Beckham...

VTech

Asking wether he is clever isn't the issue. It doesn't even require anyone to even contemplate wether or not he is clever.

The only data worth using your brain cells is wether you think you could have done better if you were in his position. I would guess in the majority the answer would be NO.
As has been said earlier in this thread, he was first at training, last to leave.

Dedication was paramount in his success, not just skill or brain power.
You can rest assured that luck hasn't fallen on his side, he has worked for every bit of success he has had and when I was at his home in LA (I only mentioned that bit as I know it will grind some readers of this post) it was one of the most mega places I've ever been too. Well earned in every respect in my opinion.

ballysmate

Can't fault the bloke for making the most of modest talent through hard work. Fair play.
He has been lucky to play in an era when people worship at the altar of celebrity.
115 caps? Fwar! fwar!

finchy

I don't think that he had limited ability. He was a bit slow and not the greatest dribbler in the world, but his passing, crossing and dead balls were possibly amongst the finest the world has ever seen. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, though, he did seem to need someone to tell him what to do, and came unstuck once he didn't have that authority figure as a manager.

ballysmate

johnfinch wrote:

I don't think that he had limited ability. He was a bit slow and not the greatest dribbler in the world, but his passing, crossing and dead balls were possibly amongst the finest the world has ever seen. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, though, he did seem to need someone to tell him what to do, and came unstuck once he didn't have that authority figure as a manager.

:?

finchy

Ballysmate wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't think that he had limited ability. He was a bit slow and not the greatest dribbler in the world, but his passing, crossing and dead balls were possibly amongst the finest the world has ever seen. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, though, he did seem to need someone to tell him what to do, and came unstuck once he didn't have that authority figure as a manager.

:?

You can't be good at everything. Paul Scholes was crap at tackling, Zinadine Zidane didn't have much pace, more than one great football has been useless in the air, but their abilities elsewhere made up for it.

ballysmate

johnfinch wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't think that he had limited ability. He was a bit slow and not the greatest dribbler in the world, but his passing, crossing and dead balls were possibly amongst the finest the world has ever seen. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, though, he did seem to need someone to tell him what to do, and came unstuck once he didn't have that authority figure as a manager.

:?

You can't be good at everything. Paul Scholes was crap at tackling, Zinadine Zidane didn't have much pace, more than one great football has been useless in the air, but their abilities elsewhere made up for it.

“He can’t kick with his left foot, he can’t head, he can’t tackle, and he doesn’t score many goals. Apart from that, he’s all right”
George Best on DB

PS Tell me you are not putting him in the same class as Zidane. :shock:

finchy

No, not in the same class as Zidane in terms of skill. Of course not.

ballysmate

I have to admit that I defended Beckham during an argument once.

My mate said that Beckham wasn't fit to clean Gazza's boots.
I said he was.

pinno

"A working class hero is something to be - they hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool".

...and we do have a deep suspicion of intellectuals. Savant's are revered in France, we idolise the stupid.

BTW Pross, I used to sort of respect you

finchy

Anyone remember the Dead Ringers sketch with the telephone call to the Beckham house?

Man's voice: "Hello, is David there?"
Victoria Beckham: "No, sorry, he's out."
(Pause for a few seconds, then the telephone rings again)
Man's voice: "Sorry Vicky, I meant to say 'It's David here'"

jawooga

Ballysmate wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I don't think that he had limited ability. He was a bit slow and not the greatest dribbler in the world, but his passing, crossing and dead balls were possibly amongst the finest the world has ever seen. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread, though, he did seem to need someone to tell him what to do, and came unstuck once he didn't have that authority figure as a manager.

:?

You can't be good at everything. Paul Scholes was crap at tackling, Zinadine Zidane didn't have much pace, more than one great football has been useless in the air, but their abilities elsewhere made up for it.

“He can’t kick with his left foot, he can’t head, he can’t tackle, and he doesn’t score many goals. Apart from that, he’s all right”
George Best on DB

PS Tell me you are not putting him in the same class as Zidane. :shock:

As an aside, Zidane only really fulfilled his potential in his last couple of years at Juve then at Real where he was class. He was massively petulant for most of his career. A bit like a young Roger Federer who had to settle down his petulance before he started dominating.

I also agree, Beckham's free kick skill has been seen before and since- le tissier, baines spring to mind immediately. But in my lifetime, I am sure there's not been a better crosser of the ball. surely that by definition is world class.

morstar

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

VTech

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

Your comment is perfect for the "British way"
It is a way of life in Briton to love the working class hero up until the point where he/she reaches the pinnacles of the chosen path and at that very point he/she is forever doomed. This is why "greatness" isn't as prominent in this country as it once was yet we now chose to blame this on immigrants, lack or opportunity etc etc, the list goes on.

Pross

johnfinch wrote:

Pross wrote:

I'd gladly swap some of my IQ for a chunk of his money and a go on his missus.

Civilisation might collapse tomorrow and his money would be worthless. Then you'd be regretting losing your IQ.

I've got plenty to spare and I'll have still had a go on the 'posh one in the PVC catsuit out of Spice Girls' so fulfilled an ambition from 1996

thegreatdivide

This thread is hilarious. Do you honestly think he is thick/has a low IQ?

ballysmate

thegreatdivide wrote:

This thread is hilarious. Do you honestly think he is thick/has a low IQ?

No idea, but it's good fun.

pesky_jones

He's probably around average intelligence, maybe slightly lower. He was probably einstein at Los Angeles Galaxy

finchy

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

I can't see anyone knocking him for working hard.

VTech

johnfinch wrote:

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

I can't see anyone knocking him for working hard.

Maybe not but there are plenty of under achievers knocking him for being stupid when in fact it should be the opposite way round.

finchy

VTech wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

I can't see anyone knocking him for working hard.

Maybe not but there are plenty of under achievers knocking him for being stupid when in fact it should be the opposite way round.

How do you know who is an underachiever? The OP asked a question. People are giving their opinions. It's the Cake Stop, you probably shouldn't take things that get posted on here too seriously.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

Maybe not but there are plenty of under achievers knocking him for being stupid when in fact it should be the opposite way round.

I have over achieved.
Can I get stuck in?

pesky_jones

johnfinch wrote:

VTech wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

I can't see anyone knocking him for working hard.

Maybe not but there are plenty of under achievers knocking him for being stupid when in fact it should be the opposite way round.

How do you know who is an underachiever? The OP asked a question. People are giving their opinions. It's the Cake Stop, you probably shouldn't take things that get posted on here too seriously.

Nobody bit on his earlier line

morstar

johnfinch wrote:

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

I can't see anyone knocking him for working hard.

Maybe not per se, but, the inference is that he's crap at football when compared to the likes of Best etc. Surely better to maximise your lesser abilities than...

But I'm not getting to that debate (I'm not emotionally invested in it), just what I've read into some of the posts.

VTech

Almost everyone is an under achiever.
Rarely do people achieve what is possible or even close.
Im not knocking anyone, I just find it funny when people under achieve knock those who have done remarkably well in life. Beckham has done a lot more than just made money.
He has been a leading role in the London olympic bid, he has done vast amounts of work for charity yet as has been written on this forum, "he only did it as a tax write off"

Thats the biggest falsehood of them all, the inland revenue do not allow these types of write offs these days. you can give but you can't give to avoid paying revenues.

finchy

I've done a load of charity work. So what?

To be honest, I respect Beckham's work ethic, but that's as far as it goes. When I was playing Sunday league football, I always tried to respect the sport. I didn't argue with the officials, I tried to tackle cleanly and fairly, etc. So when I see kids worshipping the likes of David Beckham, a man who managed to get himself 9 red cards over his career while playing on the wing (and as a winger myself, I can tell you that's no easy task), committed some very nasty fouls which could have seriously injured his fellow professionals and was constantly in referee's faces (at least while he was playing for Man United, I'm not sure about elsewhere), I'm glad that my boy is too young to have grown up in the Beckham-era.

finchy

morstar wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

morstar wrote:

I'm not a football fan but I admire Beckham for the fact that he wasn't the most gifted player but achieved so much through hard work and making the most of what he did have. Find it astonishing that this can be portrayed as a negative.

I can't see anyone knocking him for working hard.

Maybe not per se, but, the inference is that he's crap at football when compared to the likes of Best etc.

I don't think anyone is criticising him like that. It's just a statement of fact. Just about every player has his limits, David Beckham included. Recognising that fact isn't knocking him.

pblakeney

^^^^^^^^^^

He does sound a bit thick though.

VTech

johnfinch wrote:

I've done a load of charity work. So what?

To be honest, I respect Beckham's work ethic, but that's as far as it goes. When I was playing Sunday league football, I always tried to respect the sport. I didn't argue with the officials, I tried to tackle cleanly and fairly, etc. So when I see kids worshipping the likes of David Beckham, a man who managed to get himself 9 red cards over his career while playing on the wing (and as a winger myself, I can tell you that's no easy task), committed some very nasty fouls which could have seriously injured his fellow professionals and was constantly in referee's faces (at least while he was playing for Man United, I'm not sure about elsewhere), I'm glad that my boy is too young to have grown up in the Beckham-era.

And the award for over-the-top reply goes to

So your actually suggesting that he was such a nasty player that you are happy your own kid didn't grow up in his era ?

I would never comment on anyones parenting as its an individual thing but I can say that I would be happy to have let my kids watch Mr B play football.

finchy

VTech wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I've done a load of charity work. So what?

To be honest, I respect Beckham's work ethic, but that's as far as it goes. When I was playing Sunday league football, I always tried to respect the sport. I didn't argue with the officials, I tried to tackle cleanly and fairly, etc. So when I see kids worshipping the likes of David Beckham, a man who managed to get himself 9 red cards over his career while playing on the wing (and as a winger myself, I can tell you that's no easy task), committed some very nasty fouls which could have seriously injured his fellow professionals and was constantly in referee's faces (at least while he was playing for Man United, I'm not sure about elsewhere), I'm glad that my boy is too young to have grown up in the Beckham-era.

And the award for over-the-top reply goes to

So your actually suggesting that he was such a nasty player that you are happy your own kid didn't grow up in his era ?

I would never comment on anyones parenting as its an individual thing but I can say that I would be happy to have let my kids watch Mr B play football.

And the award for taking things at face value goes to...

No, of course I'm not saying that. I just mean that I'm glad my son won't be worshipping at the altar of Beckham. I wouldn't have stopped him watching Beckham play, but I would have had words to the effect that I never, ever want to see him copying that type of behaviour. Wouldn't you do the same?

VTech

johnfinch wrote:

VTech wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

I've done a load of charity work. So what?

To be honest, I respect Beckham's work ethic, but that's as far as it goes. When I was playing Sunday league football, I always tried to respect the sport. I didn't argue with the officials, I tried to tackle cleanly and fairly, etc. So when I see kids worshipping the likes of David Beckham, a man who managed to get himself 9 red cards over his career while playing on the wing (and as a winger myself, I can tell you that's no easy task), committed some very nasty fouls which could have seriously injured his fellow professionals and was constantly in referee's faces (at least while he was playing for Man United, I'm not sure about elsewhere), I'm glad that my boy is too young to have grown up in the Beckham-era.

And the award for over-the-top reply goes to

So your actually suggesting that he was such a nasty player that you are happy your own kid didn't grow up in his era ?

I would never comment on anyones parenting as its an individual thing but I can say that I would be happy to have let my kids watch Mr B play football.

And the award for taking things at face value goes to...

No, of course I'm not saying that. I just mean that I'm glad my son won't be worshipping at the altar of Beckham. I wouldn't have stopped him watching Beckham play, but I would have had words to the effect that I never, ever want to see him copying that type of behaviour. Wouldn't you do the same?

Absolutely, I wouldn't want my kids doing wrong in any walk of life but it is inevitable at some point.
I wouldn't put Beckham down as a negative, sure he has had some issues but regardless of wether you like him or not, he is a wonderful roll model. I remember for many years when he came into GOSH every xmas and gave every kid a present, I think it was Victoria who organised this but it wasn't until around the 7th year that the press found out even though everyone was not asked to publicise it. This wasn't done for praise, it was done because they are good, decent people who realise that although life has thrown them treasures most could only dream about, they are at the same time just normal folk but with the ability to help others.
Their tireless charity work is on another level and so I guess I would love my kids to see them as roll models.