Oleg's Eur 1m carrot

ugo.santalucia

RichN95 wrote:

That's why I'd focus more on the team competition. Because every team is in every race. And they can go for the win with one rider while playing it safe with another.

The problem is that cycling is not a points sport... even Sagan looks miserable with his green jersey if he doesn't win!

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

That's why I'd focus more on the team competition. Because every team is in every race. And they can go for the win with one rider while playing it safe with another.

The problem is that cycling is not a points sport... even Sagan looks miserable with his green jersey if he doesn't win!

I'm not saying that they should make it the main focus of the season, just that they should make a bit more of a big deal of it.

sherer

Paul 8v wrote:

They don't really make a big deal of it which doesn't help its case. At least the women have a jersey to identify the leader of the completion. It's probably because there is such a prestige attached to the world champion and the rainbow jersey, which is instantly recognisable

They used to have a jersey for the leader but then what happens in a stage race if that rider wins a jersey ?

frenchfighter

Nibali:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/10/ ... nge_349012

iainf72

I reckon if Oleg really wanted people do this, he should offer a grown up amount of money. Something like 50% of their annual contract rate. It would land him with a 6 or 7m bill but at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

Paul 8v

sherer wrote:

Paul 8v wrote:

They don't really make a big deal of it which doesn't help its case. At least the women have a jersey to identify the leader of the completion. It's probably because there is such a prestige attached to the world champion and the rainbow jersey, which is instantly recognisable

They used to have a jersey for the leader but then what happens in a stage race if that rider wins a jersey ?

That is also true of the arc en ciel though, I remember Cav at the tour of Britain not wanting to be in (at the time) Gold, as it was the last chance he had to wear it

mroli

iainf72 wrote:

at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

If you'd care to come round here and insult me with that amount of money, be my guest.

FJS

I agree with Oleg.
I'm also disappointed that the Giro doesn't include the San Pellegrino in Alpe next year

iainf72

mroli wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

If you'd care to come round here and insult me with that amount of money, be my guest.

That's the point isn't it? It's context. If you earned €4m per year, would 250K impress you much? That's a whole 6.25% uplift on your annual rate...

Art Vandelay

RichN95 wrote:

Cycling is fairly unique in that is has a large variation of events and it's a team sport with individual winners.

To my mind a bigger deal should be made of the World Tour rankings - but the team rankings, not the individual ones.

I'd like to see this too. I think the teams would be in favour as well and therefore make some commitment to contest it.

tailwindhome

iainf72 wrote:

mroli wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

If you'd care to come round here and insult me with that amount of money, be my guest.

That's the point isn't it? It's context. If you earned €4m per year, would 250K impress you much? That's a whole 6.25% uplift on your annual rate...

....and you have to race 50% more GT days.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

mroli wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

If you'd care to come round here and insult me with that amount of money, be my guest.

That's the point isn't it? It's context. If you earned €4m per year, would 250K impress you much? That's a whole 6.25% uplift on your annual rate...

And you're probably getting a bigger bonus than that for winning one of the GTs anyway.

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

mroli wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

If you'd care to come round here and insult me with that amount of money, be my guest.

That's the point isn't it? It's context. If you earned €4m per year, would 250K impress you much? That's a whole 6.25% uplift on your annual rate...

And you're probably getting a bigger bonus than that for winning one of the GTs anyway.

And that's before you count any endorsements, appearance fees etc.

frenchfighter

These cyclists are not getting salaries anywhere close to 4m a year. Nibs is on 2.8, Contador similar (was on more before and whenever he has to renew this will shoot up). Froome is about 2.5m. No idea about Quintana but I would say significantly less.
Nb. Figures above are salary and excludes sponsorship (Contador gets north of 2m I think).

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

I reckon if Oleg really wanted people do this, he should offer a grown up amount of money. Something like 50% of their annual contract rate. It would land him with a 6 or 7m bill but at least it's not insulting like a couple of hundred K.

Why on Earth would he front that cash which is more than the annual budget of some WT teams :roll:

frenchfighter

Regardless, 3 GTs is totally unrealistic in my view and the racing wont be good at all. 2 is possible though. If they did three then they would ride conservatively and would hardly race any other races which makes those races suffer.

specialgueststar

frenchfighter wrote:

.
Nb. Figures above are salary and excludes sponsorship (Contador gets north of 2m I think).

That's pretty good - in my first 'sponsored' team I was getting south of five inner tubes , two racing tyres and a saddle :?

ugo.santalucia

iainf72 wrote:

That's the point isn't it? It's context. If you earned €4m per year, would 250K impress you much? That's a whole 6.25% uplift on your annual rate...

Have you ever seen a London CEO losing out on 6.25% of his bonus? You won't have enough kleenex in the all of Tesco to wipe away the tears...
And how about footballers refusing to play the ball because the contract renewal is "only" 100,000 pounds per week and not the 110,000 they would be offered at PSG?

Those rich basxards are far more sensitive to a 6% salary than me and you. I could have pocketed a 3K salary incentive as part of a successful research grant last July, but I decided to keep it on a research fund instead... gosh, I should apply for an MBE at the very least...

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

These cyclists are not getting salaries anywhere close to 4m a year. Nibs is on 2.8, Contador similar (was on more before and whenever he has to renew this will shoot up). Froome is about 2.5m. No idea about Quintana but I would say significantly less.
Nb. Figures above are salary and excludes sponsorship (Contador gets north of 2m I think).

Isn't Sagan on 4m?

Even if they're on 2m, 250K is nowhere near enough to make it worthwhile doing.

If you can make 30k for a single days "racing" in post Tour crits, Oleg would really need to up his offer. As it stands it's just cheap publicity for him because all the public see is a big figure and don't drill down into it.

iainf72

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Have you ever seen a London CEO losing out on 6.25% of his bonus? You won't have enough kleenex in the all of Tesco to wipe away the tears...
And how about footballers refusing to play the ball because the contract renewal is "only" 100,000 pounds per week and not the 110,000 they would be offered at PSG?

But that's not about the money really. It's about the number and what that number says, as opposed to the actual cash.

The market sets the rate. With Oleg, that market is currently saying his rate is way too low.

ugo.santalucia

iainf72 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Have you ever seen a London CEO losing out on 6.25% of his bonus? You won't have enough kleenex in the all of Tesco to wipe away the tears...
And how about footballers refusing to play the ball because the contract renewal is "only" 100,000 pounds per week and not the 110,000 they would be offered at PSG?

But that's not about the money really. It's about the number and what that number says, as opposed to the actual cash.

The market sets the rate. With Oleg, that market is currently saying his rate is way too low.

Even the latest crop of cyclists will not live a billionaire lifestyle when they retire... a quarter of a million is not to be sniffed at... besides, of course that money will be split with the team and the young domestiques might be quite pleased with a 25 K Euro bonus

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

These cyclists are not getting salaries anywhere close to 4m a year. Nibs is on 2.8, Contador similar (was on more before and whenever he has to renew this will shoot up). Froome is about 2.5m. No idea about Quintana but I would say significantly less.
Nb. Figures above are salary and excludes sponsorship (Contador gets north of 2m I think).

Isn't Sagan on 4m?

Even if they're on 2m, 250K is nowhere near enough to make it worthwhile doing.

If you can make 30k for a single days "racing" in post Tour crits, Oleg would really need to up his offer. As it stands it's just cheap publicity for him because all the public see is a big figure and don't drill down into it.

Yes thats the rumour. But his is miles higher than anyone else (think Gilbert was on 1.5). He is also not a GT contender.

frenchfighter

Its worth noting that if it ever came to pass, other big teams would front some cash as would the three GTs so the amouny would be significantly higher than 250k. And in any case if only one does all three then he takes the whole million. Its never going to happen but im just saying.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Even the latest crop of cyclists will not live a billionaire lifestyle when they retire... a quarter of a million is not to be sniffed at... besides, of course that money will be split with the team and the young domestiques might be quite pleased with a 25 K Euro bonus

So if the main rider is sharing out his incentive, he's going to end up earning less than he can at a criterium for flogging himself all season.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Even the latest crop of cyclists will not live a billionaire lifestyle when they retire... a quarter of a million is not to be sniffed at... besides, of course that money will be split with the team and the young domestiques might be quite pleased with a 25 K Euro bonus

So if the main rider is sharing out his incentive, he's going to end up earning less than he can at a criterium for flogging himself all season.

It's a team sport innit? Seeing Froome racing hard for one week at the Tour (5 mountain stages + 2 TT) and a couple of stages at the Romandy and Dauphine and looking at stats for the rest of the 365 is a bit taking it easy, me thinks...

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's a team sport innit? Seeing Froome racing hard for one week at the Tour (5 mountain stages + 2 TT) and a couple of stages at the Romandy and Dauphine and looking at stats for the rest of the 365 is a bit taking it easy, me thinks...

He also did Oman (1st), Catalunya (6th) and was due to do Tirreno Adriatico. And then did Vuelta (2nd).

In 2013 he did Oman (1st), T-A (2nd), Crit Int (1st), Romandie (1st), Dauphine (1st). He also did some races in North America and rode the Worlds (3rd in TTT). So he's hardly shirking.

I don't why you'd want top racers in longer racers just so you can see them at a lower standard than usual.

And as you say it's a team sport. So why would a team with a £22m annual budget throw away their entire season plans to go chasing £250k?

ugo.santalucia

RichN95 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's a team sport innit? Seeing Froome racing hard for one week at the Tour (5 mountain stages + 2 TT) and a couple of stages at the Romandy and Dauphine and looking at stats for the rest of the 365 is a bit taking it easy, me thinks...

He also did Oman (1st), Catalunya (6th) and was due to do Tirreno Adriatico. And then did Vuelta (2nd).

In 2013 he did Oman (1st), T-A (2nd), Crit Int (1st), Romandie (1st), Dauphine (1st). He also did some races in North America and rode the Worlds (3rd in TTT). So he's hardly shirking.

I don't why you'd want top racers in longer racers just so you can see them at a lower standard than usual.

Lapsus... how can I forget the all important Tour of Oman?

It's in their interest... they have 5-6 years during which they can win a GT, typically... before they are too young and after they are too old. There are exceptions, Contador being one, but this is the average... if they only use 5-6 bullets, they might end up with a rather sub standard cabinet of trophies.

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

Its worth noting that if it ever came to pass, other big teams would front some cash as would the three GTs so the amouny would be significantly higher than 250k. And in any case if only one does all three then he takes the whole million. Its never going to happen but im just saying.

Indeed. I'm sure as someone who works in an industry where variable reward is a big deal, you know that Oleg's offer is daft.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Lapsus... how can I forget the all important Tour of Oman?

It's in their interest... they have 5-6 years during which they can win a GT, typically... before they are too young and after they are too old. There are exceptions, Contador being one, but this is the average... if they only use 5-6 bullets, they might end up with a rather sub standard cabinet of trophies.

If they thought that riding three Grand Tours a year (or even two back-to-back) was the best way of winning one, don't you think they'd do it?

And 5-6 years? That's nonsense. Nibali has already had five years of GT podiums and Froome four - and they're only 29. They've got five good years still. And Quintana has had two years already and he's just 24.

ugo.santalucia

RichN95 wrote:

And 5-6 years? That's nonsense. Nibali has already had five years of GT podiums and Froome four - and they're only 29. They've got five good years still. And Quintana has had two years already and he's just 24.

[/quote]

It's not nonsense. Riders who won GT many years apart are rare as hen's teeth and they are typically the greatest of the sport. IMO Nibali has a couple of seasons to WIN at best... Froome has only won in 2013... don't care about podiums.. there is always a reason why you podium and you don't win. Arguably he was mature to win in 2012, but that cannot be proved, as it is entirely possible that with no Wiggins he was due to collapse under the pressure. He has another 3 years, 4 at best. Quintana, we will see about Quintana, I can't recall a south American who lasted at the top... there might be a reason for that too. Contador has another 2 seasons at best, but he is the only one of the four who is beyond doubt a great of the sport.
After they will still be good, but not as good as the next generation who will be mature and ready to win.