, so this is clearly aimed at less cold days but wetter ones. Arms are snug but about par with the Pro Team jacket. The Hardshell arms have a lot more room in them in comparison, and that jacket is less 'race-fit'.

I'd go with this in terms of product demarcation:

Very wet weather and lower tempo riding - Hardshell with base or jersey
Very wet weather and very cold lower tempo- Hardshell with base and jersey
Very wet weather and very cold higher tempo - Pro Team Jacket with Rain Jacket
Very cold but dry higher tempo - Pro Team Jacket with thicker layers
Less cold but dry higher tempo - Pro Team Softshell
Less cold and wet higher tempo - Pro Team Softshell
Less cold and dry lower tempo - Pro Team Jacket with thinner layers or Pro Team Softshell

By very cold I'd say anything around 3c or lower. I know from experience that the Pro Team Jacket starts to feel too warm for me at around 12-14c and then I'm into a LS jersey and gilet. That could well be replaced by the Pro Team Softshell option now.

LegendLust

bendertherobot wrote:

Personally, I think the Hardshell is the perfect commuter jacket. Even long and slow you'd end up being hot and damp. It's great when it's weeing down over 20 miles or so mind!

So I think that's what the new softshell is for. The long and slow ride. Supposed to be very wet tomorrow so I'll test it for you all. I don't hang about on my commute......

Are you sure? The Gabba (and it's ilk) was designed for racing and hard riding training - your body heat built up by the hard work is what keeps you warm.

on-yer-bike

Dont think its for the long slow ride. Its too tight and you can only have one base layer under it. P T stuff isnt for riding slowly. Mine is a M Im 38" chest, no gut and its ridiculous.

bendertherobot

on-yer-bike wrote:

Dont think its for the long slow ride. Its too tight and you can only have one base layer under it. P T stuff isnt for riding slowly. Mine is a M Im 38" chest, no gut and its ridiculous.

Depends how hot you run. To me this seems too warm for a big tempo ride. I'll see tomorrow but I have doubts about how breathable it is.

cookeeemonster

Gweeds wrote:

...
By very cold I'd say anything around 3c or lower. I know from experience that the Pro Team Jacket starts to feel too warm for me at around 12-14c and then I'm into a LS jersey and gilet. That could well be replaced by the Pro Team Softshell option now.

Just goes to show how we're all different. I can't use the pro team jacket above around 6 degrees as I run too hot. At 12-14 degrees I think I'd pass out

meanredspider

Absolutely - if "very cold" is <3C, my Highland commute was "very cold" at least 4 months a years. I wonder what -11C is on this scale (that was my "very cold")

dork_knight

This jacket looks interesting.

I purchased the Hardshell last December as I felt I needed something for the really rough weather, every year I start to feel the cold that little bit more but so far this year I never felt the need to get out the hardshell... that was until last week where the temperature dropped with the rain.

I broke out the hardshell only to find that it no longer fits dues to weight loss this year :rolleyes: Just goes to show how often I would need a jacket like the hardshell and layering does a good job.

This jacket looks like it would get a lot more ride time than a hardshell and it's cheaper, couldn't come at much of a worse time with Christmas around the corner ~ I think the hardshell will have to go on ebay to fund one of these.

gweeds

That's what happens when you live in the highlands I guess

Pro Team Jacket with a very thing SS base in underneath is fine for me to about 12c. Wind will obviously factor in as not all 12c days are equal.....

I chose 3c because that's typically around where we'd start to see frosts occurring. I know an awful lot of people who stop riding then because of ice etc. Obviously I did specify wearing more or less underneath the PT Jacket depending on the outside temp.

I used to run a lot hotter - then I lost 2 stone through riding and now run a lot cooler.

meanredspider

Gweeds wrote:

I chose 3c because that's typically around where we'd start to see frosts occurring. I know an awful lot of people who stop riding then because of ice etc.

I notice when I'm cycling in Amsterdam, I'm the only person without a coat

My rule of thumb was to swap to the MTB with Ice Spikers when there was frost on the car. On a couple of occasions I ignore this on my 30+ mile RT commute, I felt the back wheel let go under load on ice and would spend the rest of the ride trying not to snap the saddle in two with my clenched buttocks :shock:

gweeds

I can hear them now

'Look at the crazy Scotland man with no coat'

bendertherobot

Right, moderately quick ride this morning. Commute of just shy of 20 miles.

Light rain, drizzle. Crucially also about 10 degrees to a good test of whether it's too warm.

In similar conditions I would find that the Gabba would soak through. Mostly because drizzle tends to stick to the material more than actual rain, then ooze through.

I've taken the jacket off. Much of the outer surface it wet but beads very well. Better than a Gabba, worse, of course, than the hardshell.

The inside is damp, I don't think we can except miracles, I had to peel it off. It's drying on the radiatior now.

But, here's the thing, I'm dry. Where before my base layer would be damp or, at least, have damp spots on it I'm very dry. My shoulders in particular are bone dry. There's some dampness in my lower arms but with all jackets that where I run hot. The one thing that annoyed me about the Gabba was that taping the shoulder seams seemed such an easy fit.

So, at the moment, I'd say that, yes, this is Rapha's Gabba. But better. I don't know that it's for the truly biblical stuff. You simply cannot beat the hardshell for that. In fact I may wear the same setup on the way home and swap the hardshell in for comparison. Brought in with me just in case.

At the moment it's a keeper. As you may have read I had the Pro Jacket as well. I use the Castelli Alpha(s) where I would otherwise use that, so that jacket is redundant.

ddraver

God damn, I just wish I fitted in one!

snipsnap

bendertherobot wrote:

At the moment it's a keeper. As you may have read I had the Pro Jacket as well. I use the Castelli Alpha(s) where I would otherwise use that, so that jacket is redundant.

let me know if you're selling

bendertherobot

snipsnap wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

At the moment it's a keeper. As you may have read I had the Pro Jacket as well. I use the Castelli Alpha(s) where I would otherwise use that, so that jacket is redundant.

let me know if you're selling

It's gone back

I had one in the summer which I sold. Then bought another recently, ready for winter, with a discount code. Just sat there and I was about to wear it when they released the new version!

on-yer-bike

Hw does the new version differ from the old?

bendertherobot

on-yer-bike wrote:

Hw does the new version differ from the old?

Not new or old. Bad choice of words perhaps from me.

Rapha Pro Team Jacket is a windstopper, fleece lined, jersey backed, cold weather tempo jacket.

Rapha Pro Team Softshell jacket is a windstopper full body, no fleece lining, windstopper backed, cold and wet weather tempo jacket.

bernithebiker

I've been using a Castelli Espresso Due since Jan 14.

£155.

It's very warm and toasty, good slim fit and it seems reasonably waterproof (I don't really go out in the wet if I can help it).

Can anyone advise what if anything, this new Rapha jacket or the Castelli Alpha brings to the party?

(Serious question - I would consider buying one if I felt it was significantly superior).

bendertherobot

The Espresso Due is great. I had one, used it in deep winter.

It's not waterproof, as you say. Indeed I wouldn't wear it on a day where I planned on getting wet. It's ok to hold out the odd shower. Mostly because it's windstopper. Most windstoppers will do that. The ingress will eventually come through the fabric but, especially, the seams.

The Alpha jacket is a competitor to the Espresso. In my view it's AS warm, certainly more aero, more comfortable and, crucially, much better in the wet. Why? Because it's windstopper all over. In fact it's so light you might conclude it can't do that job.

The Rapha Softshell Pro Team is not a competitor. I'd not ditch the Espresso for that in terms of warmth. What it is for is those days that start out wet or you know will be wet.

bernithebiker

bendertherobot wrote:

The Espresso Due is great. I had one, used it in deep winter.

It's not waterproof, as you say. Indeed I wouldn't wear it on a day where I planned on getting wet. It's ok to hold out the odd shower. Mostly because it's windstopper. Most windstoppers will do that. The ingress will eventually come through the fabric but, especially, the seams.

The Alpha jacket is a competitor to the Espresso. In my view it's AS warm, certainly more aero, more comfortable and, crucially, much better in the wet. Why? Because it's windstopper all over. In fact it's so light you might conclude it can't do that job.

The Rapha Softshell Pro Team is not a competitor. I'd not ditch the Espresso for that in terms of warmth. What it is for is those days that start out wet or you know will be wet.

OK, thanks for that.

As I look out the window at home, it's tipping it down (although mild, 12'C) and no way am I going out cycling.

I am very much a fair weather cyclist, so it's good that I can pretty much choose when I want to go out!

So the Rapha seems redundant for me, whereas the Alpha sounds like a slimmed down, more waterproof version of the Espresso, which is good, as if I had one critique of the Espresso it would be that it is a bit bulky.

Anonymous

Shame. I think if I had a day with nothing to do I would go out for the fun of it if I had a nice 30-40 mile loop.

ddraver

Bernie - just as an fyi, you re not really comparing Apples with Apples between the Alpha and the Rapha pro softshell...

on-yer-bike

bendertherobot wrote:

on-yer-bike wrote:

Hw does the new version differ from the old?

Not new or old. Bad choice of words perhaps from me.

Rapha Pro Team Jacket is a windstopper, fleece lined, jersey backed, cold weather tempo jacket.

Rapha Pro Team Softshell jacket is a windstopper full body, no fleece lining, windstopper backed, cold and wet weather tempo jacket.

I thought you wee referring to the tweaks they've made to the regular PT jacket. The new PTSF is very tight and very short not sure about keeping it. It feels way too small until I bend forward then not so bad.

bendertherobot

I thought the length was ok.

Anyhow, a ride home tonight in TRULY miserable conditions. Rain, gales, sheets of rain, drizzle, rain. Horrible. But not cold.

So, is it breathable? Yes. I think so, in fact I think it IS for the long, fast ride because it isn't overly warm. I don't know yet how it will cope with the same conditions as tonight but 4 degrees. A better base layer will help. I think.

Is it the holy grail of water proofing? No. It doesn't claim to be. And it's not 100% resistant either. Water does penetrate though, like this morning, I don't know if that's water getting out or getting in. Once again, my base layer was much less damp than it would have been in the Gabba. When you take it off it's clearly heavier and, as such, holding water but not much of it was on me. It's better than the Gabba in that respect.

Is it perfect? No. But I don't think perfection is possible.

Is it epic? You know what, I was blasting along tonight with a massive grin on my face. Me against the elements. Going as fast on a commute as I've been in recent memory and this was epic.

So, my conclusions. Go to jackets for cold and dry days. The Alpha's.

Go to for biblical slow commute. Hardshell. Smug mode in that. You WILL be dry.

Go to for fast commutes, club runs and racing in the wet. This. It's the Gabba Ultimate. Definitely worth the extra over the Gabba.

What would I change? That glossy rear pocket. Pointless for me (though if you have no mudguards, fine). I'd shorten the arms by a cm or so. Maybe a slightly fleecier neck lining.

domc21

I'm just gonna stick it out until the short sleeve version is out, Im pretty happy in my race cape over a base layer for the wet days...

itboffin

If it could have kept me dry in today's shite commute both ways I'd buy two tomorrow as it is weather like today is only bareable by multiple layers of base, windproof and full waterproof.

Dry but too hot

Sir Velo

Great looking piece of kit and some good review from Bender. At the moment I am trying to let my 'head' rule rather than my 'heart' although I suspect I will weaken at some point.

Truth is I don't race enough in conditions when this would be the perfect answer, mainly do TTs and Tri's with temperatures high enough to simply ride in the rain and get wet. My club rides I would use my Rapha classic softshell or pro team jacket and not really needing to be 'race aero' would stuff a rain jacket in the back pocket for heavy rain.

Now an early or late season long distance Tri (when putting in on an off is not such a time issue) is something to consider.

Commute within London and again don't need to be race aero particulary with a rucksack on my back. So classic softshell is fine. For heavy rain out comes the Hardshell, but to be honest it hardly gets an outing (but nice as an ultimate bad weather back up).

So currently trying not to sit on the Rapha web site with my credit card any where near me, but it is hard.

SV

thegreatdivide

Mine arrived the other day but only just picked it up. I can manage to fit a mesh merino l/s base layer and the new style PT jersey (both size small) under my PT Race Cape (size medium) but the Cape is not warm enough for Baltic, windy sleety Scottish days, but it’s been my go-to for spring/summer/autumn. This new toy might just be the missing bit of kit (he convinces himself). Like a lot of you I wear my PT jacket for the dry winter days. I match it with a l/s merino and buff or the pretty superb Rapha l/s winter merino with the high neck. It’s a lot thicker than the standard merino base and the two bits can easily handle sub-zero temps.

bendertherobot

Base layers is an interesting discussion. I paired mine with my lightest one last night, a Craft LS WS front thingy. It's the least warm of my base layers so I wear it when I want my outer layer to be less toasty.

At 10 degrees last night it was very comfortable. Very breathable.

I don't think that combo will work at 5 degrees so next time I'll try the warmer HH merino one. Then, finally, I'll try the HH freeze base layer, which is mega toasty.

cookeeemonster

so I'm considering ebaying my pro team and gabba/arm warmers combo for this...

...pro team jacket is great but too warm unless it's really cold (so dont get so much use...he says before proper winter really kicks in...) and the gabba isn't as breathable as I was led to believe...and i dont rate the nanoflex arm warmers at all.

So I run hot and would mostly use this on my commute for both wet rides and coldish days (layered up if necessary). Think it'd work?

Saying that they've sold out of the grey...need to see the red in the flesh before I buy it