Campag/Shimano.

drlodge

What "servicing" does Campag need? Cable replacement is about it, and that's pretty straight forward.

Bar Shaker

Rolf F wrote:

Have Shimano worked out how to do multiple downshifts yet?

Have Campag worked out how to shift from the drops yet?

drlodge

Bar Shaker wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Have Shimano worked out how to do multiple downshifts yet?

Have Campag worked out how to shift from the drops yet?

Er yes, just use the lever or thumb shifts that are easily reachable.

thegreatdivide

Bar Shaker wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Have Shimano worked out how to do multiple downshifts yet?

Have Campag worked out how to shift from the drops yet?

It's easy to shift from the drops using Campagnolo - but in all honestly how many times do you need to change from the drops on an average ride?

I've got wee hands and can shift easily from all bar angles, inluding shifting down using my little finger while my hands are on the on the bar tops. Get the right bars with the right drop/reach and position the shifers correctly. No bother at all.

menthel

Bar Shaker wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Have Shimano worked out how to do multiple downshifts yet?

Have Campag worked out how to shift from the drops yet?

I manage this quite easily on both my veloce and sora equipped bikes!

twgh

DeVlaeminck wrote:

twgh wrote:

Had both - went Dura Ace and would never ever ever go back. Functionally they are both great but Shimano is 1/2 the price and imo Dura Ace is much better looking.

Ask yourself this....do you have a local bike shop that is able to properly service campag?

What ? Anyone that can't work on Campag isn't a bike mechanic I'd want anywhere near my bike anyway - it's hardly high end engineering to work on a bike.

To be clear all I meant is that a lot of LBS's in the UK stock shimano parts / tools as standard with campag being special order.

twgh

This is turning into a silly campy v shimano debate.

If I were advising anyone on what gruppo to get it would be as follows:


spending less than £500 - Ultegra 6800
spending less than £1000 - Dura Ace or Chorus (I would advise people to get DA tho!)
spending more than £1000 - get whatever you fancy and like the most

twgh

This is turning into a silly campy v shimano debate.

If I were advising anyone on what gruppo to get it would be as follows:


spending less than £500 - Ultegra 6800
spending less than £1000 - Dura Ace or Chorus (I would advise people to get DA tho!)
spending more than £1000 - get whatever you fancy and like the most

DeVlaeminck

Just to respond to a point over the page - you can get Chorus 11 for £770 at Ribble, that's the first link that comes up on google. DuraAce is a grand at the same shop. So it's questionable to say that you can get DuraAce for the price of chorus.

edit - I see you are now claiming Shimano is half the price - I'd rather have Chorus than Dura Ace and Chorus is cheaper.

menthel

twgh wrote:

This is turning into a silly campy v shimano debate.

If I were advising anyone on what gruppo to get it would be as follows:


spending less than £500 - Ultegra 6800
spending less than £1000 - Dura Ace or Chorus (I would advise people to get DA tho!)
spending more than £1000 - get whatever you fancy and like the most

I would advise people to try out the different groupsets and see which one suits them. That would be much better advice. The shapes of the hoods etc are much more important than the actual shifting as that will influence comfort which is probably most important. All groupsets, from whatever the cheapest shimano sell up to DA, red and Super Record will shift correctly if set up properly.

Personally I prefer the feel of Campagnolo hoods but happily use Shimano on my commuting bike as that is what it came with.

drlodge

menthel wrote:

I would advise people to try out the different groupsets and see which one suits them. That would be much better advice. The shapes of the hoods etc are much more important than the actual shifting as that will influence comfort which is probably most important. All groupsets, from whatever the cheapest shimano sell up to DA, red and Super Record will shift correctly if set up properly.

Personally I prefer the feel of Campagnolo hoods but happily use Shimano on my commuting bike as that is what it came with.

+1 All groupsets "work", the most important factor is the feel of the hoods IMO. I had Sora 8 speed shifters and didn't get on with the feel (the thumb lever got in the way) , changed them for 10 speed Veloce (Shimergo setup) which feel just like my Super record shifters. Those cheap Sora shifters with a 7 speed cassette shifted perfectly.

twgh

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Just to respond to a point over the page - you can get Chorus 11 for £770 at Ribble, that's the first link that comes up on google. DuraAce is a grand at the same shop. So it's questionable to say that you can get DuraAce for the price of chorus.

edit - I see you are now claiming Shimano is half the price - I'd rather have Chorus than Dura Ace and Chorus is cheaper.

If you shop around, like I did, I got DA9000 for £880. It really comes down to personal preference and mine, at the moment, is Shimano. Any of Ultegra, DA, Chorus, Record will be great though (I can only speak for DA and Chorus though).

DeVlaeminck

Yes if you shop around maybe you could get Chorus cheaper too - I just find a lot of Shimano users have this idea that Campag is way more expensive - it isn't . Nothing against people using Shimano, I've used it myself and would use it again but Campag isn't just a choice for people taken in by the idea of Italian artisans working in sheds.

twgh

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Yes if you shop around maybe you could get Chorus cheaper too - I just find a lot of Shimano users have this idea that Campag is way more expensive - it isn't . Nothing against people using Shimano, I've used it myself and would use it again but Campag isn't just a choice for people taken in by the idea of Italian artisans working in sheds.

Ah but to me that is the allure behind it...!

mfin

Another point is if you're going Campag then get it soon so you don't get limited to having to have that gopping looking new 4 arm chainset.

I think Campag have followed Shimano here, they must have thought "Shimano only make sh1t looking chainsets, perhaps it's about time we should make one too".

Bar Shaker

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Yes if you shop around maybe you could get Chorus cheaper too - I just find a lot of Shimano users have this idea that Campag is way more expensive - it isn't . Nothing against people using Shimano, I've used it myself and would use it again but Campag isn't just a choice for people taken in by the idea of Italian artisans working in sheds.

Or even Romanians working in sheds?

All of the upper end stuff is great to use. For the OP's budget (mid range), Ultegra is a no brainer and an excellent choice, with Force 22 better but slightly out of budget.

twgh

mfin wrote:

Another point is if you're going Campag then get it soon so you don't get limited to having to have that gopping looking new 4 arm chainset.

I think Campag have followed Shimano here, they must have thought "Shimano only make sh1t looking chainsets, perhaps it's about time we should make one too".

The new chainsets are one of the worst looking things ever. I think the Shimano 4 arm ones look fab because they metallic in nature - the campag carbon just doesn't work.

thegreatdivide

twgh wrote:

mfin wrote:

Another point is if you're going Campag then get it soon so you don't get limited to having to have that gopping looking new 4 arm chainset.

I think Campag have followed Shimano here, they must have thought "Shimano only make sh1t looking chainsets, perhaps it's about time we should make one too".

The new chainsets are one of the worst looking things ever. I think the Shimano 4 arm ones look fab because they metallic in nature - the campag carbon just doesn't work.

Have you seen one yet? They look superb in real life.

Calpol

mfin wrote:

Another point is if you're going Campag then get it soon so you don't get limited to having to have that gopping looking new 4 arm chainset.

I think Campag have followed Shimano here, they must have thought "Shimano only make sh1t looking chainsets, perhaps it's about time we should make one too".

Yes but unusually for Campagnolo the crank redesign is to facilitate more flexibility for consumers with regard gearing choice. So it might not look so good but it's a much more flexible system as I understand it.

twgh

thegreatdivide wrote:

twgh wrote:

mfin wrote:

Another point is if you're going Campag then get it soon so you don't get limited to having to have that gopping looking new 4 arm chainset.

I think Campag have followed Shimano here, they must have thought "Shimano only make sh1t looking chainsets, perhaps it's about time we should make one too".

The new chainsets are one of the worst looking things ever. I think the Shimano 4 arm ones look fab because they metallic in nature - the campag carbon just doesn't work.

Have you seen one yet? They look superb in real life.

No and perhaps I will stand corrected when I do!

dennisn

mfin wrote:

Another point is if you're going Campag then get it soon so you don't get limited to having to have that gopping looking new 4 arm chainset.

I think Campag have followed Shimano here, they must have thought "Shimano only make sh1t looking chainsets, perhaps it's about time we should make one too".

It has always seemed to me that Shimano is more function oriented and Campy is more style conscious. Just my opinion.

In any case you had to know that the next step was 4 arm cranks. Since they are new it will take a while for the hard core 5 arm people to accept them, but soon they will be all the rage(if they aren't already).

thegreatdivide

dennisn wrote:

It has always seemed to me that Shimano is more function oriented and Campy is more style conscious. Just my opinion.

In any case you had to know that the next step was 4 arm cranks. Since they are new it will take a while for the hard core 5 arm people to accept them, but soon they will be all the rage(if they aren't already).

I think Shimano is more 'mass produced' while Campagnolo is a bit more 'artisan'. They both shift gears.

I totally agree on the latter. Once you see one you'll realise that it's a stunning bit of design.

styxd

Campagnolo wears in. Shimano wears out. SRAM breaks.

dennisn

styxd wrote:

Campagnolo wears in. Shimano wears out. SRAM breaks.

Had been kind of wondering when someone would bring up that lame statement. :roll:

DeVlaeminck

Am I the only person who likes the new 4 arm Campag crankset - and I've got the ultrashift Chorus on my bike so it's not just me trying to justify a purchase ! I think the new one looks more in keeping with fat tubed carbon bikes. I quite like the current Shimano design too.

rolf_f

dennisn wrote:

It has always seemed to me that Shimano is more function oriented and Campy is more style conscious. Just my opinion

I can't actually see how you come to that conclusion! Look at the Shimano cranksets - all excessively styled. Campag just focus on fairly plain, functional spiders. Look at the shifters. Shimano bung in lots of shiny bits as you go up the range - Campag mainly keep the differences functional and fairly hidden - aside from the material of the levers, a Veloce shifter looks pretty much identical to a Super Record one. Look at the rear mechs - lots of fancy shapes in Shimano - relatively simple, functional shapes for Campag.

Then look at the designs over time - Campag groupsets have, until the latest abomination, had only one significant restyle in a decade. Shimano muck around with the styling seemingly every year.

Campag generally go for form being led by function - with Shimano, the form seems unrelated to the function.

dennisn

Rolf F wrote:

dennisn wrote:

It has always seemed to me that Shimano is more function oriented and Campy is more style conscious. Just my opinion

I can't actually see how you come to that conclusion! Look at the Shimano cranksets - all excessively styled. Campag just focus on fairly plain, functional spiders. Look at the shifters. Shimano bung in lots of shiny bits as you go up the range - Campag mainly keep the differences functional and fairly hidden - aside from the material of the levers, a Veloce shifter looks pretty much identical to a Super Record one. Look at the rear mechs - lots of fancy shapes in Shimano - relatively simple, functional shapes for Campag.

Then look at the designs over time - Campag groupsets have, until the latest abomination, had only one significant restyle in a decade. Shimano muck around with the styling seemingly every year.

Campag generally go for form being led by function - with Shimano, the form seems unrelated to the function.

Well, I wouldn't call Campy "fairly plain". As for Shimanos "form" it seems to me that they have been working towards this 4 arm thing for some time. What with their seeming drive to create a chainring sturdy enough to work well with 4 arms. And it does look, just a bit, like Campy copied it all.

I sort of disagree with you in that I believe that Campy function follows form and style. i.e. make it pretty then make it work. But that may be just me.

rolf_f

I agree entirely that Campag are copying Shimano - the ugly hint of a cross shape on the rear mech is Shimano inspired as well.

But I still don't see where you are coming from. How is Campagnolos 5 arm crankset anything other than about as simple as you can style something. There are no pointless expanses of polished metal fabrications - the crank arm is just one piece as minimalist as it can be. That is why it looks good. It's just ironic that people end up thinking that that is function following styling when it is in reality the reverse. Probably we are so used to looking at overstyled products that we think that they are the norm.

Put it this way - some 1990s to current Shimano and Campagnolo cranksets. Which company appears to be more focussed on style rather than function? (always assuming that both Shimanos and Campags latest offerings are similarly good.....). But it's Campagnolo who haven't changed much - really the current Athena is similar to both Campag and Shimano vintage. The only thing apparent from these pictures is that Shimano want you to buy weirdly shaped, very model specific chainrings whereas Campagnolo allow you to buy rings of any age and off aftermarket manufacturers........

cycleclinic

Just buy what feels best for you, for me that Campagnolo veloce, Athena, record 10 speed, Super record RS and Dura Ace 8 speed. What ever it is though it all changes gear and the power torque thing is only an issue if you want to service the BB yourself. Most turn it over to a shop to do.

Why people get hung up on this I don't know. As for which shimano groupset is the best I find Sora works pretty well makes it hard to justify Tiagra. Ultegra works so well you would only use DA 9000 becuase it looks better. As for SRAM you have to get on with double tap shifting, many people do so it should n't be a problem.

dennisn

Rolf F wrote:

I agree entirely that Campag are copying Shimano - the ugly hint of a cross shape on the rear mech is Shimano inspired as well.

But I still don't see where you are coming from. How is Campagnolos 5 arm crankset anything other than about as simple as you can style something. There are no pointless expanses of polished metal fabrications - the crank arm is just one piece as minimalist as it can be. That is why it looks good. It's just ironic that people end up thinking that that is function following styling when it is in reality the reverse. Probably we are so used to looking at overstyled products that we think that they are the norm.

Put it this way - some 1990s to current Shimano and Campagnolo cranksets. Which company appears to be more focussed on style rather than function? (always assuming that both Shimanos and Campags latest offerings are similarly good.....). But it's Campagnolo who haven't changed much - really the current Athena is similar to both Campag and Shimano vintage. The only thing apparent from these pictures is that Shimano want you to buy weirdly shaped, very model specific chainrings whereas Campagnolo allow you to buy rings of any age and off aftermarket manufacturers........

No big deal. It's just the way I think. In any case it would appear that it will be a while before you can buy aftermarket manufacturers chainrings for either new Campy or new Shimano. Which is most likely exactly what they both want.