Chain Cleaning

vermin

elbowloh wrote:

rower63 wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

For the life of me, I cannot undo my 10sp quick link by hand.

trick with the KMC ones is to lightly squeeze the plates together as you push the pins towards each other. They have a special extra recess which makes it difficult otherwise.

Yep, I've tried that and....nothing apart from sore fingers after many, many attempts.

I'm the same - I carry some tiny pliers to help my weedy fingers out.

bendertherobot

The Park Tool (etc) chain pliers are brilliant. Best £6 I ever spent.

My routine is baby wipes and re-lube for minor maintenance.

Then chain off and bathe in white spirit (then cassette) for major maintenance.

elbowloh

bendertherobot wrote:

The Park Tool (etc) chain pliers are brilliant. Best £6 I ever spent.

My routine is baby wipes and re-lube for minor maintenance.

Then chain off and bathe in white spirit (then cassette) for major maintenance.

Oh, I ended up buying the Park Tool pliers, but it's just annoying when you should be able to do it by hand.

tgotb

elbowloh wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

The Park Tool (etc) chain pliers are brilliant. Best £6 I ever spent.

My routine is baby wipes and re-lube for minor maintenance.

Then chain off and bathe in white spirit (then cassette) for major maintenance.

Oh, I ended up buying the Park Tool pliers, but it's just annoying when you should be able to do it by hand.

I've found it's easy to do by hand if:
1. The chain is a bit worn
2. You're not under any pressure
3. You have the tool sat on the workbench next to you (pretty much the same as 2).

In all seriousness though, it definitely seems to be easier with well-used quick links. I suspect the trade-off here is that they're a bit closer to auto-releasing of their own accord, but the pair of quick links I carry in my puncture repair kit are well-used for exactly this reason.

rower63

Mine have been easy to undo by hand from new on a new chain, with the bike upside-down on the floor. I last did it on Saturday. Perhaps it's the fact that I use a 10-speed (5.9mm) link on an 11-speed Campag chain (5.5mm I think).

KnightOfTheLongTights

I think it's possible to clean and maintain chain properly without removing it - especially if you do it regularly enough, like every 150 miles or so.
- scrub with old washing up brush and warm soapy water
- run the brush through rear sprockets for good measure
- spray with degreaser and wait a bit
- scrub some more with brush and warm soapy water
- rinse with hose and dry off with cloth
- spray with GT85 to get ride of all water and wipe down well with rag
- apply finish line ceramic wax and wipe off excess

Obviously turning of pedals involved throughout...

roger_merriman

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

I think it's possible to clean and maintain chain properly without removing it - especially if you do it regularly enough, like every 150 miles or so.
- scrub with old washing up brush and warm soapy water
- run the brush through rear sprockets for good measure
- spray with degreaser and wait a bit
- scrub some more with brush and warm soapy water
- rinse with hose and dry off with cloth
- spray with GT85 to get ride of all water and wipe down well with rag
- apply finish line ceramic wax and wipe off excess

Obviously turning of pedals involved throughout...

I give the MTB a wash and clean of chain etc after every ride almost without fail, the chain remains clean and very healthy looking, until I go for another ride when it ends up wet and muddy...

MisterMuncher

For a quick clean, I go for the old standby of cheap dishwashing detergent in a Lucozade bottle with some warm water. A couple of rinses through with clean water, then hit it with the hairdryer. Dribble on the lube and refit.

For a slightly more thorough job, I'll bath the chain and cassette in cooking oil overnight, then do the above. I find the lubrication penetrates a little better/lasts longer if the chain is still slightly warm.

itboffin

i bought my KMC SXL gold at least 4 years ago and have done nothing more than wipe it down and reapply Phil Woods oil every 3-4 weeks, still going strong.

mind you it did cost a fair packet initially

tgotb

itboffin wrote:

i bought my KMC SXL gold at least 4 years ago and have done nothing more than wipe it down and reapply Phil Woods oil every 3-4 weeks, still going strong.

That's pretty much what I'd expect; it's only when you fit them to a bike and start riding around on it that things get more complicated.

Do you keep it in a special display cabinet?

itboffin

no no that's the Cervelo the gold chain is on my old Trek along with the gold CNC/Ti brakes, like all commuting bikes use, silly :roll:

rolf_f

bendertherobot wrote:

The Park Tool (etc) chain pliers are brilliant. Best £6 I ever spent.

They are good though, strangely enough, they don't work on Wipperman quick links. But that's no problem as you don't need pliers for those.

TGOTB wrote:

I suspect the trade-off here is that they're a bit closer to auto-releasing of their own accord, but the pair of quick links I carry in my puncture repair kit are well-used for exactly this reason.

I think if your quick links are in danger of releasing on their own you need to be carrying a spare rear mech as well!

itboffin

I've never had a quick link open on its own and never needed a tool to fit or remove, try the kmc brand.

Plus I always remove my chain in transit again with no issues.

elbowloh

itboffin wrote:

I've never had a quick link open on its own and never needed a tool to fit or remove, try the kmc brand.

Plus I always remove my chain in transit again with no issues.

I am using KMC!

Tried an SRAM chain before and it snapped 3 times on 3 consecutive days within the 1st month (whilst on holiday in Sicily).

rower63

Rolf F wrote:

I think if your quick links are in danger of releasing on their own you need to be carrying a spare rear mech as well!

not to mention a spare pair of testicles :shock:

kiwimatt

Tried the Rower63 (TM) method at the weekend (well Aldi were doing big bottles of white spirit cheap and I remembered I already had an ultrasonic cleaner in the garage - would have been rude not to )
The mesmerising black mist was duly released. Relubed with this http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ptfe-dry-lube-100ml/ which is relatively runny consistency and a bit volatile smelling.

Results rather awesome. Drivetrain wasn't this quiet when bike was new. Lube won't survive the rain obviously so will have to use something else but I'm a convert.

tangled_metal

Noob question but wet and dry lube, what is the difference in the actual product? Wet is thicker I guess but what makes it so? I use halfords wet lube oil stuff and it seems to help for a week or so. I just dribble it on as I turn the pedals. No work stand just upside down bike on the floor so TBH I don't tend to do much maintenance unless I have to. Plus this winter coming I doubt I'll bother as the other half doesn't believe in bike maintenance indoors (she paid for the carpets so I'm stuck with her rules on this).

drlodge

Tangled Metal wrote:

Noob question but wet and dry lube, what is the difference in the actual product? Wet is thicker I guess but what makes it so? I use halfords wet lube oil stuff and it seems to help for a week or so. I just dribble it on as I turn the pedals. No work stand just upside down bike on the floor so TBH I don't tend to do much maintenance unless I have to. Plus this winter coming I doubt I'll bother as the other half doesn't believe in bike maintenance indoors (she paid for the carpets so I'm stuck with her rules on this).

As I understand it - wet lube stays wet whereas the wet stuff in dry lube will evaporate to leave just the dry lubrication consituents behind. I lube my bike in the bathroom where there's vinyl on the floor, so any mess easily wipes clean.

kiwimatt

Tangled Metal wrote:

Noob question but wet and dry lube, what is the difference in the actual product? Wet is thicker I guess but what makes it so?

Don't understand any of the technicalities no doubt someone will be along shortly to talk about viscosity etc
But that lube I linked to and similar 'dry' lubes won't survive a single commute in the rain ime - 10 miles later and you have squeaky and if you're not careful then a rusty chain as well. Need something stickier

vimfuego

Tangled Metal wrote:

Noob question but wet and dry lube, what is the difference in the actual product? Wet is thicker I guess but what makes it so? I use halfords wet lube oil stuff and it seems to help for a week or so. I just dribble it on as I turn the pedals. No work stand just upside down bike on the floor so TBH I don't tend to do much maintenance unless I have to. Plus this winter coming I doubt I'll bother as the other half doesn't believe in bike maintenance indoors (she paid for the carpets so I'm stuck with her rules on this).

As I see it wet lube is a bit "thicker" & so gunkier because it picks up more dirt - BUT stays on longer. Dry lube is "thinner" (stop me if I'm getting technical) and so picks up less cr@p - BUT washes off more easily in rain etc.

I just use wet lube all the time - seems to protect the commuter from road salt etc all winter. That said, I'm borderline OCD about cleaning my bikes regularly anyway so either would probably do.

threespeed

[TL;DR]

Ultrasonic cleaning is cool - and it works.
I like buying stuff!
Still not sure which chain lube is best.

[/TL;DR]

Having used ultrasonic cleaners in motorsport in the past I thought I'd give the rower method a go too. Until now I've used one of those clip-on chain cleaners which is shite, wasteful of cleaning liquid and creates a huge mess.

I live in a flat with just a small balcony and no access to a shed/garage to do bike maintenance in. For the sake of my relationship, doing serious bike cleaning inside the flat is not an option - already have enough problems keeping the best bike indoors (black grease spots on cream carpet, tyre scuffs on walls/doorframes, piles of bike-related clutter etc.)

This means I have to lug all my cleaning stuff down to the (outdoor) carpark, put down tons of newspaper and spend a miserable hour or two scrubbing. I HATE doing this and as a consequence rarely do a proper clean - to my shame I've done 2,700 miles on my current bike from new and have only done a proper chain and cassette deep clean once, instead I periodically commit the cardinal sin - putting lube on an already dirty chain - and try to wipe off as much dirt/excess lube as possible with a rag. I hate the black gunge and gritty/clanky feel and poor shifting of a chain in this state, but not as much as I hate cleaning the damn thing.

I've always used this stuff for 'proper' cleaning - Gunk engine degreaser:

Pros:
- very powerful degreasant, I've never found anything more effective other than really noxious industrial stuff like brake cleaner or acetone (different versions available though apparently, some of which are more like soap - the one I use is deep red in colour and goes white and cloudy when mixed with water)
- water soluble so can be washed off /diluted with water. I've never used turpentine on the bike - isn't it not really water soluble?

Cons:
- STINKS like an explosion in a septic tank at the devil's oil refinery. The smell permeates gloves, overalls, your hair and clothes, and the bike for days afterwards - it usually takes 3 or 4 showers with thorough scrubbing of hands with a nail brush before I stop noticing the smell.
- possibly not very environmentally friendly - although Gunk do make an eco 'green' version, some reviews I've read suggest this isn't as effective though, maybe isn't water soluble?

So I bought an ultrasonic cleaner - the same 170W one from Maplin as in rower's blog post.
And a chain splitter.
And a SRAM 11-speed chain link.
And chain link removal/replacement pliers.
And a portable water bowl for dogs. (Seriously - it was the only container I could find with a properly liquid-tight lid seal and big enough opening to fit my whole 11-28 cassette in: http://www.thirstymilo.co.uk.)

The holy grail for me was finding a way to clean both chain AND cassette off the bike that involves no scrubbing, wiping, brushes or rags, no open bowls of cleaning fluid, no fumes, no mess - just a brief shake in solvent in sealed containers and finishing off in the ultrasound water bath with a few drops of washing up liquid.


Old cleaning stuff - cack


New cleaning stuff - tidy

Putting a cable tie loosley through the middle of the cassette keeps it all together through the process and makes reassembly quicker. I found an old fabric softener bottle good for shaking the chain up in - large opening and doesn't leak.


Pre-wash

http://youtu.be/NbKSZUfPawY
The Black Cloud (sorry for blurry/shaky video)


Done - after drying for a few minutes in the oven on low heat - spotless

I'm currently still using Finish Line wet lube after cleaning but am interested in trying the heated wax method - the only ones I've seen are the Putoline Chain Wax someone posted earlier in the thread, or this one which would cost $30 to import from the US: http://www.runawaybike.com/products/hot-tub - anyone tried it?

cruff

J-cloth.
Fairy liquid.
Warm water.

Turn crank backwards for about a minute whilst holding chain with cloth. Rinse. Repeat once.

Job done

Life's too short to screw around with all manner of tomfoolery like warming stuff up on the hob, or removing the chain to clean it every week

dodgy

Rag. GT85. Wipe.

Beer.

itboffin

dodgy wrote:

Rag. GT85. Wipe.

Beer.

nothing more that this ^^^ or you're really wasting your time

desweller

itboffin wrote:

dodgy wrote:

Rag. GT85. Wipe.

Beer.

nothing more that this ^^^ or you're really wasting your time

I'm more of a white spirit man myself.














I still use GT85 on the chain though.

il_principe

zebulebu wrote:

J-cloth.
Fairy liquid.
Warm water.

Turn crank backwards for about a minute whilst holding chain with cloth. Rinse. Repeat once.

Job done

Life's too short to screw around with all manner of tomfoolery like warming stuff up on the hob, or removing the chain to clean it every week

Fairy Liquid has salt in it...

leeefm

Il Principe wrote:

Fairy Liquid has salt in it...

Oops...

Morgan blue chain cleaner
Rinse
Washing up water (fairy) and sponge run through chain
Rinse
Dry
Lube

Not as good as ultrasonic cleaning, but the best I've gotten so far, and relatively quick too.

Manc33

Paraffin or diesel. You can't use anything water based. Been there, rusted that. My worry is "melting off" the magic wax with paraffin, but anything water based and it will be rusty in 1 week.

Does anyone make chains out of 7075?

meanredspider

Il Principe wrote:

Fairy Liquid has salt in it...

A total myth and utter borlicks!!! The moon is also made of cheese.... :roll:

I'd love to know where this started. What purpose do people think salt serves? I was engineering manager for the production facility for 3 years. Fairy contains quite a few things that serve a number if purposes: IMS to make your plates shine, suds stabilisers, perfume, dye, various detergents - but no salt. Please don't perpetuate this nonsense!

First.Aspect

meanredspider wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Fairy Liquid has salt in it...

Please don't perpetuate this nonsense!

Toothpaste is made from the same stuff as CIF.