Using a Go Pro

bendertherobot

To live record a race is acceptable right? I mean, as long as the mounting of it isn't dangerous to anyone?

ugo.santalucia

I would be surprised if it was legal... it is certainly one of those things that has no use in a race, can fall off and potentially cause some injury in a crash... I don't know what the rule is, but I would certainly be against the use of un-necessary devices in a bunch scenario

andyp

bendertherobot wrote:

To live record a race is acceptable right? I mean, as long as the mounting of it isn't dangerous to anyone?

Given the number of videos on YouTube, Vimeo etc of exactly this, I don't think it can be against any regulations.

The bigger issue is, how do you prevent it from being dull?

bendertherobot

Bunch, Me? Lol.

It's more for posterity really. I'll edit it down to 5 minutes. It's also useful to show to get more people involved.

crossed

Best thing to do would be to check with the commissaire before the race. I can't see it being a problem though.

bendertherobot

Good shout. Our league is pretty relaxed. We even have people doing it on bike shaped objects. I'm actually using the MTB tomorrow as the x bike needs some stuff doing to it.

Simon_Rhino

Eastern League say:

Riders are reminded that cameras are not allowed to be fixed to bikes or on riders during racing. It contravenes British Cycling Regulation 3.2.7 which applies to all types of racing and states: “Pumps, spare tyres and race computers must be securely fastened. All other equipment not essential for racing purposes must be removed.”

bendertherobot

Welsh league?

ugo.santalucia

I think it's a sensible rule that any league should implement...

bendertherobot

And if they have, then I won't.

Interestingly the Welsh league cite the cyclocross BC rule book, which does not prohibit such items rather than the road rulebook.

It's going under the bars, incidentally, horizontally so, in effect, placed against the head tube. I'm not exactly sure how that poses any danger.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

It's going under the bars, incidentally, horizontally so, in effect, placed against the head tube. I'm not exactly sure how that poses any danger.

In the case of a crash it's best to minimise the amount of potentially dangerous flying objects... it's just good practice to keep the bikes and equipment lean and strip off the non essential, that's the philosophy behind the rules... it makes a lot of sense to me

bendertherobot

It's Allen keyed on at both ends on a cnc bracket.

bendertherobot

This. Vertically down.

http://image.dhgate.com/albu_276362887_ ... s-22mm.jpg

tgotb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

It's going under the bars, incidentally, horizontally so, in effect, placed against the head tube. I'm not exactly sure how that poses any danger.

In the case of a crash it's best to minimise the amount of potentially dangerous flying objects... it's just good practice to keep the bikes and equipment lean and strip off the non essential, that's the philosophy behind the rules... it makes a lot of sense to me

I don't really see how this could be a problem in practice; in a multiple-bike pile-up, exposed big rings are going to much more of an issue, as are tree stumps, fence posts, walls, steps, concrete edges, rocks, whole trees etc. That said, I'm not sure how often multiple pileups happen in CX races anyway. The vast majority of crashes involve just one rider, and on the sort of terrain where a crash is likely, you tend to ride in such a way that you won't get taken out if the rider ahead loses it.

As for bunch scenarios, how often do you actually end up riding round the course in a group of more than 2 or 3? Very rarely indeed, in my experience...

Simon_Rhino

unfortunately it seems as though you're only making it less likely with a 'permanent' fixing

“Chest mounted cameras and bike mounted cameras are not permitted. Any mounts attached to the bike have to be removed prior to event.”

Also you should be aware that:

“Metal or permanent fixtures to attach the cameras are not allowed. Tape, velcro or ties are allowed to secure the device, which must be removed for competition

ugo.santalucia

TGOTB wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

It's going under the bars, incidentally, horizontally so, in effect, placed against the head tube. I'm not exactly sure how that poses any danger.

In the case of a crash it's best to minimise the amount of potentially dangerous flying objects... it's just good practice to keep the bikes and equipment lean and strip off the non essential, that's the philosophy behind the rules... it makes a lot of sense to me

I don't really see how this could be a problem in practice; in a multiple-bike pile-up, exposed big rings are going to much more of an issue, as are tree stumps, fence posts, walls, steps, concrete edges, rocks, whole trees etc. That said, I'm not sure how often multiple pileups happen in CX races anyway. The vast majority of crashes involve just one rider, and on the sort of terrain where a crash is likely, you tend to ride in such a way that you won't get taken out if the rider ahead loses it.

As for bunch scenarios, how often do you actually end up riding round the course in a group of more than 2 or 3? Very rarely indeed, in my experience...

The scenario doesn't matter, does it? There are rules, I think the rules make sense as they are designed to minimise risk where possible ... you can argue that chainrings are more dangerous, yet you need them to propel yourself forward, so you can't remove them...
You know the rulebook better than I do, don't know why suddenly you turn against it... cameras are pointless, they are toys you put on the bike and do not serve a purpose... they should not be allowed in a race, by the book they aren't...

bendertherobot

So,rules then. The rules for this one are no Cameras except on the parade lap. But, after that, Garmins, mudguards, racks, light mounts, pumps etc are allowed.

And, Ugo, racing? Me? No, for the fun of it. Are these unnecessary toys? Probably. But it's nice to have something to share with the mates I did it with, and also nice to be able to show those who have no idea what to expect, something about a particular race. To get more people involved. Not that we were wanting for people today!

tgotb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The scenario doesn't matter, does it? There are rules, I think the rules make sense as they are designed to minimise risk where possible ... you can argue that chainrings are more dangerous, yet you need them to propel yourself forward, so you can't remove them...
You know the rulebook better than I do, don't know why suddenly you turn against it... cameras are pointless, they are toys you put on the bike and do not serve a purpose... they should not be allowed in a race, by the book they aren't...

If we're going to get pedantic, here are the BC equipment rules for cyclocross:

13 EQUIPMENT
13.1 Other than under the provisions of 13.2, races shall be
open to any type of bike without restriction, with the
exception that all non-standard wheels must meet UCI
regulations.
13.2 National Championship and National Trophy races are
restricted to cyclo-cross bicycles only, as defined by the
regulations of the UCI.

So whether the other BC equipment rules apply is a very grey area at best. In the real World, it's hard to imagine a commissaire with any common sense getting particularly upset about someone using a Go Pro, and it's very hard to imagine how someone could be injured by one, unless they maybe tried to swallow it.

As Andy P pointed out, there are enough YouTube videos to suggest the practice is commonplace (I occasionally use them to get an idea of what a course will be like if I haven't ridden it). There are also a few rather exciting videos shot from under-saddle cameras in UCI Pro road race sprints (where multiple-bike pileups are commonplace) so it seems that even the upper echelons of the UCI aren't that bothered.

Ugo - why don't you come along to a race and see for yourself how laid-back and inclusive the racing is? There's one at Hillingdon in 3 weeks...

ugo.santalucia

TGOTB wrote:

Ugo - why don't you come along to a race and see for yourself how laid-back and inclusive the racing is? There's one at Hillingdon in 3 weeks...

My friend Steve just started, he has all the technique and he's much better than me at anything off road... yet 37th out of 56 at Luton... I could probably do a bit better than finish last, to be honest I'd rather go for a ride in the woods round here, less hassle, no charges.
If I can't be reasonably competitive I am not interested in just tottering around the course and I am not dextrous enough to learn the technique
So that's a non starter

devhads

As Simon_Rhino says definitely not allowed in Eastern league, riders seen with cameras at the call up will not be allowed to start or disqualified if seen when racing.

Personally if it's a course I've not ridden before I too like to scour You Tube for these sorts of videos to get an idea of what type of course it will be.

My friend Steve just started, he has all the technique and he's much better than me at anything off road... yet 37th out of 56 at Luton... I could probably do a bit better than finish last, to be honest I'd rather go for a ride in the woods round here, less hassle, no charges.
If I can't be reasonably competitive I am not interested in just tottering around the course and I am not dextrous enough to learn the technique
So that's a non starter

Looking at the results from Luton your friend would have been very competitive to achieve that result, it may not seem to be a world beating result but he must have worked pretty hard to get 37th and he's beat some pretty good riders there. The point is though you would be competitive with the people around you week in week out so overall position in the race in cross is less relevant.

ugo.santalucia

devhads wrote:

The point is though you would be competitive with the people around you week in week out so overall position in the race in cross is less relevant.

Just can't get excited about it... other things I want to do off road. As soon as days get longer, I'd like to have a go at doing the Ridgeway in one day... or the Wiltshire part and back, which is the same distance but circular

Paul 8v

At our club league a few people use them, the way to stop it being dull is to collect all the footage from all the bikes and edit them in to one. That and the fact we had a drone cam flying over us the other week (That was pretty cool)

tgotb

Paul 8v wrote:

At our club league a few people use them, the way to stop it being dull is to collect all the footage from all the bikes and edit them in to one. That and the fact we had a drone cam flying over us the other week (That was pretty cool)

A drone has way more potential to be dangerous than a Go Pro attached to someone's bike :-)

Seriously though, I assume the risk of flying a drone at a CX race is still pretty negligible, unless you count people who ride into a tree becasue they're too busy looking at the drone. Anything that enhances people's enjoyment of racing, either during or after the event, or encourages more people to have a go, has to be a good thing...

bendertherobot

I saw the drone footage of the North Wales one. It's excellent.

So, after a bit of digging, it appears:

" Rumours suggest that the rule comes British Cycling becoming increasing nervous about legal action following a number of incidents at their events. The use of wearable helmet camera footage as evidence could be used to pursue legal action against British Cycling."

Which, perhaps, makes a little more sense. Though, of course, there are enough people on so many parts of the course with their own cameras so as to render it more likely that the claim would come from that. But, clearly, a POV cam, has more potential to be used to highlight a particular danger.

I have to say that, generally, it seems better for me that there IS evidence if someone were to pursue BC for breach of duty. That way it would root out the more spurious claims that had no evidence.

Anyway, by the by, I emailed next week's organisers and they confirm no cams except during warm up. Seems consistent with the BC policy.

slowbike

Seems a bit daft and a bit spoilsport type mentality.

That said - a GoPro housing can easily break off and there's nowhere to attach a strap on the housing although I put a small chord around the hinge bar as a just-in-case. It wouldn't be a long term attachment - but hopefully enough time for me to stop, pull the whole lot off and stuff in a pocket before carrying on - I don't race though so no great issues for me.

If I really wanted video footage of the race I'd be tempted to use a keyfob camera - these could be secreted in various places and being small and light would be less of a danger to others.

tgotb

bendertherobot wrote:

So, after a bit of digging, it appears:

Interesting, that does make a lot more sense. Like you I'm not entirely convinced by the logic, but I'm not a lawyer. Also explains why it doesn't seem to be an issue for UCI Pro races.

Paul 8v

I have my go pro on a K Edge mount on the bars, underslung. I very much doubt there is much you could do to break it off and it's easily tethered, the same for a saddle mounted one. On a helmet is different as I've always wondered how it interferes with the integrity of the helmet in a crash (I heard that may have been what caused the problems with Schumacher's crash but I can't find a source)

The drone is fine as long as you haven't got a numpty flying it. In the majority of cross races you're too busy chewing the stem to take much notice of it but it speeds you up a bit as it feels like you're being chased by a swarm of angry hornets...

bendertherobot

TGOTB wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

So, after a bit of digging, it appears:

Interesting, that does make a lot more sense. Like you I'm not entirely convinced by the logic, but I'm not a lawyer. Also explains why it doesn't seem to be an issue for UCI Pro races.

I am I guess it's one of those things. It's arguably better, from the point of defending, for there to be no evidence. That way you can a) expect less claims and b) defeat them easier.

Scatterbug

Banned at Welsh league events - I wasted £300 buying 2 cameras and the mounts only to be told on the start line not to use them. I wanted the footage for post ride analysis and to upload the first lap as a resource for others so they could see the courses.

bendertherobot

Scatterbug wrote:

Banned at Welsh league events - I wasted £300 buying 2 cameras and the mounts only to be told on the start line not to use them. I wanted the footage for post ride analysis and to upload the first lap as a resource for others so they could see the courses.

Just do what I do, upload the warm up lap then, after the race, do another.

bendertherobot

Looks like UCI camera overload next year.