Hybrids v Road 'Racing' bikes.....
Comments
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thegibdog wrote:Being on the drops on a road bike gives you a secure hand position whilst having access to the brakes. On a flat barred bike being on the bar ends would give the best position for handling at speed but wouldn't give easy access to the brakes, whilst covering the brakes wouldn't be great for handling. Neither hand position would be as secure as being on the drops.
Oh come on, no-one in their right minds is likely to be on the 'bar ends' on a descent now are they ???
Listen, I've plummeted down mountains in the Alps, both on-road, and off-road, and nearly always with at least 2 fingers covering my brake, if not applying the brake, all whilst with a firm grip on the bars, so there is no way you're gonna tell me that you have 'better control' on the drops of a road bar !!
Thats just laughable. Get a grip.
"It sounds like you need to try out a road bike to appreciate the benefits, you might find that your bike is a bigger factor in your slow descending than you realise."
On the contrary, it sounds to me that its you that need to try out a Hybrid or Mountain Bike, with Flat/Riser bars, to fully appreciate the control and braking benefits. There is just no comparison.apreading wrote:I still hold to the assertion that unless you are at a very high level where marginal aero gains are important, you will not be disadvantaged by a road bike with flat bars (as opposed to a hybrid which is a very broad spectrum). Its merely a case of what feels best to you - almost like any other factor in bike fit, as much as the other aspects of geometry etc.
Amen to that.0 -
Please please please buy the Sirrus Zak. I think it will be a match made in heaven ;-)
You have argued the point too much not to buy it now anyway haven't you?
And you are right, its probably not that different to a Roubaix (you said it, not me).
Why do you keep going on about control and braking benefits?
Do you think we all have control and braking deficiencies?
MTB's need flat bars, road bikes do not.
The clue to which bike to get is in the name Long ROAD rides = ROAD bike. Hybrid = COMPROMISE.
Have fun 'hugging' the wind on your Alpine descents.
Do you think your Sirrus will be good for TT's too?
Generations of riders and pro teams are wrong. Its all a big conspiracy.
Eddy Merckx is dead.........Long live Zak3737
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Carbonator wrote:Please please buy the Sirrus Zak. I think it will be a match made in heaven ;-)
You have argued the point too much not to buy it now anyway haven't you?
And you are right, its probably not that different to a Roubaix (you said it, not me).
Why do you keep going on about control and braking benefits?
Do you think we all have control and braking deficiencies?
MTB's need flat bars, road bikes do not. (- perhaps because the straight bars offer 'more' control & braking performance do you think ......?)
The clue to which bike to get is in the name 'ROAD bike'.
Have fun 'hugging' the wind on your Alpine descents.(I didnt say I'd ever needed to ?.....but have clocked 48.9 on a MTB ;-) )
Do you think your Sirrus will be good for TT's too? (sarcasm doesnt suit you.......)
Lots of people taking offence here it seems......but all I'm saying is, for a lot of the riding I see people doing on a sunday morning, just booling along for 20, 30 or 40 miles, or possibly more, then something like that Sirrus Carbon would perhaps be 'equally' adept at covering the mileage.
Ok, for those of you that work your @ss off and push some ridiculous averages, as I'm sure you do, then getting down on the drops will be better and a help, I understand.
But every rider I see 'on the drops' so far, i see 7/8 on the hoods or tops, so in reality, straight or drops would be equally efficient.
Its just debate fella's, .....its just debate, I arent trying to ridicule the Road Biking genre, just throwing an opinion or idea into the mix, which at least one other seems to agree with me about ! 8)0 -
Don't get ahead of yourself. Its not a debate lol.
So you are now slagging off 7 out of the 8 fellow riders you see, yet wonder why you are getting grief on here.
You are correct though. Flat bars are better for pootling around. Is that what you are planning on doing? Then get a hybrid (which you are going to do even if you wanted a road bike).
There was no need to bring road bikes into it at all then :roll:0 -
Please let us all know when you have the Sirrus (photo to prove please).
Why are you proud of doing nearly 50 (mph?) but have no desire to be on a road bike and go faster?0 -
I would not say there's much in it, if you're looking at otherwise similar equipment level.
Comparing the Sirrus Pro Carbon Disc with the Roubaix SL4 Comp Disc, I can see that the wheelbase and top-tube lengths are much longer on the hybrid (over 2 inches) which will significantly aid braking due to the CoG being further back from the front wheel. I guess this is a common design and I imagine you also get longer chainstays on MTB frames because stability is so much more important...I haven't checked though.
The term 'hybrid' more typically cover a wide range of models; I'd say the bikes you're looking at are all in the 'fast road' category, so they would be disadvantaged on bridleways and so on compared to what many would call a 'traditional' hybrid.
If you really don't think you're going to use the drops, then you're right; there's no point. Personally, if it's flat and/or windy, I am happy to ride for long periods in the drops; I don't think I would want to tuck up on a flat bar for very long, it would feel too cramped.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
Carbonator wrote:Please let us all know when you have the Sirrus (photo to prove please).
Why are you proud of doing nearly 50 (mph?) but have no desire to be on a road bike and go faster?
I'm not, I was younger, and more stupid. Mentioned only to illustrate that I know the value of control and braking performance !
And for both, I know which I'd rather have.
That said, I arent gonna be throwing myself down Mountain sides on a Road bike, and if I do, and have Road Bars, I'll definitely be going slower......0 -
Make your mind up!
Mate, we all know the advantages of flat bars and superior braking off road.
You were talking about on road.
So which is it? Do you think flat or drop bars are better for road use?0 -
Well said Des, welcome to the non-debate......or at least Carbonator isnt 'debating' 8)
The Sirrus Expert Carbon Disc can hardly be called a 'Hybrid' in reality, sure it may be viewed as such, but its a Road Bike with flat bars and slightly higher volume tyres.
I just remain convinced, that for 'most' of us, if we chose, something like that would be equally quick and comfortable for our riding, but with more control and braking performance.
Of course, Roadies will always want to look like Roadies, and would view it as heracy to ride a flat bar.....
All that said, I havent decided, I may yet get the Roubaix 0 -
Carbonator wrote:Make your mind up!
Mate, we all know the advantages of flat bars and superior braking off road.
You were talking about on road.
So which is it? Do you think flat or drop bars are better for road use?
Are you following this thread ???
I'm suggesting that for a lot of us, it perhaps wouldnt make a difference......
Ps - my 48.9 was 'on road, on a MTB, in the Alps. And yes, it was scary. And No, I wont do it again. 8)0 -
Ignoring all the arguing, I'd just like to add my experience to the mix. I ride my road bikes for fun, and I commute to work on a flat bar hybrid. The hybrid is great for pootling to and from work, and it's perfectly set up as a commuter with lights, guards etc. However, despite it being comfortable on short distance rides, anything over 7 miles makes my hands and wrists hurt. I'm not saying at all that it would do that for all people, but it does for me. However, I never get any hand or wrist pain on my road bikes over any distance.
I enjoy cycling and find it fun. I'm not saying I couldn't do a 100 mile ride on my work bike, but I would say I wouldn't want to as I wouldn't enjoy it.
If I stand up with my arms by my side, and then bend my arms to bring them up to stomach level, my hands are naturally in the position that they would be in when on the hoods. I have to rotate both wrists 90 degrees to put them into the flat bar position. Some people will be fine with that, but for me, it's uncomfortable over distance.0 -
Drop equal to 2-3km/h gain for the same power imput.
This with the multiple hand position to prevent numbness are biggest selling point of drop bars.
And buying a hybrid bike with deep section wheel and no drop at all is completely absurd. Not to mention the useless inserts on the fork and seatstay.
If your concern is braking power when on the hoods, get a road bike with hydro disk brakes, you can probably lock the wheels with your pinky finger.0 -
Well I for one am going to make a special effort to be nicer to hybrid riders, living with such a crushing sense of insecurity must be dreadful for them.0
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krogort wrote:If your concern is braking power when on the hoods, get a road bike with hydro disk brakes, you can probably lock the wheels with your pinky finger.
You've misunderstood the reason that road bikes cannot stop as quickly as MTBs or hybrids. You never get close to locking up the front wheel. When you're at maximum retardation, you're not limited by the maximum retarding force at the front tyre contact patch; you're limited by not wanting to pitch yourself over the bars.
Hybrids and MTBs can apply greater retarding force because the distance from the front tyre contact patch to the CoG of the bike and rider is greater than it is for a road bike, so all other things being equal, it takes a greater weight transfer (i.e. more retardation) to get the CoG over the front wheel.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
Zak3737 wrote:Carbonator wrote:Make your mind up!
Mate, we all know the advantages of flat bars and superior braking off road.
You were talking about on road.
So which is it? Do you think flat or drop bars are better for road use?
Are you following this thread ???
I'm suggesting that for a lot of us, it perhaps wouldnt make a difference......
Its a sh1t (but amusing) thread, so giving it the attention it deserves.
No, think you were saying it would be better.
You brought it up and argued with people about it to the point someone swore at you.
So which are you getting then if it makes no difference to you?0 -
The suspense is killing me!0
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Zak3737 wrote:
The Sirrus Expert Carbon Disc can hardly be called a 'Hybrid' in reality, sure it may be viewed as such, but its a Road Bike with flat bars and slightly higher volume tyres.
Which is also known as a 'hybrid'... :roll:0 -
Anyone remember cannondaleboss?0
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I have a variety of MTB and road bikes. Only the 29er MTB come close to matching a road bike for speed close but not that close. There is a good 2-3mph average in it on the road and it not the gearing but I keep up 17mph average on an MTB for long. Fitting narrower tyres and calling it a hybrid would not make much of difference, you have to see the XC tyre I use to understand. An MTB on decents does not get to the same speed either. A MTB or hybrid if it has good tyres and approiate geometry can handle very well on the road. That the thing those the more you make it like a road bike the more it deserves drop bars and then call it a road bike. Road bike need not have skinny tyres and a large saddle to handle bar drop. Road bikes can use wide 27mm or 28mm tyres and have a long head tube. I have a bike like that, an 1992 Trek 2300 but I put the drop bars low down as I like a fair bit of saddle to handle bar drop but that personal preference.
Hybrids offically exist so you can ride on the road and use towpaths and the like with ease. In reality though they often get bought by people who are suspious of drop bars, they are bought sometimes by people who have road bikes but need a flat bar bike for a variety of reason. There is nothing wrong with a hybrid but do not expect it to behave like a road bike. Road bikes come in many different forms, race bikes, touring bikes, audax or sportive bikes (sportive bikes are basically audax bikes with the mudguard eyelets and a number of other features shared with race bikes) .... all are as different to each other as a "road bike" is to have a "hybrid". Road bikes are for the road in my view and for sport riding but they will do other duties. Hybrids make good commutors and MTB's come in so many different flavours it is almost confusing, if your are not in the scene.
So Hybrids, vs road racing bikes is misguided title as it assumes they are comparable, they are not not even close. There are even difference kinds of hybrids, sport hybrids, commuting hybrids, cheap hybrids.... The specialised Roubiax is not even a road race bike, it is a sportive bike and sportives are not road races, not even close. A sportive bike is often caracterised by a longer headtube than a race bike, it may have a more relaxed headtube and seat tube angle but not always. The forks on a sportive bike should also have more rake to improve stability but again this is not always the case.
so the OP in my view is comparing apples and tomatoes and trying to decide which is best eat by doing himself down by saying he is not a gormet chef and won't notice the difference. He will notice the difference if he uses them for what they are intended. If you use a road bike for commuting you might prefer a hybrid, I would if I commuted in a town or city but I don't.
Also you get used to road bike brakes, they stop you quite well (I have bike with every kind of braking system to compare) unless they are crap ones, many of those about unfortunatley.
So try both and see which one you like the most it really is that simple.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Think its gonna be like those tw4ts that come on here slagging off Garmins............. then buy a Garmin :roll:0
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I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited to find out what he's going to choose, it's like waiting for Christmas!!!!0
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I would love it to be the Sirrus, but my money is on the Roubaix.
At least it will be a Specialized, and I am guessing it will be too big 8)0 -
Ah but think how proud he'll be!
...His little face all round and shiny, pedalling off into the distance, flat bars glinting in the evening sun...0 -
Unless the Sirrus has changed significantly since I test rode them a couple of years ago, they are way to 'sit up and beg' and more a cruiser than a bike for going fast. That is why I chose the Boardman Hybrid, which was a tossup with the Whyte Portobello as they were both much more racy.
Although the Roubaix is a relaxed road bike, with a more 'sportive' geometry, it is not the cruiser that the Sirrus is.
They are in no way comparable in my mind - and just looking at the frame shape suggests the Sirrus is still as upright as before. Yes, you can adjust it lots but it cannot lose this fundamental character.
And I think flat bar road bikes have longer top tubes etc to make up for the forward geometry that the drop bars themselves contribute, which flat bars dont have.
Hybrids often have less toe overlap and more tyre clearance also, which is a good thing in my book, but not a given and varies from model to model.
I would consider the Sirrus a Hybrid, whereas the Boardman is more akin to a 'sportive' road bike or CX bike with flat bars.
I am seeing a glut of 'high end' carbon flat bar road bikes from the like of Planet X and similar but they seem to just put flat bars on a road disc frame, which isnt right - they need different geometry.0 -
You appear to have all the answers. Go for it!Zak3737 wrote:Well said Des, welcome to the non-debate......or at least Carbonator isnt 'debating' 8)
The Sirrus Expert Carbon Disc can hardly be called a 'Hybrid' in reality, sure it may be viewed as such, but its a Road Bike with flat bars and slightly higher volume tyres.
I just remain convinced, that for 'most' of us, if we chose, something like that would be equally quick and comfortable for our riding, but with more control and braking performance.
Of course, Roadies will always want to look like Roadies, and would view it as heracy to ride a flat bar.....
All that said, I havent decided, I may yet get the RoubaixThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Have you actually ridden both bikes? I am sure that you will find them TOTALLY different, aside from the bar difference. Debating between them without riding them is just madness - get out there and try.0
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Dont want to get into a pointless argument about drops/hoods/flats, braking and control...
However, have a roubaix comp. mine is 2011 spec with 105 groupset. It is an awesome beast, i love it to bits, have done 16k on it in about two years, it goes out most days rain or shine, easy to maintain, very comfy and nippy when it needs to be. I have no feeling of what if, or should i have got this instead..
But your choice and your money at the end of the day...0 -
This was my original post.......Zak3737 wrote:I'm still sat here, wrestling with my conciense as to whether to go buy that new Roubaix or not, after testing it the other day, and finding out just how comfortable a setup it is.
Yes, I'm sure there are other equally comfortable Sportive bikes, but the Robaix is renowned after all.
However, on browsing the Spesh site (again), I found myself also checking out the 2015 'Sirrus' models, - I've got a Sirrus which I used for commuting a few years ago, complete with Cable Discs, but these days, my son has it up at Uni with him, and its been a great bike, still is in fact, we've just had it overhauled and new tryes and it bools along very nicely indeeed, even on 28c tyres etc etc.
The new 2015 Sirris range is mighty impressive, with the top of the range, the 'Expert Carbon Disc', as well as a full Carbon Frame and Zertz inserts, is also equipped with 105 gears etc, Hydraulic Discs, etc etc......very very nice indeed.
Which all begs the question, apart from not conforming with the 'architypal Roadie look' and drop bars, why do not more of us that want to ride 'comfortably', opt for something like the Sirrus ?
Has to be more comfortable and stable/controllable with normal bars and standard brake levers, - as a previous very experience Mountain Biker, I know all too well how good stopping is on standard bars & discs.
I guess the 30c tyres fitted on it as standard 'might' be a smidge large, but thats easily solved, and I'd hazard a guess that most of us 'normal' mortals would not only be as quick on it as we would be on any drop-bar 'Racer', - where lets be honest, a lot of us never use the drops.
No, I'm not trolling........just wondering......
If anyone can tell me where I say that the Sirrus would be 'better', I'd appreciate you pointing it out pls.
I merely asked, after observations as to how many social riders use the 'tops', or 'hoods', why more of us dont just use flat bars.......
Its quite laughable how many of you have clearly taken great offence at the mere suggestion......it really is.0 -
Why not get it printed out and laminated, then you can give it to anyone who looks at your bike choice in a questioning way?
What you getting then?0
