Oleg's Eur 1m carrot

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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    RichN95 wrote:
    If they thought that riding three Grand Tours a year (or even two back-to-back) was the best way of winning one, don't you think they'd do it?

    Valverde rode at his best in two... don't think he would have won the Vuelta if he skipped the Tour... it is possible. There is a lot of time between the Giro and the Tour... 5 weeks, it's plenty enough if they are advised properly by a coach with cojones
    left the forum March 2023
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    And 5-6 years? That's nonsense. Nibali has already had five years of GT podiums and Froome four - and they're only 29. They've got five good years still. And Quintana has had two years already and he's just 24.

    It's not nonsense. Riders who won GT many years apart are rare as hen's teeth and they are typically the greatest of the sport. IMO Nibali has a couple of seasons to WIN at best... Froome has only won in 2013... don't care about podiums.. there is always a reason why you podium and you don't win. Arguably he was mature to win in 2012, but that cannot be proved, as it is entirely possible that with no Wiggins he was due to collapse under the pressure. He has another 3 years, 4 at best. Quintana, we will see about Quintana, I can't recall a south American who lasted at the top... there might be a reason for that too. Contador has another 2 seasons at best, but he is the only one of the four who is beyond doubt a great of the sport.
    After they will still be good, but not as good as the next generation who will be mature and ready to win.

    No you said 'they have 5-6 years during which they can win a GT'. If they're on a podium, that's a year they can win.

    To use a favourite quote of mine from Indiana Jones; "It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage". Doing two hard GTs a year is a short cut to burn out.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    If they thought that riding three Grand Tours a year (or even two back-to-back) was the best way of winning one, don't you think they'd do it?

    Valverde rode at his best in two... don't think he would have won the Vuelta if he skipped the Tour... it is possible. There is a lot of time between the Giro and the Tour... 5 weeks, it's plenty enough if they are advised properly by a coach with cojones
    And did Valverde look even remotely like winning either of them? No. Did he fully commit to either? Probably not.

    It may be possible to do back to back GTs. But to genuinely set out to try and win both would require compromise. The only way to do it is to fully commit to the first GT and then see how the second goes with few expectations.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Should rotate the 3 grand tours is in the May/July/Aug-sept slots.

    Makes a lot more sense.
    _
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    I think my point didn't come across: 5-6 years is an average... someone like Contador can win even at 90% or less of his best, which means he can probably win over a full decade. Others need to be at 100% to have a chance... you can't be at your best for that long... there are injuries, there is age and other factors. I think Nibali 2013-2014 is the Nibali we will ever see, from now on it's downhill... how long will it take before Aru becomes better than Nibali? I say 2016 is the year.
    You say Froome was a contender in 2011... no he wasn't... he did a podium at the Vuelta with his team mate and a strong team and was beaten by Cobo... do you think Cobo 2011 would stand a chance against Froome 2013? He would probably get thrashed by 10 minutes. In 2011 Froome was not ready to win, had it not been Cobo, it would have been someone else, maybe even Wiggins.

    Look at Basso, an athlete I know well and forget the doping... in 2004-2005 he wasn't ready to win mentally... had it not been Armstrong, he would have lost by Ullrich or Kloeden or other athlete mentally prepared to win. Giro 2005, he crumbled under the pressure of the pink jersey. Basso was ready to win between 2006 and 2010, that's 5 years. In 2011 he was mentally ready but physically past his best.
    left the forum March 2023
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Should rotate the 3 grand tours is in the May/July/Aug-sept slots.

    Makes a lot more sense.

    Agreed. It'll never happen but if you were going to do something radical, if would be that.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    RichN95 wrote:
    And did Valverde look even remotely like winning either of them? No. Did he fully commit to either? Probably not.

    I do think Valverde was at his best in both and yes, he gave it 100% in both. He finished as high as possible in the Vuelta and maybe could have made podium at the Tour, but it's arguable... these French were on fire!
    left the forum March 2023
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Look at Basso, an athlete I know well and forget the doping... in 2004-2005 he wasn't ready to win mentally... had it not been Armstrong, he would have lost by Ullrich or Kloeden or other athlete mentally prepared to win. Giro 2005, he crumbled under the pressure of the pink jersey. Basso was ready to win between 2006 and 2010, that's 5 years. In 2011 he was mentally ready but physically past his best.

    Now I'm a Basso fan-boi. In 2005 Giro he crumbled under the pressure of a bad blood bag, nothing else.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    iainf72 wrote:
    Now I'm a Basso fan-boi. In 2005 Giro he crumbled under the pressure of a bad blood bag, nothing else.
    That is possible... so the question is: why did he had a transfusion in the middle of the Giro? COuld it be because he wasn't sure he would win it? I think physically he was miles better than anyone, but mentally not ready... He did a lot of mistakes at the Tour too... both in 2004 and 2005... basically trying to plase Armstrong to get a spot on the podium... that's a loser's attitude.

    I hate the fact I have not been able to see Basso Vs Ullrich at the TdF 2006...
    left the forum March 2023
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Now I'm a Basso fan-boi. In 2005 Giro he crumbled under the pressure of a bad blood bag, nothing else.
    That is possible... so the question is: why did he had a transfusion in the middle of the Giro? COuld it be because he wasn't sure he would win it? I think physically he was miles better than anyone, but mentally not ready... He did a lot of mistakes at the Tour too... both in 2004 and 2005... basically trying to plase Armstrong to get a spot on the podium... that's a loser's attitude.

    I hate the fact I have not been able to see Basso Vs Ullrich at the TdF 2006...

    Well, the timing of the transfusion would make sense - Before big summit finish. Doesn't go well, he's ill, or "drank too much cold water". From a mid-00's blood doping angle the timing makes sense. Why would he take blood onboard? Because that's what they did at the time. Mid race top up as it were.

    But I broadly agree with your point around the Tour. He was physically better than Armstrong but mentally not so much.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    iainf72 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Should rotate the 3 grand tours is in the May/July/Aug-sept slots.

    Makes a lot more sense.

    Agreed. It'll never happen but if you were going to do something radical, if would be that.

    Agreed too although swapping Giro and Vuelta and keeping Tour in July would be more realistic.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    What do you think the chances are of all four targetting the TDF?
    Ultimately is that not what we really want to see?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TailWindHome wrote:
    What do you think the chances are of all four targetting the TDF?
    Ultimately is that not what we really want to see?

    If I was being greedy I'd want to see them all do the Giro-Tour combo...
    _
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Should rotate the 3 grand tours is in the May/July/Aug-sept slots.

    Makes a lot more sense.

    Never going to happen obviously.

    But I've always said that switching the Giro and Vuelta would at least increase the chances of seeing the top GT riders battle it out in the top two GTs of the year. Plus, inclement weather at the start of the year hurts the Giro more than the Vuelta.

    I don't think it's a serious offer from Oleg but at least someone with some amount of influence is publicly bringing up the issue.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Bahamontes:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/federi ... -challenge
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    True Champion talk from Contador:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/con ... t-possible

    610x-42-2.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • type:epyt
    type:epyt Posts: 766
    ^ Seems the new jersey isn't the only camouflage.
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,707
    This headline is wrong:
    Contador: "Giro-Tour double is only impossible until someone makes it possible".

    Clearly he was misquoted. It should read something.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

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