off the peg disc wheelsets?

bendertherobot

thecycleclinic wrote:

They will die bendertherobot just try clarks brake pads and ride the brakes in the wet, that will wear the rims out.

That would involve taking the discs off and fitting cantis. I'll pass.

cycleclinic

Well I did say it was a helpful suggestion. You could try riding PR cobbles all winter you might dent the rim eventually or dent your self.

M1llh0use

Well I've ordered the bike and it's coming in March.

Any updates on what qr-centrelock-disc specific wheelset/builds are here/on the horizon in the ~£500 bracket?

Current fave build would be dt350 hubs/aeliron rims/Sapim race spokes.

ugo.santalucia

M1llh0use wrote:

Well I've ordered the bike and it's coming in March.

Any updates on what qr-centrelock-disc specific wheelset/builds are here/on the horizon in the ~£500 bracket?

Current fave build would be dt350 hubs/aeliron rims/Sapim race spokes.

That's a good starting point. My favourite disc hubs are still Novatec... cheap, reliable, easy to take into parts, all the spares exist as singles and you don't need fancy tools... they are perfect,really. Same can be said about Hope, but they are pricier. The DT ratchet mechanism is easy to service, but if you need to replace the bearings, you need to find a shop that has the DT tool to remove the ring or you need to buy one, which isn't cheap. Independent Shops that carry out jobs more complicated than replacing a cassette are getting scarcer on the high street, replaced by chains like Evans and Halfords who employ mechanics paid at minimum wage with no experience. Worth considering, when deciding which hubs to go for.

These are my end of the year thoughts

http://whosatthewheel.com/2014/12/28/2014-top-picks/

M1llh0use

Good point about the dt hubs.

Do novatec do centrelock hubs or are they six bolt only?

ugo.santalucia

M1llh0use wrote:

Good point about the dt hubs.

Do novatec do centrelock hubs or are they six bolt only?

6 bolts only. You can get rotors for peanuts all year round... most of them are as good as the Shimano ones, just need to avoid the silly ones with more holes than steel. The Avid Clean sweep are excellent and 10 quid each on Chain Reaction.

Remember they are discs of steel of the same diameter, so claiming that one is better than the other is a bit excessive. As long as they are high enough to fully engage with your pads, they are built solid, the only discriminant is the rotor size... but as you are limited to 160 (I assume), then they are pretty much all the same thing.

morph

ugo.santalucia wrote:

M1llh0use wrote:

Good point about the dt hubs.

Do novatec do centrelock hubs or are they six bolt only?

6 bolts only. You can get rotors for peanuts all year round... most of them are as good as the Shimano ones, just need to avoid the silly ones with more holes than steel. The Avid Clean sweep are excellent and 10 quid each on Chain Reaction.

Remember they are discs of steel of the same diameter, so claiming that one is better than the other is a bit excessive. As long as they are high enough to fully engage with your pads, they are built solid, the only discriminant is the rotor size... but as you are limited to 160 (I assume), then they are pretty much all the same thing.

Damn, also of interest to me - Canyon are sending me *theoretically, experience is proving otherwise* a cross bike some time in the next decade. That comes with the DT-Swiss R23 spline DB wheels which use centerlock and was hoping to stick with same system to keep caliper spacing and spares easier.

After being so happy with the handbuilts Ugo made for my road bike last year (6800, Archetype, 32x) I've got a truing stand and going to give building my own a go - currently undecided between Aileron and Pacenti SL25s, and haven't even thought about what spokes to use yet...

ugo.santalucia

morph wrote:

Damn, also of interest to me - Canyon are sending me *theoretically, experience is proving otherwise* a cross bike some time in the next decade. That comes with the DT-Swiss R23 spline DB wheels which use centerlock and was hoping to stick with same system to keep caliper spacing and spares easier.

After being so happy with the handbuilts Ugo made for my road bike last year (6800, Archetype, 32x) I've got a truing stand and going to give building my own a go - currently undecided between Aileron and Pacenti SL25s, and haven't even thought about what spokes to use yet...

1) You can't be sure that you won't need adjustments just because you are sticking with the same brand/system... 6 bolts can be shimmed to adjust rotor position... Centrelock can't I think...

2) They are very similar rims... the Pacenti are a tad cheaper and a tad lighter, so maybe slightly ahead in that respect... the Aileron are deeper if you believe the aerodynamics microscopic gains.
For 32 x 3 cross use Sapim D-Light... they are very nice if a bit pricey

morph

Thanks, helpful as always!
From a bit of googling people have been able to shim centerlock a bit using lockring spacers, and generally sounds like centerlock is less likely to need shimming from one hub to another.

I assume 32x is the way to go for wheels that are probably going to be used for a mixture of on and off road?

ugo.santalucia

morph wrote:

Thanks, helpful as always!
From a bit of googling people have been able to shim centerlock a bit using lockring spacers, and generally sounds like centerlock is less likely to need shimming from one hub to another.

I assume 32x is the way to go for wheels that are probably going to be used for a mixture of on and off road?

32 is always the way to go... you can use lighter spokes to make the weight you want.

cycleclinic

Novatec do a centrelock hub now. Might try and get some. The DT ratchet ring tool is not expenisve (for a shop to buy) I have got one if anyone is really stuck. Given Evan's sell DT Swiss wheels they should have the tools to service them. I would agree not all mechanics know what to do with a wheel though.

32 spoke will give longer spoke life. The rim will not wear out so if you want silly miles from the wheels then 32 spoke all the way.

morph

Interesting, what's price/availability like? I can't find them anywhere, just some mislabelled stuff on Aliexpress.

How often would the bearings in DT Swiss hubs actually need changing? I expect light cross and some road use, cleaned a lot but not with a pressure washer. Given that I'll already have one set of DT swiss hubs, if it's a once every 2 years kind of thing I can probably live with finding a shop to do the replacement.

ugo.santalucia

morph wrote:

Interesting, what's price/availability like? I can't find them anywhere, just some mislabelled stuff on Aliexpress.

How often would the bearings in DT Swiss hubs actually need changing? I expect light cross and some road use, cleaned a lot but not with a pressure washer. Given that I'll already have one set of DT swiss hubs, if it's a once every 2 years kind of thing I can probably live with finding a shop to do the replacement.

They might last 5 years... they are very good.
If you want centre lock the CX 75 are very good hubs... for more money you can get the XTR

morph

Ok, having to find someone to replace them every 4-5 years I can live with

I was thinking about the CX75s but favouring the Novatec or DT-Swiss route as if I ever end up with a thru axle bike I can just switch convert the hubs.

bendertherobot

The new ritchey wcs zeta disc look nice. Well, they would be a tidy option if the euro price wasnt pretty much the same as the dollar price.

ugo.santalucia

morph wrote:

Ok, having to find someone to replace them every 4-5 years I can live with

I was thinking about the CX75s but favouring the Novatec or DT-Swiss route as if I ever end up with a thru axle bike I can just switch convert the hubs.

The thing is... before you receive your Canyon standards will have changed a couple of times... so best not to rush into a shopping spree...

morph

ugo.santalucia wrote:

morph wrote:

Ok, having to find someone to replace them every 4-5 years I can live with

I was thinking about the CX75s but favouring the Novatec or DT-Swiss route as if I ever end up with a thru axle bike I can just switch convert the hubs.

The thing is... before you receive your Canyon standards will have changed a couple of times... so best not to rush into a shopping spree...

So true. Definitely not ordering anything until I have the bike. This week is the 4th time I've been told it's going to ship. Apparently last week they didn't know it was Christmas and the factory wouldn't be building up bikes...

May well be cancelling my order, posting a list of all the crap excuses and contradictory lies from them and getting a bike somewhere else at the end of the week. Shame, as I love my other Canyon, and it's a great deal for a CX with hydraulics.

ugo.santalucia

morph wrote:

May well be cancelling my order, posting a list of all the crap excuses and contradictory lies from them and getting a bike somewhere else at the end of the week. Shame, as I love my other Canyon, and it's a great deal for a CX with hydraulics.

I would...

Don't get too hung up on hydraulics... these are just the version 1.0.... give it 3 years and they'll be obsolete. On the other hand mechanicals are reaching complete maturity and are as good as they'll ever be. Every now and again I think about hydraulics, but they come with 11 speed setups that are not mud friendly and just a PITA.
On balance I would try to get a good frame, good reliable hubs/headset and bottom bracket and not spend too much money on gear/braking components. If you use it off road a lot you will destroy or wear out the components pretty fast, so no point in having expensive stuff on. Sora and Tiagra are perfect for the job. BB7 are good, Hayes CX Expert are good and Spyre are good

morph

I agree with the logic of your argument. But I really miss the feel of hydraulics on the MTB and lack of cable drag and having to replace cables periodically. In 8 years it needed the pads replacing occasionally. Was almost tempted by DI2 as well...

Anyway, before I drag this too far off topic, I'm interested if anyone can provide any more info about this novatec hub with centerlock

M1llh0use

morph wrote:

Anyway, before I drag this too far off topic, I'm interested if anyone can provide any more info about this novatec hub with centerlock

+1

How Far is too Far

2 months in to using a Hydro Froce CX1 groupset ans it has been great. It has been raced in very muddy conditions and I have done 100 mile rides on it. Perfectly reliable with constant smooth braking.

M1llh0use

Any opinions on the novatec cxd wheelset?

ugo.santalucia

M1llh0use wrote:

Any opinions on the novatec cxd wheelset?

I read this review, which as usual is writeen by an incompetent
http://road.cc/content/review/121253-no ... r-wheelset

The Novatec 3 in 1 and 4 in 1 logos do not mean that you can fit a Campagnolo cassette on a Shimano splined freehub, but refer to the possibility to fit different parts to modify the hub. AFAIK only 3T have come out with a freehub that accepts both Shimano and Campagnolo, but I might be wrong on this.

As for the 2 cross pattern increasing stiffness, the reviewer should have realised that a 24H rim laced 2 cross has pretty much the same spoke entry angle on a 32 H laced 3 cross... therefore 2 cross is pretty much the only lacing pattern possible for these.

Stiffness of Disc wheels is a bit harder to assess, given you don't get the classic brake rub in the absence of it. I am not quite sure what the claims are based on.

It would have been nice to know which spokes they use, given they are normally marked with the factory logo. It wouldn't be a big deal to go and read them. There is a substancial difference in quality between DT/Sapim and cheaper alternatives like Pillar and CN often used in taiwanese wheels.

Alloy nipples are of course a plague to be avoided in wheels that will go in the mud, but that seems inevitable if you buy an off the peg set of wheels

The rims appear to be tubeless, but it's not mentioned and it should have been, one way or the other.

Crap review... I'll see if I can get a set to review myself...

M1llh0use

nice one Ugo!

ugo.santalucia

M1llh0use wrote:

nice one Ugo!

I've just built a set of the CL 25 on offer at Planet X... they are not bad rims and crucially they are not overly tight, as 29er rims go. So they might be an option if you want a tubeless rim that can take road and CX tyres too

M1llh0use

ugo.santalucia wrote:

M1llh0use wrote:

nice one Ugo!

I've just built a set of the CL 25 on offer at Planet X... they are not bad rims and crucially they are not overly tight, as 29er rims go. So they might be an option if you want a tubeless rim that can take road and CX tyres too

Not worried about cx, just road disc...

How Far is too Far

I have now been using a CX bike with Sram Force CX1 Hydro for about 800 miles of genral off road and some CX racing. The diffrance is they are so much nicer than any of the cable disk systems I have used before including BB7 and TRP Spyre. They are more powerfully in a very usable way, then you need never adjust them.

When I get back on my winter bike with cable disks after using the hydro, you really notice the difference. I have alos road the Ultegra Hydo on a Canyon CX bike and they are also very good. If you have your heart set on Hydros you will not be disappointed.

It wont be long before most CX and a lot of road bikes are on Hydro IMHO just look at MTBs a few years ago.

antsmithmk

I have just ordered an off the peg disk wheelset weighing 1800g, ultegra hubs etc from everyone's favourite German cycling retailer for a shade over £200...

ugo.santalucia

How Far is too Far wrote:

I have now been using a CX bike with Sram Force CX1 Hydro for about 800 miles of genral off road and some CX racing. The diffrance is they are so much nicer than any of the cable disk systems I have used before including BB7 and TRP Spyre. They are more powerfully in a very usable way, then you need never adjust them.

When I get back on my winter bike with cable disks after using the hydro, you really notice the difference. I have alos road the Ultegra Hydo on a Canyon CX bike and they are also very good. If you have your heart set on Hydros you will not be disappointed.

It wont be long before most CX and a lot of road bikes are on Hydro IMHO just look at MTBs a few years ago.

I pass...

I'll wait and see what Campagnolo does in 2017. By then I might be out of poverty (or deeper into it... )... :?

How Far is too Far

ugo.santalucia wrote:

How Far is too Far wrote:

I have now been using a CX bike with Sram Force CX1 Hydro for about 800 miles of genral off road and some CX racing. The diffrance is they are so much nicer than any of the cable disk systems I have used before including BB7 and TRP Spyre. They are more powerfully in a very usable way, then you need never adjust them.

When I get back on my winter bike with cable disks after using the hydro, you really notice the difference. I have alos road the Ultegra Hydo on a Canyon CX bike and they are also very good. If you have your heart set on Hydros you will not be disappointed.

It wont be long before most CX and a lot of road bikes are on Hydro IMHO just look at MTBs a few years ago.

I pass...

I'll wait and see what Campagnolo does in 2017. By then I might be out of poverty (or deeper into it... )... :?

The only down side to hydo is the cost at the moment, but that will change just look what a set of MTB brakes cost now VS 10 years ago.

I am also now a convert to the Sram CX1 set up, 11 gears is enough for racing and normal riding on a CX bike. Brilliant in the mud and fine on longer faster rides.