recommend me a cycling coach

Grifteruk

Ive decided to invest in a cycling coach to assist in my training over the next 6-12 months and possibly beyond. Im not worried about peoples views on whether a coach is worthwhile, but instead would welcome any recommendations based on experience. Im looking to complete the haute route next year plus improve in some of races in 2015.

thanks

Alex_Simmons/RST

I can definitely recommend my colleagues at RST Sport:
http://www.rstsport.com/

Drop Ric a line, I'm sure he or one of the team would be delighted to help out. Ric coached me to many successes over many years.

BenderRodriguez

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

I can definitely recommend my colleagues...

And there I was, thinking that the forum rules ban advertising...

diy

I was genuinely interested in the above and had a click on the link. One thing that was missing from the packages was any indication of time spent with the trainer. Be it 1-2-1 or groups. Or is this a kind of open university/distance learning approach. Its impossible to compare the value without this.

For example if I wanted a package to improve my general fitness and lose weight, I could join a gym and get a PT to come up with a similar plan for about the same cash. Obviously they will just be a school drop out/amateur body builder who thinks Les Mills is the only instructor training you could ever need, but they will still have the key skills to help joe avg. improve. Secondly the layout of the website goes all screwy when you navigate preventing you from seeing the pages.

You may already have full order books, in which case the above doesn't matter. If not, I'd take a little time to differentiate yourself and fix the flash nav bugs.

ric/rstsport

Hi diy,

Thanks for your reply. I'm just about to go training so will try to respond later on today, or perhaps Alex will while i'm training.

In terms of the qualifications of our coaches - we all have degrees in sport science or related subjects and/or coaching qualifications, and use a evidence based approach.

For the website, we've just upgraded to this new site and i'm *very* disappointed in hearing that it doesn't work for you. Perhaps you could drop me an email or PM so we don't clog up bikeradar's forum about the actual issues and what browser you're using. I can then get on to the web company pronto.

Many thanks for bringing this to my attention

Ric

diy

The issue is a custom scroll (on mouse over) which is not visible, so its not immediately obvious that you have to mouse over to the edge to scroll down. If you have other pages open from other sites or a resized window in the tab the scroll goes completely. Things like the buy now button not working, AUS pricing and shopping cart without products is probably not important given you most likely want people to contact you rather than just buy.

The answers to all my questions were found if I scrolled down, once I closed the browser and loaded the site again. I wasn't questioning your qualifications by the way - I was asking how it works i.e. face to face training or distance learning. Everything is clear once you can get to the bottom of each page. Hence why I posted rather than PMing - Frustratingly for you there is a lot of really good info on there if only you can navigate to it.

ric/rstsport

Thanks for the response. Some of the issues (buy now button & shopping cart) are because we are rolling out those aspects over the next few weeks - they haven't been implemented yet. I'm sorry it's missing those. The pricing for AUS$ occurs either for coaching along with pricing in UK£ or for Training Plans (in AUS$ only). The former is dependent upon where the coach resides (e.g. i coach people worldwide but like to be paid in UK£ as that's where i live!) whereas for the Training Plans these are dealt with strictly by Alex who is in Australia!

We offer remote coaching, but, do allow e.g. video conferencing to chat with our athletes (or the good old fashioned phone!) as well as meeting riders for actual coaching (a while back i did a nice coaching and testing session for a week in Norway).

If you have any other queries i'd be delighted to help. Though it'd probably be more appropriate to do it via PM or email or phone, rather than here!

Thanks for the feedback
Ric

BenderRodriguez

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

...We offer remote coaching, but, do allow e.g. video conferencing to chat with our athletes (or the good old fashioned phone!) as well as meeting riders for actual coaching (a while back i did a nice coaching and testing session for a week in Norway).

If you have any other queries i'd be delighted to help. Though it'd probably be more appropriate to do it via PM or email or phone, rather than here!

Thanks for the feedback
Ric

Nice ad. From the way you are allowed to repeatedly get away with flouting the forum rules one might think you were best pals with the editor, or something. Oh hang on a minute...

matt-h

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

...We offer remote coaching, but, do allow e.g. video conferencing to chat with our athletes (or the good old fashioned phone!) as well as meeting riders for actual coaching (a while back i did a nice coaching and testing session for a week in Norway).

If you have any other queries i'd be delighted to help. Though it'd probably be more appropriate to do it via PM or email or phone, rather than here!

Thanks for the feedback
Ric

Nice ad. From the way you are allowed to repeatedly get away with flouting the forum rules one might think you were best pals with the editor, or something. Oh hang on a minute...

I'm not seeing a problem here.
The OP has requested a coach recommendation.
RST are the only posters to offer services and make a contribution.
Your post adds no benefit or advice to the OP, how about complaining to the moderators or site owners if it bothers you that much, instead of clogging up a thread with moaning

Matt

Dippydog3

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

I can definitely recommend my colleagues at RST Sport:
http://www.rstsport.com/

Drop Ric a line, I'm sure he or one of the team would be delighted to help out. Ric coached me to many successes over many years.

I clicked on the link and sent them an email this morning.

Haven't heard anything yet.

ric/rstsport

hi dippydog,

i've not had any new enquiries today. which link/email did you send it to? I'm really apologetic if something isn't working on the website.

Please drop me an email on ric@rstsport.com (hopefully i'll get it and respond pronto)

falcon66

Ric, do you have any plans to do cyclocross or xc training plans ?

ric/rstsport

We do coaching for those sports, but no Training Plans at the moment.

dzp1

There are very good one man and smaller group coaches who charge less for the same attention level.

e.g.

Richard Simmonds
Adrian Timmis
John Morgan
Dan Bill at RPC http://www.rpc-cyclecoach.co.uk/aboutus/
Auriel Forrester
Trainsharp
Joe Beer

All googleable if you want to find them. Some of them do triathlon, some do road, some only do timetrialling. Read their websites first

Still from reading their posts RST have shown a good understanding of how to implement the more recent knowledge gained from physiology research etc and have kicked out some old school ideas eg as laid out by Joe Friel. So if I could afford rst I'd give it a go, otherwise I'd try some of the others.

Actually for me I'm happy just getting it wrong and making the same old training mistakes time and time again without a coach At least I can ride my bike whenever I feel like it, and I don't have to ride it when I don't want to !!!

diy

What is the difference between coaching and training?

dzp1

diy wrote:

What is the difference between coaching and training?

I think he was referring to training plans, which like off the shelf plans adjusted to your ftp. Very limited contact with the coach after getting the plan.

Coaching is specific to you and you get regular contact with the coach.

ric/rstsport

dzp1 wrote:

There are very good one man and smaller group coaches who charge less for the same attention level.

e.g.

Richard Simmonds
Adrian Timmis
John Morgan
Dan Bill at RPC http://www.rpc-cyclecoach.co.uk/aboutus/
Auriel Forrester
Trainsharp
Joe Beer

All googleable if you want to find them. Some of them do triathlon, some do road, some only do timetrialling. Read their websites first

Still from reading their posts RST have shown a good understanding of how to implement the more recent knowledge gained from physiology research etc and have kicked out some old school ideas eg as laid out by Joe Friel. So if I could afford rst I'd give it a go, otherwise I'd try some of the others.

Actually for me I'm happy just getting it wrong and making the same old training mistakes time and time again without a coach At least I can ride my bike whenever I feel like it, and I don't have to ride it when I don't want to !!!

Of course, there are other coaching companies available who provide coaching at higher and lower prices than we do, just as there are in any other business. We charge what we feel is a fair price for the highest levels of coaching reflecting that we coach to a very high standard (e.g., we've coached world-class riders around the world where we've been better able to coach them than say there national governing body. We've also been recommended by people who work for the English Institute of Sport).

We've been one of the leading companies in both coaching with power and coaching remotely since 1998. i remember starting with dial up internet!!!

There are a list of other coaching companies here http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/coaching-14-w.asp and others should you do a google (etc) search on cycle coaching. (We also do triathlon coaching).

You can ride your bike 'whenever' if you're coached by us. You (the athlete) sets the training time availability. Of course if you rarely go riding you're unlikely to improve your fitness, but for the people we coach more than 98% of our athletes meet or exceed their goals.

Ric

ric/rstsport

dzp1 wrote:

diy wrote:

What is the difference between coaching and training?

I think he was referring to training plans, which like off the shelf plans adjusted to your ftp. Very limited contact with the coach after getting the plan.

Coaching is specific to you and you get regular contact with the coach.

That's correct. We wanted to provide some sort of coaching/training for all and so introduced Training Plans which are *customised* to the person buying them (they're not fixed plans). Our coaching is specific to the individual.

Ric

(edited because apparently i can't spell first thing in the morning!)

napoleond

Here's a training plan for free. Tell me how you get on!
Day 1 - Ride bike
Day 2 - Ride bike a little harder
Day 3 - Ride bike a little harder than day 2

---

Day 62 - Try and ride bike a little harder than day 61.
Day 63 - visit Docs due to chronic adrenal fatigue

imposter2.0

diy wrote:

What is the difference between coaching and training?

A coach coaches you while you are training. Coaches coach - 'athletes' train.

DeVlaeminck

diy wrote:

What is the difference between coaching and training?

About £50 a month

BenderRodriguez

I wonder, are those who use coaching services actually more successful than they otherwise would have been without coaching and, if they are, is that success actually due to the quality of the advice they received? To assume that this must be the case is actually an error of reasoning.

Perhaps, having paid a lot of money for coaching advice, some people are simply more likely to train harder because they have faith in what they are doing, or because they don't want to waste their 'investment'. It could be that the actual details of the programme they follow are of no greater benefit to them than a very different programme would be, and it might even be counter-productive. Perhaps the real difference is that those who seek out coaches have greater faith in their ability to succeed, can afford to buy themselves anything that might give them an advantage, or are simply more motivated to succeed than those who don't?

Rolf Dobelli, in his book on critical thinking The Art of Thinking Clearly, makes the following observations in response to those who suggest that the success of their customers is 'proof' of the quality of the services they offer.

DOES HARVARD MAKE YOU SMARTER?
Swimmer’s Body Illusion

As essayist and trader Nassim Taleb resolved to do something about the stubborn extra pounds he’d be carrying, he contemplated taking up various sports. However, joggers seemed scrawny and unhappy, and bodybuilders looked broad and stupid, and tennis players? Oh, so upper-middle class!

Swimmers, though, appealed to him with their well-built, streamlined bodies. He decided to sign up at his local swimming pool and to train hard twice a week. A short while later, he realised that he had succumbed to an illusion.

Professional swimmers don’t have perfect bodies because they train extensively. Rather, they are good swimmers because of their physiques. How their bodies are designed is a factor for selection and not the result of their activities. Similarly, female models advertise cosmetics and thus, many female consumers believe that these products make you beautiful. But it is not the cosmetics that make these women model-like. Quite simply, the models are born attractive and only for this reason are they candidates for cosmetics advertising. As with the swimmers’ bodies, beauty is a factor for selection and not the result.

Whenever we confuse selection factors with results, we fall prey to what Taleb calls the swimmer’s body illusion. Without this illusion, half of advertising campaigns would not work. But this bias has to do with more than just the pursuit of chiselled cheekbones and chests. For example, Harvard has the reputation of being a top university. Many highly successful people have studied there. Does this mean that Harvard is a good school? We don’t know. Perhaps the school is terrible, and it simply recruits the brightest students around. I experienced this phenomenon at the University of St Gallen in Switzerland. It is said to be one of the top ten business schools in Europe, but the lessons I received (although note that this was twenty-five years ago) were mediocre. Nevertheless, many of its graduates were successful. The reason behind this is unknown – perhaps it was due to the climate in the narrow valley or even the cafeteria food. Most probable, however, is the rigorous selection.

All over the world, MBA schools lure candidates with statistics regarding future income. This simple calculation is supposed to show that the horrendously high tuition fees pay for themselves after a short period of time. Many prospective students fall for this approach. I am not implying that the schools doctor the statistics, but still their statements must not be swallowed wholesale. Why? Because those who pursue an MBA are different from those who do not. The income gap between these groups stems from a multitude of reasons that have nothing to do with the MBA degree itself. Once again we see the swimmer’s body illusion at work: the factor for selection confused with the result.

diy

Hmm interesting. So training is following a structure set out which may be tuned to the individual. Coaching is help and support to achieve the goal of the training objective. Its interesting because in other forms of education, instructors train, and coaches advise and guide. Here neither is in close proximity, so the definition seems blurred.

It would be a fascinating personal injury negligence claim if ever an injury occurred given the proximity and the roles.

imposter2.0

diy wrote:

Hmm interesting. So training is following a structure set out which may be tuned to the individual. Coaching is help and support to achieve the goal of the training objective. Its interesting because in other forms of education, instructors train, and coaches advise and guide. Here neither is in close proximity, so the definition seems blurred.

It would be a fascinating personal injury negligence claim if ever an injury occurred given the proximity and the roles.

Not entirely sure where you are coming from as I don't see any blurring at all. A coach is someone who provides you with 'expert' advice on how & when to train. It's a pretty clear role, I would have thought. You undertake any training at your own risk anyway, so I don't see where personal injury or negligence issues come into it.

Instructor-led training (ie, training to be a pilot, or to use an accounts package, etc) is a considerably different definition of 'training' than training to improve 'physical performance'. Seems fairly obvious to be pointing that out..

BenderRodriguez

I do think that the 'proximity' issue is significant. Some might be looking for a pretty personal relationship with their coach on a one-to-one basis. To give a cliched example, something like the one portrayed in the film The Games, in which Stanley Baker tries to get Michael Crawford to believe that he can run the first-ever sub 2-hour marathon. (Don't laugh, it's not a bad film, if you can find a copy, and Crawford is very convincing in his role.) For this to work I would have thought that it is pretty essential that your coach is 'just around the corner' and that you are compatible, personality-wise.

Naturally, just handing out training programs, whilst still being called 'coaching', is not quite the same thing.

I must admit to being somewhat dubious about the value of this sort of 'coaching', given that any ready-made programme, no matter how much it is 'personalised', will be based on general principles that may be of limited relevance to any given individual. Sure, the 'client' might still improve, but they might well have improved just as much if they simply increased their work load or did something different to what they had become used to.

Any given individual will respond differently to the training loads placed upon them. Some will be able to cope with more volume or more intensity than others. Some will recover faster or more slowly. Some will thrive on miles and others on 'sweetspot', or MLSS work or intervals. Ultimately, what works best for a given individual can only be found through a period of self-exploration, and any 'off the shelf' programme is unlikely to, in fact cannot, embody such knowledge a priori.

Next, when it comes to implementing a programme, whatever is written in the schedule needs to take second place to just how you feel that day and right then. Again, you need to know yourself. For example, just to look at the issue of fatigue, this is what Michael Hutchinson wrote in his book Faster:

At what might seem like an absurdly basic level, you have to be able to tell when you're too tired. By any normal measure most athletes are very tired a lot of the time, and the edge that slips you into 'too tired' is almost imperceptible. Tired isn't even a single feeling - fatigue comes in 100 varieties, all of which you'll learn to analyse for signs of danger. Nor does it help that the whole idea of 'too tired' moves depending on where in the training cycle you are. What's might count as just 'quite tired' six weeks before a major event would be 'much, much too tired' a week before.

Before the London Paralympics Dame Sarah Story used a block of training in an altitude chamber. This wasn't something she'd done before. 'I had to do with almost by ear' she said, 'You put your face close to the mirror every day and ask yourself how you feel, how you really feel. Good? Bad? Okay? Is that a twinge or am I imagining it. But it's no different to usual. Training is never the same twice - what was fine one session might be too much the next. You always have to ask yourself how you feel. Always.'

Equally you'll have to know when things are good. Dowsett's first big pro win was on the time trial stage at the end of the Tour of Britain in 2011: 'I'd written off the TT because the week before had been so hard. But when I stood up out of bed in the morning I knew my legs were good. I knew the day would be OK, so come the race I made sure I got everything out.

No one can teach in this ability to read your own body. It only comes with experience. A coach can help, they can ask questions and they can try either to make you play safe or perhaps push you to go a bit deeper if they think you should be able to cope, but they can't know how it feels from the inside.

diy

To me its like calling NHS Direct or going to see your doctor. It all depends on what you need, but there is a real limit to what can be done remotely. Having said that I'm sure an awful lot of value can be gained without face to face coaching/training.

Alex_Simmons/RST

We work with remote clients all the time, indeed it's necessary when working with any elite world class athlete as they can and do travel a lot and a coach isn't omnipresent. If you don't have the systems, processes, experience and skills to manage such a relationship remotely, then it may well not work as well as it might.

Of course there are elements of coaching and some personalities that are best served by eye-balling the athlete in person, no one disputes that.

The issue is really whether and/or how much that type of coaching does any individual require. We help make that assessment, and at times we'll suggest a local coach if that makes more sense for them, or we feel the nature of the support required is best served in that manner. e.g. say a rider's most important requirement is for skills work to learn how to ride a bike safely in a particular situation. That's best done 1-1 in person (and we do do 1-1 in person work as well).

There are no doubt other examples, but they are all on a spectrum, and often many people don't have a lot of need at that end of the coaching spectrum, or some of those things can be done with the aid of others. Getting coaching support need not be an exclusive arrangement. I've worked with riders that have various local support people to assist with different things.

Having helped numerous athletes of various levels around the world achieve things they hadn't thought they could before (set world records, make national teams, win world and national titles, or simply to step up some notches in their local racing) and having never met some of them in person I think shows what's possible. Would I love to be able to eyeball them more regularly at times? Sure. Have I made an effort to travel across the world to see them? Yes, where it was affordable and practical and worthwhile. But it's amazing how well you can assess someone with communication technology aids today, but you also need to understand the limitations of such communication as well.

We are professionals and treat such things professionally and identify and use professional solutions to help us coach. We've done so for a very long time and have applied many innovations to the task along the way. It's not a hobby for us.

I do recommend interviewing your prospective coach. It helps to gain a sense of how they work in practice and whether that will suit your individual needs.

BenderRodriguez

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

We are professionals... It's not a hobby for us.

In other words, "We are in it for the money". As Michael Hutchinson puts it...

The coaching profession claims there are several central tenets to training theory. The very first one in the process is ‘set some targets’ so that you have some objective means of measuring success or, more likely, failure.

(To be accurate, this is the first tenet after ‘find a coach’ and ‘give that coach your credit card details’).

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... gets-22352

diy

To be fair a thorough explanation of the ethos behind the business. But doing something for a hobby vs doing it full time is no indicator of quality. A professional is someone who chooses to do it for a living.

It is certainly a delivery model that has scale, which is the primary problem for any professional services business. However, they could take a business tip from facebook before going down the friends reunited route to money. In the modern world there are many ways to make money from services that don't necessarily mean charging the end consumer a fee.

mamba80

I share BR cynicism but I have also known riders make big improvements using a coach.... some people, in whatever walk of life, need their hands held in whatever they do, having someone to support you even via email or a telephone call, can make a difference.
also, for the price of a set of decent wheels, you ll find out if its for you.

Back to the OP, Mark Dolan of http://www.epic-coaching.com/ based nr Glastonbury, has a good local rep.

Alex_Simmons/RST

BenderRodriguez wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

We are professionals... It's not a hobby for us.

In other words, "We are in it for the money". As Michael Hutchinson puts it...

The coaching profession claims there are several central tenets to training theory. The very first one in the process is ‘set some targets’ so that you have some objective means of measuring success or, more likely, failure.

(To be accurate, this is the first tenet after ‘find a coach’ and ‘give that coach your credit card details’).

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... gets-22352

Everyone has their views, that's fine. I do see a distinction between professional (earning an income) and professionalism (how you go about what you do).

Yes I make a living from what I do. What's wrong with that? There are many forms of professional and personal services. It is by far the largest sector of the economies of most western economies. I'm good at it, enjoy it, and am privileged to have good people around the world willing to work with me.

In any case, this part of discussion is off topic and not really aiding the OP, who has decided they'd like some coaching assistance and want some suggestions on that. Hopefully they have enough to go on.