Chain Cleaning

rower63

In case anyone's interested, I've posted up on my site my method for cleaning the drivechain on my bikes. I'm sure many of you already do something like this.

TLDNR version: remove chain, two shakes in white-spirit, 2 x 3 mins in ultrasonic cleaner, rinse, dry, lubricate, re-attach. Similar for cassette.

http://www.slidingseat.net/cycling/cycling.html#chainclean

Initialised

You forgot the wax, what's the point getting a chain ultra clean if you aren't going to wax it to keep it that way?

With wax you don't get that grinding paste so chains and therefore cassettes and chainrings last much longer.

MrSweary

My method. Liberally spray chain with environmentally disastrous chain cleaner until it is clean. Try not to choke. Let it drip dry. Wipe clean with a greasy rag. Lube. Run through gears. Leave 5 minutes. Wipe clean with oily rag. Et voila!

meanredspider

The question I always have with the chain cleaning debate is how much difference to the longevity of a chain really make and, given the cost of chains and cassettes, are they really worth it?

Taking this example, which does seem to get the chain clean, the costs include:
The ultrasonic bath
Cleaning fluids
Relubricating oils
Time required
Disposal of fluids
Energy (cleaner & oven)

Whilst I understand the concept, anybody who has lapped-in engine valves using grinding paste, knows that the paste does everything it can to get out of the contact area and therefore why the "black paste" finds its way to the outside of the chain (part of the job of a lubricant is to carry grime away from contact areas).

I don't have the answer but, even when commuting most days, I only changed a chain about once a year and cassette every other year from what I remember. In fact, I often needed to change chain and cassette for other reasons (different ratios etc).

veronese68

Fair point by MRS, but although the grinding paste is quickly moved out of the way it also does it's job quite quickly. The question is valid of how much does it extend chain life though. I'd like to have such a strict regime of maintenance, but I'm just too lazy with so many other distractions that need attending to.
But that is impressively clean which kind of appeals. The more important question for me is to have a silent running chain. I tried some wax lube and the chain was always noisy. Not squeaking but sounded loose and rattly, bloody irritating. I usually go with a dry lube of some sort. I know ITB swears by some rare formulation of donkey extract or something.

tgotb

R63 - what's your re-lubrication methodology? Reason I ask is that I once experimented with petrol as a chain cleaner (which I don't recommend for a bunch of reasons), and it degreased the chain so effectively that I never managed to relube it properly, and it would go dry and squeaky after a few days. Switching to paraffin as a cleaning agent solved that problem, but I don't think it's that effective a degreaser.

Edit: What led to the choice of white spirit in particular?

Manc33

Thats nearly my method. You can't realistically clean the drivetrain without taking off the chain. Everything else on the bike can be cleaned with Muc-Off or whatever, any water based cleaner. The chain however will be ruined by something like Muc-Off, especially if you use a chain cleaner machine thingy. One week and your chain will be 100% rusted.

I used 2" of paraffin in a glass jar, doing 2 rinses of the chain, it gives you practically a new chain. Cleaned the cassette, chainrings and both mechs with Muc-Off. Once all that is back together its like a new drivetrain again. Its just that those periods of it feeling like a new drivetrain after an overhaul get shorter and shorter as time goes on.

Next time I might put paraffin in the chain cleaner but it always leaks, a jar is far less messy and since paraffin (or diesel or white spirit) just melts the dirt off, no need to use any "scrubbing" method.

What about that "factory lubricant" though? Won't paraffin etc melt that stuff off?

My chain is squeaking and I know I have oiled the entire length of it. I didn't oil the entire length of it, did I? :roll:

tgotb

One other question: What are you guys doing with your used paraffin/white spirit?

MonkeyMonster

TGOTB wrote:

One other question: What are you guys doing with your used paraffin/white spirit?

Sell to boffin for one of his cocktails...

essex-commuter

I clean mine with diesel.

dodgy

Wipe with a rag with a bit of GT85 on it, no drama, literally 90 second job. My chain is always amongst the cleanest of my peers

drlodge

Best chain cleaning method is one that gets it reasonably clean in the minimal amount of time. Seriously, life's too short and chain's aren't expensive in the big scheme of things. Quick clean, lube, and go ride.

Wax is for candles.

surrey_commuter

MrSweary wrote:

My method. Liberally spray chain with environmentally disastrous chain cleaner until it is clean. Try not to choke. Let it drip dry. Wipe clean with a greasy rag. Lube. Run through gears. Leave 5 minutes. Wipe clean with oily rag. Et voila!

That is my method and has the added bonus of entertaining the kids and getting rid of family pets. Not sure about longevity but a quiet chain works between the ears

MonkeyMonster

drlodge wrote:

Wax is for candles.

Who has the popcorn - this could get entertaining?

asprilla

I've been using wax recently. I don't like it.

For me it required more cleaning as the chain got 'sticky' quicker. Also, oil tends to stay on the cloth, but the wax bits drop on the floor and then get on your feet and then get trampled on the new carpets in the kids rooms. That would lead to you getting berated by your wife.

elbowloh

drlodge wrote:

Best chain cleaning method is one that gets it reasonably clean in the minimal amount of time. Seriously, life's too short and chain's aren't expensive in the big scheme of things. Quick clean, lube, and go ride.

Wax is for candles.

I give mine a weekly quick clean as above.

Then have a deep clean (of the whole bike) every so often where I take pretty much the whole thing apart.

drlodge

I have 3 levels of chain cleaning or should I say maintenance, although I haven't done the 3rd deep clean for ages since I haven't needed to:

1 Regularly, normally the night before each ride:
- wipe down chain with rag sprayed with GT85 to clean it
- apply ProGold Prolink lube using a dropper bottle, one drop per link
- spin pedals a few times

2 Whenever I clean the bike outside 'cos its dirty (average monthly)
- spray chain, cassette etc with Fenwicks foam chain cleaner and leave to soak while I wash the worst off the bike
- spray chain again using some cheap citrus cleaner (cost £12 for a gallon, can just use Fenwicks but it isnt a very strong cleaner)
- using a Fenwick's chain clean sponge (below), scrub chain to get it clean
- rinse off using car shampoo/water and a washing mitt
- dry using a microfibre cloth
- leave to dry properly for a bit
- lube as above
- cassette and chainrings cleaned with parktools gearclean brush & citrus laener then washed off

3 Deep clean.
- as (2) but using the Parktools chain scrubber with white spirit then citrus cleaner then rinse.

(1) is very quick and keeps the chain very clean using ProGold ProLink since its kinda "self cleaning", so there's not normally much more to get off using (2) and hence I haven't used (3) in ages

This sponge works very well with a good cleaner:

surrey_commuter

drlodge wrote:

I have 3 levels of chain cleaning or should I say maintenance, although I haven't done the 3rd deep clean for ages since I haven't needed to:

1 Regularly, normally the night before each ride:
- wipe down chain with rag sprayed with GT85 to clean it
- apply ProGold Prolink lube using a dropper bottle, one drop per link
- spin pedals a few times

2 Whenever I clean the bike outside 'cos its dirty (average monthly)
- spray chain, cassette etc with Fenwicks foam chain cleaner and leave to soak while I wash the worst off the bike
- spray chain again using some cheap citrus cleaner (cost £12 for a gallon, can just use Fenwicks but it isnt a very strong cleaner)
- using a Fenwick's chain clean sponge (below), scrub chain to get it clean
- rinse off using car shampoo/water and a washing mitt
- dry using a microfibre cloth
- leave to dry properly for a bit
- lube as above
- cassette and chainrings cleaned with parktools gearclean brush & citrus laener then washed off

3 Deep clean.
- as (2) but using the Parktools chain scrubber with white spirit then citrus cleaner then rinse.

(1) is very quick and keeps the chain very clean using ProGold ProLink since its kinda "self cleaning", so there's not normally much more to get off using (2) and hence I haven't used (3) in ages

This sponge works very well with a good cleaner:

where do you get your citrus cleaner at £12 a gallon. I pay that per can (it is used by Team Sky) :shock:

drlodge

CCP Supplies in Walnut Tree Close near Guildford station - its an Alladin's Cave of cleaning supplies and other goodies. I'll try and remember to see what the product is I bought and post here.

vermin

IME:

Maintenance usually required about once a month, twice in winter (average monthly mileage about 600):

If chain makes a noise, wipe with a rag and apply lube (whatever is to hand)

If chain looks disgusting, wipe with a rag and apply lube (whatever is to hand)

If there is so much stuff between sprockets that chain jumps, run a brush over it.

Replace chain annually if sufficiently worn, cassette only ever changed for ratio changes.

OR, you could fall into the marketing man's paranoia trap .

coopster_the_1st

meanredspider wrote:

The question I always have with the chain cleaning debate is how much difference to the longevity of a chain really make and, given the cost of chains and cassettes, are they really worth it?

Taking this example, which does seem to get the chain clean, the costs include:
The ultrasonic bath
Cleaning fluids
Relubricating oils
Time required
Disposal of fluids
Energy (cleaner & oven)

Whilst I understand the concept, anybody who has lapped-in engine valves using grinding paste, knows that the paste does everything it can to get out of the contact area and therefore why the "black paste" finds its way to the outside of the chain (part of the job of a lubricant is to carry grime away from contact areas).

I don't have the answer but, even when commuting most days, I only changed a chain about once a year and cassette every other year from what I remember. In fact, I often needed to change chain and cassette for other reasons (different ratios etc).

I'm similar to the above. Very little cleaning done and chain and cassette did 10k miles(although this is summer bike so ridden in better conditions). Bike has done nearly 2k miles on new chain and cassette.

Approach is to just apply lube once a month(unless caught in heavy rain) and GT85 at least once a week depending on mileage. Bike gets a deep clean once, maybe twice a year.

When a replacement Ultegra chain and cassette come in at under £50, is it worth the time cost with all this cleaning?

tgotb

vermin wrote:

IME:

Maintenance usually required about once a month, twice in winter (average monthly mileage about 600):
.
.
.
OR, you could fall into the marketing man's paranoia trap .

It depends what/where you're riding. I experimented (through laziness) with cleaning the chain of my cross bike less than once per ride during the muddy part of last season, and it stopped working and pulled the rear mech off. If I'm going to have to clean it anyway, I might aswell try to do a decent job.

rower63

meanredspider wrote:

The question I always have with the chain cleaning debate is how much difference to the longevity of a chain really make

One of the reasons I’m doing this, apart from the fact I enjoy having a spotless drivetrain, is to see if this makes a noticeable difference. Previously I’d expect a chain to last about 3,000 miles (i.e. 4 months commuting at current rates).

meanredspider wrote:

and, given the cost of chains and cassettes, are they really worth it?
Taking this example, which does seem to get the chain clean, the costs include:
The ultrasonic bath...

The Ultrasonic cleaner has already paid for itself via other means. I used it to clean many of the 10-20 year old bits (headsets, BBs, brakesets etc) from long-dead commuting skeletons, and sold them in amazing condition on eBay.

TGOTB wrote:

R63 - what's your re-lubrication methodology? Reason I ask is that I once experimented with petrol as a chain cleaner (which I don't recommend for a bunch of reasons) ...
Edit: What led to the choice of white spirit in particular?

I also don’t like petrol, too dangerous. I use white-spirit as my BBQ lighting fluid of choice and had some around when I started, and it’s served well so I’ve stuck with it.
I re-use the white spirit as many times as I can, and when I think one particular container is finally contaminated with too much dissolved lube, I use it for lighting the BBQ. In winter I guess I’ll take it to the local council facility, or save it for summer.

TGOTB wrote:

... petrol degreased the chain so effectively that I never managed to relube it properly

haha yes. The lube question. I deliberately avoided that in my article (by simply saying “lubricate to taste”), as although I can demonstrate that my cleaned chain is “perfectly clean”, I can’t demonstrate that it will afterwards be “perfectly lubricated”. TBH, I’m still experimenting.
The first time I cleaned it this way, I used a penetrating lube called “Purple Extreme”. On my first ride, it became evident that I’d missed just one single link in applying it, as one link was squeaking. When I found which one and applied a drop to it, the squeak stopped. But then the whole chain started squeaking about 15 miles into my ride. PE alone clearly wasn’t cutting it.
What I do currently is after cleaning and drying, lay the chain out flat, apply Purple Extreme to all links, manipulate it a little to get it into the innards, then similarly apply some engine oil using an old wet-lube dropper, manipulate the chain again and wipe it as externally dry as possible. I haven’t had a squeak yet. I might also try chainsaw oil and/or auto transmission oil.

jzed

I just spray the chain with a degreaser, then use a pressure washer for a few minutes to blast 95% of the grime away (directing away from any seals etc). Some water repellent stuff to disperse the water, then re-lube before use.

I did try the degreaser machines, but the time versus buying a £19.99 chain didn't seem worth it. Pressure washer takes all of 5 minutes.

UndercoverElephant

I'm a convert to the ultrasonic bath too. My method is much like Mr. Rower's: white spirit for a bit, then into the ultrasonic bath (containing water and some Flash floor cleaner). After about 10 minutes it's gleaming, wipe down with kitchen roll and pop back on the bike. My current lube of choice is Rock 'n' Roll Extreme, does make a little grinding paste, but less than Muck-Off Wet Lube, and it works well all year round. Spin the chain while dribbling it, and keep spinning for a bit whilst you're not, then wipe off everything with kitchen-roll

I too found Purple Extreme seemed to disappear quickly, still have half a bottle that I never finished using.

Clean bikes go faster, those with gleaming drive-trains go faster still.

il_principe

What a massive ball ache.

I wipe my chain down before each ride (best bike). Cleaning is just a case of decreasing the chain on the bike, wiping it until no black residue remains and then lubing (progold prolink or Rock N Roll Gold), leave overnight and then wipe away residue.

I'd be wary or Rower's method, aren't you in danger of stripping factory lube from areas other lube may find 'hard to reach'?

rower63

Il Principe wrote:

I'd be wary or Rower's method, aren't you in danger of stripping factory lube from areas other lube may find 'hard to reach'?

Actually it's the whole point, as any lube inside the chain internals will be contaminated with small particles that are very difficult to remove any other way. The point of the u/s cleaning is to remove all that in a way that most external "spray-n-wipe" cleaning methods don't do. Which necessarily includes removing any lube already in there, factory or otherwise.
But I agree the re-lubing is important and worthy of a whole other discussion.
My current method is to apply a highly penetrating (i.e. very thin) lube, and follow it up with a thicker one, which initially will get dissolved in the penetrator's solvent (and therefore will penetrate too), but once the solvent's evaporated the thicker stuff is left inside. Has worked well so far, but as I say I'm still experimenting.

Missybiker

Dear god, there is just so much for me to learn. I thought I just needed to lube it, now I'm hearing about deep cleans and changes annually. Bugger, I though giving the chain a spray was enough!

drlodge

You don't need to be anal or spend alot of time on yor chain, just clean (wipe with rag) and lube regularly and it'll be fine. Deep cleaning is for us anal folk who like things spotless

Kieran_Burns

Missybiker wrote:

Dear god, there is just so much for me to learn. I thought I just needed to lube it, now I'm hearing about deep cleans and changes annually. Bugger, I though giving the chain a spray was enough!

I think you need to understand that this lot individually apply chamois cream to each of the 10 panels of their bib-shorts before each ride, shave their legs and talk about 'zones' when commuting in.

The rest of us just get on the bike and ride

Anonymous

TGOTB wrote:

It depends what/where you're riding. I experimented (through laziness) with cleaning the chain of my cross bike less than once per ride during the muddy part of last season, and it stopped working and pulled the rear mech off. If I'm going to have to clean it anyway, I might aswell try to do a decent job.

If only the road bike was given such attention....just need to put the saddle and guards back on (I stole it as its so comfy) then you can have it back!