Energy drinks, gels and bars

ugo.santalucia

apreading wrote:

When I was in Italy recently, the tour leaders said that if the accomodation provides bottle water in the rooms, dont trust the tap water but if they dont that means the tap water should be OK to drink. Is that true?

Being a country that already had aqueducts when in Britain folks were mostly dying for drinking poisoned water from a puddle, you can be sure that every building in Italy has drinking water.
I lived for 5 years in Pavia, which has a spring of sulphur rich water... horrible taste, but perfectly drinkable, in fact people pay good money to drink that stuff from the nearby SPAs

ugo.santalucia

Imposter wrote:

Not sure what point you are trying to make there Ugo - exercise and hydration have always been inextricably linked for well-understood and long established physiological reasons.

My point is that the role of "hydration" and "sport nutrition" is hyped and a lot of folks throw away hard earned cash to buy products which are completely un-necessary (if not harmful)

imposter2.0

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Not sure what point you are trying to make there Ugo - exercise and hydration have always been inextricably linked for well-understood and long established physiological reasons.

My point is that the role of "hydration" and "sport nutrition" is hyped and a lot of folks throw away hard earned cash to buy products which are completely un-necessary (if not harmful)

It may be hyped, but earlier you seemed to be dismissing the 'urine colour test' as part of this hype, when it obviously isn't.

ugo.santalucia

Imposter wrote:

It may be hyped, but earlier you seemed to be dismissing the 'urine colour test' as part of this hype, when it obviously isn't.

To keep hydrated to the level you would recommend (almost colourless urine), on a warm day you should be drinking around 2 x 500 ml bottles an hour. That's 10 bottles on a 5 hours sunday ride. So that's 4 stops to refill the bottles (or 3 if you have bigger bottles) in a nation which has no public fountains... now you tell me what is the practicality of that... moral is, if you don't have the luxury of an admiral car, you have to live with yellow urine or limit your rides to under 2 hours.

imposter2.0

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Imposter wrote:

It may be hyped, but earlier you seemed to be dismissing the 'urine colour test' as part of this hype, when it obviously isn't.

To keep hydrated to the level you would recommend (almost colourless urine), on a warm day you should be drinking around 2 x 500 ml bottles an hour. That's 10 bottles on a 5 hours sunday ride. So that's 4 stops to refill the bottles (or 3 if you have bigger bottles) in a nation which has no public fountains... now you tell me what is the practicality of that... moral is, if you don't have the luxury of an admiral car, you have to live with yellow urine or limit your rides to under 2 hours.

I think you are deliberately obfuscating the issue. The colour test is a perfectly valid way of establishing your approximate hydration level. Nobody is suggesting you have to maintain that level throughout the entire ride - only that it is a good way of quickly establishing how hydrated you are. But if you want to pee into a bucket and analyse it every sixty minutes, that's up to you...

navrig2

apreading wrote:

I used to know someone who worked in the water industry. I forget the exact numbers but he used to say that tap water in the UK has to go through something like 50 different processes to be allowed for consumption whereas bottled water only goes through 15 - so tap water should in theory be cleaner.

I think you are confusing tests abd treatment processes. The number of test parameters applied to the public (piped) water supply is more than applied to the bottled water industry. There are different "types" of bottled water - see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottled_wa ... pean_Union - and the rules on treatment and test vary. However it is worth noting that

Disinfection of natural mineral water is completely prohibited, including the addition of any element that is likely to change bacterial colony counts.

where as all public supply water in the UK is disinfected.

As a water engineer it pains me to see people paying more water than petrol!!

More information here, albeit maybe slightly biased, http://www.banthebottle.net/articles/7- ... hs-busted/

vimfuego

Imposter wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Imposter wrote:

It may be hyped, but earlier you seemed to be dismissing the 'urine colour test' as part of this hype, when it obviously isn't.

To keep hydrated to the level you would recommend (almost colourless urine), on a warm day you should be drinking around 2 x 500 ml bottles an hour. That's 10 bottles on a 5 hours sunday ride. So that's 4 stops to refill the bottles (or 3 if you have bigger bottles) in a nation which has no public fountains... now you tell me what is the practicality of that... moral is, if you don't have the luxury of an admiral car, you have to live with yellow urine or limit your rides to under 2 hours.

I think you are deliberately obfuscating the issue. The colour test is a perfectly valid way of establishing your approximate hydration level. Nobody is suggesting you have to maintain that level throughout the entire ride - only that it is a good way of quickly establishing how hydrated you are. But if you want to pee into a bucket and analyse it every sixty minutes, that's up to you...

OBFUSCATING - Chapeau Sir!

apreading

ugo.santalucia wrote:

apreading wrote:

When I was in Italy recently, the tour leaders said that if the accomodation provides bottle water in the rooms, dont trust the tap water but if they dont that means the tap water should be OK to drink. Is that true?

Being a country that already had aqueducts when in Britain folks were mostly dying for drinking poisoned water from a puddle, you can be sure that every building in Italy has drinking water.

Maybe back in those days, but in more recent times, I think the UK is generally more regulated than many other countries and as such our water is extremely good in comparison.

Anyway - I found a much better drink in Italy - Cafè Corretto a Sambuca. One of those mid-afternoon helped keep me going until the end of day destination!

ugo.santalucia

Imposter wrote:

I think you are deliberately obfuscating the issue. The colour test is a perfectly valid way of establishing your approximate hydration level. Nobody is suggesting you have to maintain that level throughout the entire ride - only that it is a good way of quickly establishing how hydrated you are. But if you want to pee into a bucket and analyse it every sixty minutes, that's up to you...

I didn't think it was an issue in the first place... in fact it is a non issue... but clearly one close to your heart....

You drink a double espresso you pee deep yellow... are you dehydrated? You eat a slice of calf liver, you pee deep yellow, are you dehydrated? You eat a beet, you pee pink... are you an alien?

If you want we can talk pee colour, but personally I am not that interested... the only thing I am interested in is discussing whether paying premium for sport hydration/food is a waste of money or not... which is kind more in line with the topic

Iamnot Wiggins

"Hydration is hyped".

You heard it here first people - staying alive is just hype.

navrig2

apreading wrote:

Maybe back in those days, but in more recent times, I think the UK is generally more regulated than many other countries and as such our water is extremely good in comparison.

Perhaps in the past but recent times.

These days all countries are regulated to the same minimum standard laid down by the EU. On that basis I tend to drink the local water when in and around the med.

I suspect that cyclists are working on the basis of ignorance (about public water quality standards versus bottled water standards) and fear that a jug of water on the table has to be poured by someone and served in a glass washed by someone which introduces two potential points of contamination. I also wouldn't be surprised that they also fear wilful contamination by competitor teams!!

A plastic bottle with a sealed cap seems safer to them.

navrig2

Put the hadnbags away guys.

You're both right and seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing.

There was, however, a recent TV programme that claimed to have looked at research suggesting that the idea "if you are thristy" it is too late is incorrect and may well have been promoted by drinks companies to encourage over hydration. The research seemed to indicate performance didn't drop away as quickly as some people think or promote.

Either way we all know that d-hydration is not hyped and if allowed to go too far can be detrimental to the health. I have two colleagues who suffered kidney stones as a result of regularly only drinking coffee/tea during the working day. After that painful experience they started drinking water.

ednino

TinyMac wrote:

I heard some very convincing spiel from a Torq rep at a recent event but obviously from a very biased standpoint.

I've used all the available brands of powders, tablets, gels. I have a bowel condition that means I struggle to absorb nutrients & water properly.

Torq have been the best for me & I've settled with their products. As a bonus, they also taste the best

Anonymous

ednino wrote:

TinyMac wrote:

I heard some very convincing spiel from a Torq rep at a recent event but obviously from a very biased standpoint.

I've used all the available brands of powders, tablets, gels. I have a bowel condition that means I struggle to absorb nutrients & water properly.

Torq have been the best for me & I've settled with their products. As a bonus, they also taste the best

My feeling is that Torq stuff is very good (certainly agree it tastes about the best) and therefore the rep is probably telling it how it is rather than talking a load of tosh to get our cash as some of you seem to think :roll:

People often say something is cr4p just because they do not want to spend the money on it. They then convince themselves, and then others, that it actually is cr4p because it makes them feel better about the situation.

navrig2

I'd suggest it is less about stuff being cr4p and more about it being appropriate.

Gels and energy bars are designed for top athletes achieve their best but sold to the masses to make a profit. Someone doing 25 mile rides and eating a gel during that session is making inappropriate use of the gel. IMHO.

birdie23

I like the Gatorade powder stuff. So I make up one of my bottles on rides over 2 hours with that. I find if I go with just water I can get cramp but the Gatorade helps keep that at bay. Also it tastes nicer when it gets warm than water. But if it weren't for the cramp issue I'd just ride with water only.

charlie_potatoes

Navrig2 wrote:

Gels and energy bars are designed for top athletes achieve their best but sold to the masses to make a profit. Someone doing 25 mile rides and eating a gel during that session is making inappropriate use of the gel. IMHO.

It's 100 calories of carbs FFS

drlodge

I would much prefer to each a piece of flapjack or fig roll than an energy bar any day.

No, sorry, that's wrong. I just want to eat cake.

Roadie74

Cornerblock wrote:

Do you mind sharing your homemade gel recipe? And how you package them? I'm intrigued.

I use dried dates, soaked in water & honey overnight (+1/2 teaspoon of sea salt), then they are soft enough to take a hand blender to and blend into a thick viscous goop. I then weigh them out on kitchen scales, around 130g per gel and use the thin plastic fruit and veg bags you get at supermarkets, tie with a kind of double knot so the bag has a tail and is easy to pull out of the back pocket. I just tear away a bit of the bag, squeeze, and its down in about 5 or 6 gulps (quite a bit thicker than normal gels), then wash down with some water. One of these does me an hour+, not as quick an energy boost as normal gels (if you get one down before the hunger pangs set in that should not matter) but they last longer and have better nutrition (various vitamins + fiber etc...
http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/dates.html). Not for everyone though, but they do me.

Only problem is from an aesthetical point of view they don't look that good/appetising...more like dog sh*t in a bag, but hey, I've yet to develop the fancy foil packaging to hide that . Oh and some folks just don't like dates.

500g dates (5kg pitted suma dates from amazon for just under £11)
250-300ml water (thicker/thinner)
6-7 tablespoons honey
1/2 teaspoon sea salt
6 thin fruit n veg/sandwich bags
digital kitchen scales

1)soak dates overnight (or 5hrs?) in the water that has had the honey and salt already mixed in
2)blend with a hand blender or food processor (spoon through the mixture to make sure skins have been blended)
3)weigh and bag up

makes around 6 130g gels, for around £1.20 ish, 20p a gel

and while I'm here, electrolyte drink for one 750ml bottle:

200ml freshly squeezed orange juice (roughly 2 med oranges)
550ml water
1/2 teaspoon sea salt

um..blend, add to bottle...drink

Anonymous

Navrig2 wrote:

I'd suggest it is less about stuff being cr4p and more about it being appropriate.

Gels and energy bars are designed for top athletes achieve their best but sold to the masses to make a profit. Someone doing 25 mile rides and eating a gel during that session is making inappropriate use of the gel. IMHO.

Its about a lot of things (like most things are) but it usually gets argued about from just two extremes (like most things do).

Not sure they are just for top athletes but agree on your 25 mile point. I made the same point in the last paragraph of my first post

I think a gel as a combined treat/boost/reward would work well for the OP if he aims at higher milage.
Not much different from a Mars bar in terms of energy I would not have thought, just better/different tasting and a lot more convenient.

As I and others have said, one of the good things about gels is they do not get scoffed randomly at home (at least I don't).

cornerblock

@ Roadie74. Cheers for that. Might give it a go, sounds alright, not the dog sh*t in a bag bit mind!

TinyMac

Thanks for all your replies folks, chuckled along with some of them!

As I said in my original post I'm new to this and do 25miles on a 600ml bottle of (standard british tap) water. My partner does a lot more (between 40-60miles almost every other day) so I was mainly asking for him, he uses various ones, I seem to pay for various ones so would like to know if they're actually necessary and if so which is best etc!

Impressed with the homemade gels, very inventive, although he won't eat dates...

iPete

Use them for convenience if nothing else. I usually have a gel on me for emergencies, contrary to what people say you can run yourself into the ground on a 25 mile ride.

I like to get mule bars or clif bars when a good offer comes along. It works out cheaper than the petrol station stops I have to make when bonking.

Iamnot Wiggins

iPete wrote:

I like to get mule bars or clif bars when a good offer comes along. It works out cheaper than the petrol station stops I have to make when bonking.

Hahahaha!! Side effect of dogging?

Anonymous

ugo.santalucia wrote:

To promote an industry that didn't exist, they even "invented" the word dehydration, which previously only belonged to the medical gergon. Before we used to say "I am thirsty"... but now everybody says "I am dehydrated", from a desire it has become an acute condition, that you can cure by spending 1.50 for a bottle of water or a bit more for "hydrating fluids" (read water + sugar and flavourings).
My family used to drink tap water until the bottle water industry in Italy made such a campaign that it became almost a sin to drink tap water. Nobody drinks tap water enymore.... even if they live close to the spring the bottled water comes from. If you take a walk in the bottled water aisle in an Italian supermarket, you are likely to count between 50 and 100 different brands and types of bottled water, with various degrees of carbonation... then there is another aisle for the flavoured water.

Bring on hydration, the latest trick of the trade!

There is a big difference between being thirsty and dehydrated.
If people are saying they are dehydrated instead of thirsty then its them being tw4ts and nothing to do with being conned by an evil industry.

Why do so many people on here think all these companies are only out to con us, rather than that they are just/also trying to make a great product or offer a good service for our benefit and their income?

I am surprised some people on here (not aimed particularly at you Ugo) can cycle anywhere with such huge chips on their shoulders :shock:
Perhaps they should try a few energy products to help them with the effort

vimfuego

Standard thread really isn't it.

I suppose you do your 25 mile ride whilst wearing a replica pro team jersey, on a *insert big brand name here* bike and you use *insert name here* tyres too - all of which is contrary to what I do and therefore as my opinion is more valid than yours - you are both wrong and a johnny come lately fool.

Just try some gels etc on longer rides (the taster packs are cheap enough) see if it works for you and if so go with it. That and just just enjoy riding.

ugo.santalucia

Carbonator wrote:

Why do so many people on here think all these companies are only out to con us, rather than that they are just/also trying to make a great product or offer a good service for our benefit and their income?

Because they are... There is overwhelming evidence that companies indirectly sponsor medicine in return for alarming campaigns that create a need for their products.
Have a look at that enlightening BBC series "the men who made us spend". Fear is one of the key drivers used to make you buy stuff you don't need.

NeXXus

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Why do so many people on here think all these companies are only out to con us, rather than that they are just/also trying to make a great product or offer a good service for our benefit and their income?

Because they are... There is overwhelming evidence that companies indirectly sponsor medicine in return for alarming campaigns that create a need for their products.
Have a look at that enlightening BBC series "the men who made us spend". Fear is one of the key drivers used to make you buy stuff you don't need.

Do you ever tell your customers they don't need new wheels built?

vimfuego

I still believe that we all have the ability to make our own decisions and live with them.
Different people have differenet priorities and values.
What makes you happy won't work for someone else.
There is no "right" answer.
Vive la difference!

(And the media in general (including the BBC) - there's a bunch you can trust! :roll: )

Iamnot Wiggins

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

Why do so many people on here think all these companies are only out to con us, rather than that they are just/also trying to make a great product or offer a good service for our benefit and their income?

Because they are... There is overwhelming evidence that companies indirectly sponsor medicine in return for alarming campaigns that create a need for their products.
Have a look at that enlightening BBC series "the men who made us spend". Fear is one of the key drivers used to make you buy stuff you don't need.

Don't believe everything you see, Ugo. I don't need a massive TV but fear didn't make me buy it, I bought it because I wanted it! Same for a carbon bike, for example.