Beckham...
Comments
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Majorly off-topic, and not necessarily to do with the Beckhams but is there the argument that if one only becomes charitable when it is easy for one to do so, then it's not as commendable? I think I might consider someone that has more money than they could possibly need and doesn't give to charity selfish.0
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Pesky Jones wrote:Majorly off-topic, and not necessarily to do with the Beckhams but is there the argument that if one only becomes charitable when it is easy for one to do so, then it's not as commendable? I think I might consider someone that has more money than they could possibly need and doesn't give to charity selfish.
Absolutely. If someone is ONLY charitable because they have everything then that is bad. But is there such a person ?
The charity would prefer the biggest donation so a rich star giving £100k is much better than 20 average people giving £100 !. Wether its liked or not, cash is king.
Its the same with this ice bucket challenge, where people are chucking ice water over their head, its barmy as the only thing worth doing is dropping cash, after all, thats what the charities need.Living MY dream.0 -
Pesky Jones wrote:Majorly off-topic, and not necessarily to do with the Beckhams but is there the argument that if one only becomes charitable when it is easy for one to do so, then it's not as commendable? I think I might consider someone that has more money than they could possibly need and doesn't give to charity selfish.
I think it depends what they're giving. I've done some charity work in the rugby arena, and we've ended up with countless signed shirts, balls, pictures, etc. It all get auctioned off for various causes, or donated directly to the charity. That's easy - a signature, photo, etc. is part of the expectation when you're a pro athlete.
For anyone - Beckham included - to give their time is another thing altogether. I've seen kids light up at the chance to spend 5mins chatting to one of their sporting heroes. Those are the occasions when it really makes a difference, and I Becks seems a pretty good guy in that respect.0 -
VTech wrote:Absolutely, I wouldn't want my kids doing wrong in any walk of life but it is inevitable at some point.
I wouldn't put Beckham down as a negative, sure he has had some issues but regardless of wether you like him or not, he is a wonderful roll model. I remember for many years when he came into GOSH every xmas and gave every kid a present, I think it was Victoria who organised this but it wasn't until around the 7th year that the press found out even though everyone was not asked to publicise it. This wasn't done for praise, it was done because they are good, decent people who realise that although life has thrown them treasures most could only dream about, they are at the same time just normal folk but with the ability to help others.
Their tireless charity work is on another level and so I guess I would love my kids to see them as roll models.
To be honest, I was talking more about his attitude on the football pitch than off. I think that human beings are, in general, pretty decent. I was working in Oxfam following the Boxing Day tsunami, and the generosity was amazing. People were queueing up all day, a line forming in the street, to make donations to our fund. The other international charities in town reported the same response, so I'm well able to believe that people like the Beckhams are willing to do their bit for charity out of pure decency.
I guess I'm more disappointed by Beckham than anything else, because following his red card in the World Cup in 1998, I defended him when he was taking stick from everyone and getting blamed for England's elimination. I was of the opinion that he was still a young man and he had just cracked under pressure and he'd learn from the mistake. So when I saw him at the age of 35, still going into tackles with studs showing, it really wound me up. I can forgive the occasional transgression, but when it's a repeated pattern of behaviour I just lose all patience.0 -
Decent guy occasionally let down by poor decision making. Do i look up to him, no not particularly but i certainly dont have anything against him either. VB was at college in Epsom and i know a couple of people that were in the same class as her, she was apparently hard work but also a perfectionist that would practice again and again until she got it right, whilst not the most talented in the class she was certainly the most persistent.Life isnt like a box of chocolates, its like a bag of pic n mix.0
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simonhead wrote:Decent guy occasionally let down by poor decision making. Do i look up to him, no not particularly but i certainly dont have anything against him either. VB was at college in Epsom and i know a couple of people that were in the same class as her, she was apparently hard work but also a perfectionist that would practice again and again until she got it right, whilst not the most talented in the class she was certainly the most persistent.
Whatttt!!!!
VB not talented?
Hold the front page!
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Ballysmate wrote:simonhead wrote:Decent guy occasionally let down by poor decision making. Do i look up to him, no not particularly but i certainly dont have anything against him either. VB was at college in Epsom and i know a couple of people that were in the same class as her, she was apparently hard work but also a perfectionist that would practice again and again until she got it right, whilst not the most talented in the class she was certainly the most persistent.
Whatttt!!!!
VB not talented?
Hold the front page!
Whod have thunk itLife isnt like a box of chocolates, its like a bag of pic n mix.0 -
simonhead wrote:Ballysmate wrote:simonhead wrote:Decent guy occasionally let down by poor decision making. Do i look up to him, no not particularly but i certainly dont have anything against him either. VB was at college in Epsom and i know a couple of people that were in the same class as her, she was apparently hard work but also a perfectionist that would practice again and again until she got it right, whilst not the most talented in the class she was certainly the most persistent.
Whatttt!!!!
VB not talented?
Hold the front page!
Whod have thunk it
She is a phenomenon.
She negotiated the contract that the spice girls signed, this netted them over £185,000,000.00 which could have been as low as £8,500,00.00 if they had signed the original one which didn't have the higher % take and merchandise deal.
She has globally branded Beckham and now runs one of the most substantial small fashion houses in the world with rave reviews from almost all of her peers.
Im beginning to think "what does anyone in the UK have to do to be seen as clever"?
Some will say its luck or good fortune but you make your own luck which can show the odd good fortune but you don't get any of that sitting on your RS !Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:simonhead wrote:Ballysmate wrote:simonhead wrote:Decent guy occasionally let down by poor decision making. Do i look up to him, no not particularly but i certainly dont have anything against him either. VB was at college in Epsom and i know a couple of people that were in the same class as her, she was apparently hard work but also a perfectionist that would practice again and again until she got it right, whilst not the most talented in the class she was certainly the most persistent.
Whatttt!!!!
VB not talented?
Hold the front page!
Whod have thunk it
She is a phenomenon.
She negotiated the contract that the spice girls signed, this netted them over £185,000,000.00 which could have been as low as £8,500,00.00 if they had signed the original one which didn't have the higher % take and merchandise deal.
She has globally branded Beckham and now runs one of the most substantial small fashion houses in the world with rave reviews from almost all of her peers.
Im beginning to think "what does anyone in the UK have to do to be seen as clever"?
Some will say its luck or good fortune but you make your own luck which can show the odd good fortune but you don't get any of that sitting on your RS !
Well she didn't do it all by herself did she? I bet her and DB were just told what to do and what to say 99% of the time, they just followed orders, that they paid for. Doing that doesnt make you clever???0 -
VTech wrote:Some will say its luck or good fortune but you make your own luck which can show the odd good fortune but you don't get any of that sitting on your RS !
You can be as clever and talented as you like but probably you don't make your own luck - you are just either lucky or not. There isn't really any shortage of talent or brains out there (BgT etc indicate the former at least) but if you make a success of yourself with it, it is probably more down to luck than anything. That's why the vast majority of people with talent and intelligence don't get the opportunity to fully utilise those skills. Put it this way - chances are there is someone on your street who could deservedly get to the top of the charts if they had the luck. "Talent" isn't a rare commodity so most of it isn't needed.Faster than a tent.......0 -
If you are lucky enough to have a quality RS.VTech wrote:Some will say its luck or good fortune but you make your own luck which can show the odd good fortune but you don't get any of that sitting on your RS !
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I guess thats what separates those that do and those that complain about those that do.
@pesky jones, she is well known for her ability to run her businesses, of course she has assistants and advisors but this is normal. She is also well famed for working the spice girls deal herself. She is also well known for running her fashion house with her firmly at the helm making the day to day desisions.
@Rolf F, you have to be in the game to get the chance though.
Ill give an example, I know a guy who is the best plasterer I've ever seen, his work is immense yet he works for a building contractor and gets paid what I think is a poor wage for his skills.
I know another very good plasterer who works for himself and takes home 5-8 times the wage of the other guy. Both are friends but one took the chance to go it alone whilst the other took the security of a salaried job.
@PBlakeney, ive had 18 RS cars and all were a nightmare, never again.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:@pesky jones, she is well known for her ability to run her businesses, of course she has assistants and advisors but this is normal. She is also well famed for working the spice girls deal herself. She is also well known for running her fashion house with her firmly at the helm making the day to day desisions.
Put it this way, if she didnt already have fame, money and her advisors, I'd doubt she'd get anywhere near where she is today, even with Rolf F's luck.0 -
Pesky Jones wrote:Well she didn't do it all by herself did she? I bet her and DB were just told what to do and what to say 99% of the time, they just followed orders, that they paid for. Doing that doesnt make you clever???
I'll refer back to the post I made a couple of pages, they might not be academically intelligent but they are smart!
It takes smarts to accept the right advice and ignore the bad advice, and the amount of advice they will be have offered over the years would have been astronomical. I would hazard a strong guess that most of us have been offered good advice which we didn't take!0 -
Rolf F wrote:VTech wrote:Some will say its luck or good fortune but you make your own luck which can show the odd good fortune but you don't get any of that sitting on your RS !
You can be as clever and talented as you like but probably you don't make your own luck - you are just either lucky or not. There isn't really any shortage of talent or brains out there (BgT etc indicate the former at least) but if you make a success of yourself with it, it is probably more down to luck than anything. That's why the vast majority of people with talent and intelligence don't get the opportunity to fully utilise those skills. Put it this way - chances are there is someone on your street who could deservedly get to the top of the charts if they had the luck. "Talent" isn't a rare commodity so most of it isn't needed.
David Beckham shot to fame as a footballer. Regardless of the subsequent modelleing work, branding of him (and the Mrs.) and all of the other multi million pound "industries" that have sprung up around him, it was football that got him recognised and gave him the "breaks" needed.
Football wasn't down to luck, it was down to hard work and practice, practice, practice as a kid, as a professional. As others have said, first on the training paddock, last off. This is a man who knows his limitations and knows the way to best exploit his ability as a player. You don't play for 2 of the biggest clubs in the world in Manchesteer United and Real Madrid, win 6 Premier League Titles, 2 FA Cups, the champions league, La Liga and appear at 3 world cups and captain your country without realising the brilliance of those you are playing with or against. He was TWICE runner up in the FIFA world player of the year award.
All the rest, the fragrance line, underwear, etc etc came as a result of him being a brilliant footballer. Limited, yes, but brilliant nonetheless. That right foot was without peer. I heard a manager or goalie once who said ". . . knowing David Beckham is going to curl the ball into the top corner is one thing, doing something about it is another.
Despite his limitations and the petulance that would occasionally surface, I have never, ever seen one man drag a national team through 90 minutes of football like he did against Greece. Ten men may have resigned themselves to defeat and non qualification for the World Cup but Beckham did not. His fitness, work rate and pride in playing for his country single handedly pulled them through that game and, when the moment came for precision and sublime skill, the man delivered in spades with a breathtaking free kick that launched a nation into rapture and all previous misdemeanors were forgiven. For that, the man is, and always will be, "a genius" in my book.Wilier Izoard XP0 -
crispybug2 wrote:Pesky Jones wrote:Well she didn't do it all by herself did she? I bet her and DB were just told what to do and what to say 99% of the time, they just followed orders, that they paid for. Doing that doesnt make you clever???
I'll refer back to the post I made a couple of pages, they might not be academically intelligent but they are smart!
I know, I thought we were taking that as a given.0 -
I could almost hear Jerusalem whilst reading that.laurentian wrote:Despite his limitations and the petulance that would occasionally surface, I have never, ever seen one man drag a national team through 90 minutes of football like he did against Greece. Ten men may have resigned themselves to defeat and non qualification for the World Cup but Beckham did not. His fitness, work rate and pride in playing for his country single handedly pulled them through that game and, when the moment came for precision and sublime skill, the man delivered in spades with a breathtaking free kick that launched a nation into rapture and all previous misdemeanors were forgiven. For that, the man is, and always will be, "a genius" in my book.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Pesky Jones wrote:VTech wrote:@pesky jones, she is well known for her ability to run her businesses, of course she has assistants and advisors but this is normal. She is also well famed for working the spice girls deal herself. She is also well known for running her fashion house with her firmly at the helm making the day to day desisions.
Put it this way, if she didnt already have fame, money and her advisors, I'd doubt she'd get anywhere near where she is today, even with Rolf F's luck.
But she didn't have fame, money or advisors at that time, she started with nothing and was asked to sign a 2.5% deal split between 5 girls with no merchandise rights. SHE didn't sign and worked a deal that made the 5 of them multi millionaires. Remember too that when she started dating david, he wasn't rich and she was a multi millionaire.
add to that the fact that she has made many times the money she made in the worlds biggest pop group off her own back and you have a genius. She is a marketing legend of the likes we rarely see.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:Pesky Jones wrote:VTech wrote:@pesky jones, she is well known for her ability to run her businesses, of course she has assistants and advisors but this is normal. She is also well famed for working the spice girls deal herself. She is also well known for running her fashion house with her firmly at the helm making the day to day desisions.
Put it this way, if she didnt already have fame, money and her advisors, I'd doubt she'd get anywhere near where she is today, even with Rolf F's luck.
But she didn't have fame, money or advisors at that time, she started with nothing and was asked to sign a 2.5% deal split between 5 girls with no merchandise rights. SHE didn't sign and worked a deal that made the 5 of them multi millionaires. Remember too that when she started dating david, he wasn't rich and she was a multi millionaire.
add to that the fact that she has made many times the money she made in the worlds biggest pop group off her own back and you have a genius. She is a marketing legend of the likes we rarely see.
Afraid I concur with vetch on this one.Life isnt like a box of chocolates, its like a bag of pic n mix.0 -
Hmm I take it all back after that + a little googling! Maybe I should learn a little about what I'm talking about instead of assuming. Plus I've just seen she was born in the same hospital as me 0
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But can she sing?0
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Ballysmate wrote:But can she sing?
Well enough to earn revenues of $800,000,000.00 in 2 years and an average of $75,000,000.00 between the 5 of them over a 6 year period which of course was topped up by other merchandising.
I don't actually think they were meant to be great singers but they were absolutely definitely great entertainers.
Not my bag but they done well.Living MY dream.0 -
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I could pretend that it is, but it isn't.pinarello001 wrote:The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Back on topic (pretty car BTW)
Smart but not clever
And nowhere, not even close to being the player his hype would have you believe
Not fit to tie the laces of Zidane, Scholes, etc
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
SecretSam wrote:Back on topic (pretty car BTW)
Smart but not clever
And nowhere, not even close to being the player his hype would have you believe
Not fit to tie the laces of Zidane, Scholes, etc
You do realise you got that the wrong way round don't you ?
Smart - a measure of what you know.
Clever - what you do with that knowledge.
I would actually say he is both. I would back that theory up with what he has done with his life which is proven beyond reasonable doubt. Can't argue with that.Living MY dream.0 -
So, how far have we got with this? He's smart but not intelligent.
From a marketing point of view, he is simply a puppet; a vessel in which to make lots of money. We have to separate the movers and shakers from the equation and then make the judgement but then that is nigh on impossible.
I'll take nothing away from the guy except to say he was not as good as many of his peers from Figo to Zidane to Clarence Seedorf or Thierry Henri for that matter (not really comparing like with like, I know).
Gascoigne on the other hand didn't/doesn't have the looks, the PR or management team behind him. He isn't as marketable. He goes off on benders. If Gascoigne had been marketable, would he have sunk to such depths?
Anyone with money doing charitable or philanthropic work is a case of 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' but in Beckham's place, how much of that is contrived and how silly would he be if he was left to his own devices with all that money?
Vtech, why do you insist on defending anyone who is financially successful? As if being financially successful is a measure of a man? Some of the hardest work is done by the lowest paid.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
There is another option. Most of us get our impression of Beckham's intelligence from his mind-numbing interviews, in which he has never said anything of any interest, ever. That might just be the result of media training, where footballers are (so I've been informed) taught to mumble bland platitudes to pointless questions.0
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pinarello001 wrote:So, how far have we got with this? He's smart but not intelligent.
From a marketing point of view, he is simply a puppet; a vessel in which to make lots of money. We have to separate the movers and shakers from the equation and then make the judgement but then that is nigh on impossible.
I'll take nothing away from the guy except to say he was not as good as many of his peers from Figo to Zidane to Clarence Seedorf or Thierry Henri for that matter (not really comparing like with like, I know).
Gascoigne on the other hand didn't/doesn't have the looks, the PR or management team behind him. He isn't as marketable. He goes off on benders. If Gascoigne had been marketable, would he have sunk to such depths?
Anyone with money doing charitable or philanthropic work is a case of 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' but in Beckham's place, how much of that is contrived and how silly would he be if he was left to his own devices with all that money?
Vtech, why do you insist on defending anyone who is financially successful? As if being financially successful is a measure of a man? Some of the hardest work is done by the lowest paid.
I agree with most of what you have said however if you have time to check up on what you have written you will realise I defend anyone regardless of power or money. Money isn't the issue in any way, I just think he doesn't deserve the negativity he gets. I have done exactly the same on this forum for people who have nothing.
Its about right/wrong rather than pounds/pence.Living MY dream.0 -
