Richmond Park - well that was interesting

lostboysaint

Prhymeate wrote:

I can't be the only one who hasn't had any problems with drivers or other cyclists in RP?
I get that it's busier on a weekend and it's annoying when drivers don't signal at the roundabouts, but other than that...

There wasn't a problem with the drivers not signalling at roundabouts, or having a basic understanding of the rights of way on the roads - in fact the drivers were, without exception, very well behaved - it was the cyclists. I only saw one other cyclist signal their intentions, less than 50% obey basic right of way rules (let alone common courtesies of riding in groups or traffic) and there were several near misses, again caused by a fundamental unwillingness to adhere to the basic traffic laws.

surrey_commuter

marcusjb wrote:

^ don't forget the massive 4-legged lumps of meat with antlers - they can make things fun in the dark!

Don't ruin the surprise.... and they are definitely light absorbing

veronese68

Surrey Commuter wrote:

marcusjb wrote:

^ don't forget the massive 4-legged lumps of meat with antlers - they can make things fun in the dark!

Don't ruin the surprise.... and they are definitely light absorbing

Very much so. Apparently lots of frogs in the road at the moment, comments in the commuting section about them.

max1234

less than 50% obey basic right of way rules (let alone common courtesies of riding in groups or traffic)

How do you come up with this statistic? If there a chance you're being a drama queen?

lostboysaint

max1234 wrote:

less than 50% obey basic right of way rules (let alone common courtesies of riding in groups or traffic)

How do you come up with this statistic? If there a chance you're being a drama queen?

It's pretty straightforward really. Keeping my eyes open and observing the number of riders that didn't comply with basic road law at any one time. Admittedly there's an assumption that I caught them at the ONLY moment in their ride where they didn't and they behaved like little angels everywhere else and that it was all my fault - any statistician will tell you that's possible.

But yes, I am complete drama queen. Love you toots.

kingtubby

To be fair to the OP, a lot of the weekend cyclists in the park fall into the weekend warrior category and also London Dynamo do take their legal ownership of the park on Saturday mornings so everyone else needs to respect this.

surrey_commuter

all this muttering about "right of way" makes me think he was going the "wrong" way round

lostboysaint

Surrey Commuter wrote:

all this muttering about "right of way" makes me think he was going the "wrong" way round

Yeah, silly me. Fancy wanting to go clockwise. Obviously stood out as an incomer.

surrey_commuter

lostboysaint wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

all this muttering about "right of way" makes me think he was going the "wrong" way round

Yeah, silly me. Fancy wanting to go clockwise. Obviously stood out as an incomer.

Most go ACW as it is perceived to be much safer as there are far less opportunities for cars to turn across you.

buckmulligan

I've been there twice in my 4 years in London, it's crap for cycling. Unless you enjoy tooling around at 15 mph, freewheeling for most of a lap and then having to overtake a million lardarses crawling up the hills as impatient London drivers try to squeeze past.

Just go outside of the city, it's less than an hour's riding in any direction to get into the quiet countryside. If that's too much then get the train, which should be <30 mins.

shmooster

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Oh and ninjas come from far and wide to run, walk the dog and in extreme cases ski, but all wear very dark clothing.

Last winter I almost ran over a guy dressed in black, who was doing press ups in the middle of the road next to white lodge.

ugo.santalucia

BuckMulligan wrote:

I've been there twice in my 4 years in London, it's crap for cycling. Unless you enjoy tooling around at 15 mph, freewheeling for most of a lap and then having to overtake a million lardarses crawling up the hills as impatient London drivers try to squeeze past.

Aren't you just bitching and talking bollox for the sake of it? Did a cop give you a fine for speeding in Richmond Park :roll:

KnightOfTheLongTights

shmooster wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Oh and ninjas come from far and wide to run, walk the dog and in extreme cases ski, but all wear very dark clothing.

Last winter I almost ran over a guy dressed in black, who was doing press ups in the middle of the road next to white lodge.

I always love it when you get runners / joggers on the road. Like there's not about 50,000 miles of tracks and paths around RP WITHOUT cars and bikes on them. Need some darwinism to kick in there. Mind you I reckon anyone who rides a mountain bike around that outer cinder path is a total nobber too.

On RP - it can be a great place to ride a lot of the time for shorter training rides, just got to choose your time: almost anytime when it's crap weather, during the day in the week, after about 7pm in the summer etc.
It's on my way home and from about April to September, two or three evenings a week, I nip in there and do three laps.

If it's busy with traffic then I do intervals: i.e., any time you have clear road, give it everything, on the basis that sooner or later you'll be held up - makes for an interesting and unpredictable ride.

I like it.

buckmulligan

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aren't you just bitching and talking bollox for the sake of it? Did a cop give you a fine for speeding in Richmond Park :roll:

No, that's an entirely accurate representation of my experience of it. I would quite like the opportunity to go out there and give the classic 3-laps-in-an-hour-time-trial a go, but it's just not feasible or safe.

And if anything I'd say the speed limit is probably justified, especially when you often have small kids and wild animals nearby.

As others have said, it'd be great if everyone else would just bugger off, but such as it is, it's a waste of time in my opinion.

ugo.santalucia

BuckMulligan wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Aren't you just bitching and talking bollox for the sake of it? Did a cop give you a fine for speeding in Richmond Park :roll:

No, that's an entirely accurate representation of my experience of it. I would quite like the opportunity to go out there and give the classic 3-laps-in-an-hour-time-trial a go, but it's just not feasible or safe.

And if anything I'd say the speed limit is probably justified, especially when you often have small kids and wild animals nearby.

As others have said, it'd be great if everyone else would just bugger off, but such as it is, it's a waste of time in my opinion.

Try going to bed early and get up at 5 AM... it comes without saying that a park with a 7 miles paved road that goes around it in an 8 million strong metropolis is going to be busy at peak times. It would be depressing if it was otherwise. If London parks weren't full of runners, dog walkers and cyclists they'd end up like the green areas in other European cities, which are instead infested of weed smokers, alcoholics and pick pockets... is that preferable?

lostboysaint

Surrey Commuter wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

all this muttering about "right of way" makes me think he was going the "wrong" way round

Yeah, silly me. Fancy wanting to go clockwise. Obviously stood out as an incomer.

Most go ACW as it is perceived to be much safer as there are far less opportunities for cars to turn across you.

But then pull across the roundabouts to exit the parks without any kind of indication, do all the left turns without telling the traffic waiting what their intentions are etc.etc.

As I said in the OP, the motorists were easily the best behaved bunch in there!

veronese68

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Mind you I reckon anyone who rides a mountain bike around that outer cinder path is a total nobber too.

This is the problem with Richmond Park. Elitist phucktards bitching about other users of the park because it doesn't fit in with their world view.
would you care to expand on that statement? Why is this the case? Because they don't want to ride on the road with cars around or because they have fat tyres and wear baggy shorts?
As I said earlier the park is fine if each group would stop being so selfish and treat other users with a bit of respect.

lostboysaint

Veronese68 wrote:

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Mind you I reckon anyone who rides a mountain bike around that outer cinder path is a total nobber too.

This is the problem with Richmond Park. Elitist phucktards bitching about other users of the park because it doesn't fit in with their world view.
would you care to expand on that statement? Why is this the case? Because they don't want to ride on the road with cars around or because they have fat tyres and wear baggy shorts?
As I said earlier the park is fine if each group would stop being so selfish and treat other users with a bit of respect.

Amen.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Veronese68 wrote:

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Mind you I reckon anyone who rides a mountain bike around that outer cinder path is a total nobber too.

This is the problem with Richmond Park. Elitist phucktards bitching about other users of the park because it doesn't fit in with their world view.
would you care to expand on that statement? Why is this the case? Because they don't want to ride on the road with cars around or because they have fat tyres and wear baggy shorts?
As I said earlier the park is fine if each group would stop being so selfish and treat other users with a bit of respect.

Nothing to do with world view or elitism, it's to do with common sense. That narrow path is used so heavily by runners, dogwalkers and families that it is just plain daft having mountain bikers / hybrids bombing around it (which they do, dangerously and inconsiderately).

veronese68

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Mind you I reckon anyone who rides a mountain bike around that outer cinder path is a total nobber too.

This is the problem with Richmond Park. Elitist phucktards bitching about other users of the park because it doesn't fit in with their world view.
would you care to expand on that statement? Why is this the case? Because they don't want to ride on the road with cars around or because they have fat tyres and wear baggy shorts?
As I said earlier the park is fine if each group would stop being so selfish and treat other users with a bit of respect.

Nothing to do with world view or elitism, it's to do with common sense. That narrow path is used so heavily by runners, dogwalkers and families that it is just plain daft having mountain bikers / hybrids bombing around it (which they do, dangerously and inconsiderately).

Runners dogwalkers and families can go anywhere in the park they are not restricted to the road or that one path. The trail was created to give people somewhere to cycle off the road in the park, and it is a shared use path. I agree that riding dangerously and inconsiderately is wrong, see the bit about respect for others. If people don't want to be near bikes they can use any other path in the park, its a big park with lots of space.
I use the park as a cyclist (on the road or trail), I go for walks in the park and I drive through the park. The only people that cause problems are the inconsiderate ones and those that think they have the right to tell others what they should and shouldn't do.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Veronese68 wrote:

Runners dogwalkers and families can go anywhere in the park they are not restricted to the road or that one path. The trail was created to give people somewhere to cycle off the road in the park, and it is a shared use path. I agree that riding dangerously and inconsiderately is wrong, see the bit about respect for others. If people don't want to be near bikes they can use any other path in the park, its a big park with lots of space.
I use the park as a cyclist (on the road or trail), I go for walks in the park and I drive through the park. The only people that cause problems are the inconsiderate ones and those that think they have the right to tell others what they should and shouldn't do.

so you think it's fine for people to walk and run on the road?

veronese68

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Runners dogwalkers and families can go anywhere in the park they are not restricted to the road or that one path. The trail was created to give people somewhere to cycle off the road in the park, and it is a shared use path. I agree that riding dangerously and inconsiderately is wrong, see the bit about respect for others. If people don't want to be near bikes they can use any other path in the park, its a big park with lots of space.
I use the park as a cyclist (on the road or trail), I go for walks in the park and I drive through the park. The only people that cause problems are the inconsiderate ones and those that think they have the right to tell others what they should and shouldn't do.

so you think it's fine for people to walk and run on the road?

There is quite a lot more to the park than one path and the road. Have you ever been there?

KnightOfTheLongTights

Veronese68 wrote:

There is quite a lot more to the park than one path and the road. Have you ever been there?

Now that really does have the whiff of evasion.

veronese68

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

There is quite a lot more to the park than one path and the road. Have you ever been there?

Now that really does have the whiff of evasion.

OK, just to humour you. I have seen runners in the road. I don't think it's illegal, but it wouldn't be my choice, also I don't believe walking in the road is illegal, just not particularly sensible. For the same reasons I choose not to walk on the trail when I go for walks in the park because I can go almost anywhere. I concede I previously said anywhere but as I'm sure you pedantic enough to point out there are a few areas that are fenced off and are not open to the public. Seeing as it is a PARK with large amounts of green space my choice is to enjoy using the green space that I am allowed to walk on.
Now I'm sure most people understand what I mean but I'm equally sure you will come up with something else. Feel free to prove me wrong on that last point.

buckmulligan

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Try going to bed early and get up at 5 AM... it comes without saying that a park with a 7 miles paved road that goes around it in an 8 million strong metropolis is going to be busy at peak times. It would be depressing if it was otherwise. If London parks weren't full of runners, dog walkers and cyclists they'd end up like the green areas in other European cities, which are instead infested of weed smokers, alcoholics and pick pockets... is that preferable?

I totally agree, I think it's a lovely park. Having a wander through some of the paths through the centre is still at the top of my weekend-to-do-list and I'm seriously considering signing up for the marathon there in May since my ballot entry to the London Marathon was rejected I just don't think it's great for cycling. As you say, you can either get there at 5 AM or brave the throngs of traffic.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at Zac Goldsmith's meeting in December. Having had a quick browse of his website I'm surprised to see that he appears quite 'pro-cycling'.

ugo.santalucia

BuckMulligan wrote:

It'll be interesting to see what happens at Zac Goldsmith's meeting in December. Having had a quick browse of his website I'm surprised to see that he appears quite 'pro-cycling'.

It's a big thing in his constituency and he certainly doesn't want to be seen being unfashionable. I bet if you break down his votes, 80% must be women...

kingstonian

BuckMulligan wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Try going to bed early and get up at 5 AM... it comes without saying that a park with a 7 miles paved road that goes around it in an 8 million strong metropolis is going to be busy at peak times. It would be depressing if it was otherwise. If London parks weren't full of runners, dog walkers and cyclists they'd end up like the green areas in other European cities, which are instead infested of weed smokers, alcoholics and pick pockets... is that preferable?

I totally agree, I think it's a lovely park. Having a wander through some of the paths through the centre is still at the top of my weekend-to-do-list and I'm seriously considering signing up for the marathon there in May since my ballot entry to the London Marathon was rejected I just don't think it's great for cycling. As you say, you can either get there at 5 AM or brave the throngs of traffic.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at Zac Goldsmith's meeting in December. Having had a quick browse of his website I'm surprised to see that he appears quite 'pro-cycling'.

It is a great park - I love going in there for walks with the family and dog. It is where my wife and I got engaged, we were married in Pembroke Lodge, both our boys have taken the stabilisers off their bikes in the park, and now I regularly cycle round it. Yes I have to choose my times to avoid the masses, but as long as I've done that it is a great place to ride.

marcusjb

^ agree with all of that.

We are lucky to have it, particularly those of us who live very close to it. It's a fantastic resource for so many people and a taste of the countryside for many Londoners - yes, it would be great to live in the remote countryside and have all these empty roads to ride on, but. sadly, there's not the work in the remote countryside for many industries, mine included.

But as with any highly-used resource, there's always going to be tensions and we must all do our best to be considerate to all other groups using the park. I am amazed at people who use the centre roads (particularly the Ham Gate to the coffee shack part) at speed at the weekends with little kids learning to ride bikes on there etc.

Go at the right time and it's possible to not see a single other person. Those times are special and, if you want to ride fast, the only times to do it are when the gates are locked, either super-early in the morning or late at night (or not so late now - 6pm locking up - just been in there to try a new bike and it was pretty quiet apart from the rutting deer shouting at each other).

I ride quite a bit of the countryside as well (here's my heatmap since I got a GPS 3 years ago - http://www.strava.com/athletes/990191/h ... 3/-2.26318 ), but I love Richmond Park. I don't know how many laps a year I do, actually not that many this year as I stopped going after the 24hr TT, but probably triple figures most years.

It's the best we've got locally!

KnightOfTheLongTights

Veronese68 wrote:

OK, just to humour you. I have seen runners in the road. I don't think it's illegal, but it wouldn't be my choice, also I don't believe walking in the road is illegal, just not particularly sensible. For the same reasons I choose not to walk on the trail when I go for walks in the park because I can go almost anywhere. I concede I previously said anywhere but as I'm sure you pedantic enough to point out there are a few areas that are fenced off and are not open to the public. Seeing as it is a PARK with large amounts of green space my choice is to enjoy using the green space that I am allowed to walk on.
Now I'm sure most people understand what I mean but I'm equally sure you will come up with something else. Feel free to prove me wrong on that last point.

Fair enough, I don't think we are that far apart - I just don't think in general that 'shared use' in most instances works: you end up with a messy compromise that leaves most people dissatisfied.
So re. the cinder track: I reckon you bite the bullet and either make it a cycling-only track or you ban bikes or you make a parallel path and separate riders from walkers/runners.
My point re. nobbers was aimed at the mountain-bikers who ride round it 'seriously' on sunny weekends when it's packed with pedestrians. Just daft.
I realise that that is a small (but highly visible and high-impact) proportion and that the path is also used for cycling by families who don't want their kids to deal with traffic etc. But that doesn't make the status quo desirable.

veronese68

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

My point re. nobbers was aimed at the mountain-bikers who ride round it 'seriously' on sunny weekends when it's packed with pedestrians. Just daft.

I completely agree with that. We probably do see a lot of it the same way. But this is the same problem as people using the road in a selfish manner, be it driving, cycling or anything else. There are so many people that all users need to be aware of the impact they have on others. Have you seen the people on roller skis? They are not quick and need a lot of space with arms and legs flailing, but they have as much right as anyone to be there. They don't tend to get slagged off as there are so few of them and they are probably just seen as eccentrics.
Anyway, I completely agree with Marcus, well put. It amazes me on a busy day how few people venture more than 100 yards from a car park.