Froome - physically or mentally broken?

rick_chasey

mroli wrote:

Remember last year when Contador crashed in front of Froome on that descent (Froome stayed upright). No-one slags off Contador's handling skills...

Hardly being sang to the rafters for his handling though.

Looks like a N00b going downhill but he's not crashed nor looks like your postman cycling on fast forward so gets more of a break.

mroli

I wonder if he gets more of a break from English speaking audiences too because he can't be ridiculed for what he says? I think with Froome there is a little bit of familiarity breeding contempt. I wonder how they are both perceived in say Spanish speaking nations?

rick_chasey

Yeah for sure.

No chat on here at all on Jesús Hernández abandoning which is a big deal for Contador.

adr82

iainf72 wrote:

Man who witnessed crash comments

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner- ... -de-france

"I was right there when Froome went down. He slid about 50 yards. I'm not surprise he climbed off."

"He caught a little crack in the road. There was road furniture on the left and he got caught in the crack and it took his front wheel. It was nothing he could do about it. It wasn't about experience or lack of bike handling skills. It was just very slippery and he got caught in the gap and went down. It could have happened to any rider."

Hmmm. Opinion of professional rider who actually witnessed the event vs people who saw a few seconds of the aftermath on TV... that is a tricky one.

DeVlaeminck

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/sean- ... ies-ahead/

Sean Kelly's opinion of Froome's bike handling. Obviously he's a Sky hater too.

adr82

DeVlaeminck wrote:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/07/sean-kellys-tour-de-france-blog-there-are-many-uncertainties-ahead/

Sean Kelly's opinion of Froome's bike handling. Obviously he's a Sky hater too.

When did this become about "Sky hating"...?

DeVlaeminck

Just anticipating the normal accusation when someone criticises Froome.

adr82

OnYourRight wrote:

Adr82: you make some good points in your long post on page 5. Ultimately the ideal balance of risk versus energy conservation must be calculated by someone with more information than me. But some riders have race-ending crashes a lot more frequently than others. That suggests action is possible. I’d like to see this problem at least being talked about by the likes of Brailsford and Portal. Instead most people blame crashes on luck and the race organisers in about equal measure.

I think you're overstating things a bit. How many "race-ending crashes" has Froome actually had so far? A "lot more" than other GC contenders? The Dauphine one obviously affected his performance but didn't stop him finishing. Before that, when was the last time he crashed out of a race? In the end anyone can have it happen to them at any time, and to that extent it is about luck.

Thinking about the team role, I'd actually be a little surprised if a team like Sky didn't have the management doing as much as they could to encourage riders to minimise their risk... I'm reminded of a comment Brailsford apparently made as the peloton caught Sagan at the bottom of Ventoux last year - Sagan did a wheelie for the cameras, and DB was supposed to have said something along the lines of "He shouldn't have done that, he's endangering the peloton". Maybe it's the riders just not bothering to do what they're told once they're out on the road. The DSs can't keep an eye on them every minute of the race after all.

OnYourRight wrote:

Re Horner’s comments, (a) it’s odd he’s the only one to mention this crack in the road, (b) you can see and avoid cracks if you’re not riding in the middle of the bunch, and (c) not crashing when a wheel falls into a crack in the tarmac is something that can to a significant extent be learned. How can Horner deny it’s something to do with bike handling?

You can see and avoid cracks if you're on the front of the bunch. If you're at least one row back, as GC contenders would be, you usually have to follow wheels and trust the person in front to take a good line. That's why there are various hand/voice signals for group riding to relay information about hazards. Horner also implies road furniture prevented him from avoiding the crack, not to mention having the other riders in close proximity. It's also really easy to sit here and say you can learn not to crash, ignoring that: a) Froome was already having problems controlling his bike as a result of injuries from stage 4, b) a TdF peloton is something most of us have zero experience with riding in, c) the weather conditions were bad and d) dozens of other riders were falling off too (watch some of the videos ). Crashing is a lottery, Froome happened to lose (badly) this time. I don't think there's any need to read any more into it for the moment, until/unless he turns it into a habit.

jimmythecuckoo

This thread has had some good and bad moments.

From personal experience I like to think that I am quite tough but a couple of crashes last year leaving me in hospital with a fractured elbow, bruised hip and collar bone and concussion (despite wearing a helmet) have made me realise that sometimes you have to get off your bike and accept its not your day.

I think that applied to Froome. It was clearly over for him, and for that I am sad.

celbianchi

IF Froome was as badly handicapped by his injuries at the start of Stage 5 as is being touted then I would contend that he should not have started. If he can not control the bike properly he is a risk not only to himself but more importantly to his fellow professionals.

vinnymarsden

Does it need over analysing???

Froome had had 2 factors that contributed to his withdrawal…

1..Shit luck
2..Shit bike handling skills.

It really is that simple..
No one will be kicking himself more than Froome, so try not to make it scientific

It was the perfect storm…both factor 1 and 2 came together at same time…end of. LOL

Clearly shoot has been auto edited from a 4 letter word for something sounding similar!!!

oldwelshman

OnYourRight wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Sagan has crashed for the last 2 stages in a row, is he now similarly bad?

He didn’t crash yesterday. That was misreported.

But Sagan could crash a hundred times and it wouldn’t change the fact that avoiding crashes is a percentage game. You have to have everything on your side to minimise the risk. I never said knowing how to handle a bike would guarantee you didn’t crash. But over a long enough timespan it will guarantee you crash less often.

adr82 wrote:

I think Froome's problem is bad luck more than anything else this year, it's hard to imagine the crash on stage 4 didn't play some role in what happened yesterday, and that could have happened to any of the GC contenders.

You (and others) keep saying that, but why? Any number of things could have been done to avoid being four rows deep, squeezed over to the side (but not actually on the side with some room to manoeuvre), behind and too close to inexperienced riders from another team, in the first few kilometres of a nervous stage.

That’s a cosy position but not a safe position.

adr82 wrote:

Care to define "too often”?

How about this: it’s too often when a rider more often crashes out than loses due to lack of fitness or physical ability generally. In Froome’s case he almost never loses due to lack of speed when it counts. Therefore, rationally speaking, he should spend more energy in order to keep safe. And Team Sky should spend more energy and be more disciplined in keeping him safe.

Contador and Tinkoff-Saxo spent a huge effort to stay safe today. Where was Team Sky? Except for crashes and splits, I barely saw them.

Inexperienced riders? ffs it is a pro peleton, how many miles do you think the riders will have done over the last 10 years?

mm1

Have a look at the Cannondale on bike footage from Wednesday's stage, you can see where it ended for Froome. On Wednesday and again yesterday you can see riders fishtailing, struggling to stay upright and coming to grief all over the place.

oldwelshman

mm1 wrote:

Have a look at the Cannondale on bike footage from Wednesday's stage, you can see where it ended for Froome. On Wednesday and again yesterday you can see riders fishtailing, struggling to stay upright and coming to grief all over the place.

Do you have the link?

RonB

@chrisfroome: MRIs done, confirmed fractures to the left wrist & right hand. Time for some R&R...

oldwelshman

RonB wrote:

@chrisfroome: MRIs done, confirmed fractures to the left wrist & right hand. Time for some R&R...

Guess Michelle will have to do the handy work now lol

iainf72

RonB wrote:

@chrisfroome: MRIs done, confirmed fractures to the left wrist & right hand. Time for some R&R...

No no. There's nothing wrong with him physically. And he didn't get hurt in the crashes

DeVlaeminck

iainf72 wrote:

RonB wrote:

@chrisfroome: MRIs done, confirmed fractures to the left wrist & right hand. Time for some R&R...

No no. There's nothing wrong with him physically. And he didn't get hurt in the crashes

Mentally and physically broken then, the poor guy had no chance of carrying on.

tailwindhome

OnYourRight wrote:

Has Michelle Cound deleted her Twitter account?

Yeah
Must have been easier than deleted as she went

RichN95.

DeVlaeminck wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RonB wrote:

@chrisfroome: MRIs done, confirmed fractures to the left wrist & right hand. Time for some R&R...

No no. There's nothing wrong with him physically. And he didn't get hurt in the crashes

Mentally and physically broken then, the poor guy had no chance of carrying on.

Yes, both mentally and physically, but almost entirely physically.

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RonB wrote:

@chrisfroome: MRIs done, confirmed fractures to the left wrist & right hand. Time for some R&R...

No no. There's nothing wrong with him physically. And he didn't get hurt in the crashes

Mentally and physically broken then, the poor guy had no chance of carrying on.

Yes, both mentally and physically, but almost entirely physically.

Wonder what injuries were pre stage 5 and what was further damage

mroli

Can't believe that Froome couldn't carry on with a broken left wrist and a broken right hand. In my day, riders were racers and they'd fight through that pain and only get off if they were forced off...

Or, regardless of it being Froome - some respect for the fact he went out and rode despite a broken left wrist in horrible conditions and gave it a shot. Physically broken yes, but you can't question his mental toughness to do that.

tailwindhome

mroli wrote:

Can't believe that Froome couldn't carry on with a broken left wrist and a broken right hand. In my day, riders were racers and they'd fight through that pain and only get off if they were forced off....

Well.....if he was *really* British he would have carried on.

RichN95.

mroli wrote:

Can't believe that Froome couldn't carry on with a broken left wrist and a broken right hand. In my day, riders were racers and they'd fight through that pain and only get off if they were forced off...

But to what end? So he can be nursed around the course by his team in the hope it might get better? Better to draw a line under it, regroup and everyone move on. Carrying on just for the sake of it is stupid.

TheBigBean

Now I'm not saying I would have ridden on with one hand and one wrist fractured, nor that Froome should have done, but fractures that only show up on MRIs (as opposed to x-rays) are not exactly the most serious type of fracture. Anyone other than a pro sportsman would have been told "you're lucky you didn't break it, it's just a bruise, take some ibuprofen and go home and rest."

That doesn't change the fact that it probably hurt and riding cobbles was tricky.

oscarbudgie

RichN95 wrote:

mroli wrote:

Can't believe that Froome couldn't carry on with a broken left wrist and a broken right hand. In my day, riders were racers and they'd fight through that pain and only get off if they were forced off...

But to what end? So he can be nursed around the course by his team in the hope it might get better? Better to draw a line under it, regroup and everyone move on. Carrying on just for the sake of it is stupid.

Woooosh

Macaloon

TheBigBean wrote:

Now I'm not saying I would have ridden on with one hand and one wrist fractured, nor that Froome should have done, but fractures that only show up on MRIs (as opposed to x-rays) are not exactly the most serious type of fracture. Anyone other than a pro sportsman would have been told "you're lucky you didn't break it, it's just a bruise, take some ibuprofen and go home and rest."

That doesn't change the fact that it probably hurt and riding cobbles was tricky.

He's a bit too bright to ride the cobbles having binned it twice on the smooth. Losing that second opposable thumb might have been the clincher.

tim000

OnYourRight wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

He's a bit too bright to ride the cobbles having binned it twice on the smooth. Losing that second opposable thumb might have been the clincher.

Yeah, he even had to ask someone to close the car door when he got in. Shows how debilitating the pain was.

Anticlimactic, though. Hopefully they’ll let him loose in the Vuelta. Quintana versus Froome should be good.

shame for kennaugh though. wasn`t he going to be the GC rider ?

DeVlaeminck

I know we are having a bit of fun with this but if it is his scaphoid as someone speculated earlier then that but can be a tricky one to heal properly - the blood supply is poor - my other half needed a bone graft and pin to fix hers - having said that she did leave it 12 months of being in pain before getting it checked out properly which may have complicated the repair. For a cyclist though the risk of falling and reinjuring might require some kind of cast/ rigid support for the rest of this season at least.

Of course if it isn't his scaphoid none of that applies.

RichN95.

tim000 wrote:

OnYourRight wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

He's a bit too bright to ride the cobbles having binned it twice on the smooth. Losing that second opposable thumb might have been the clincher.

Yeah, he even had to ask someone to close the car door when he got in. Shows how debilitating the pain was.

Anticlimactic, though. Hopefully they’ll let him loose in the Vuelta. Quintana versus Froome should be good.

shame for kennaugh though. wasn`t he going to be the GC rider ?

It might work out well for him. A structured role as number 2 to the leader did wonders for Froome in 2011. PK was never going to be a sole leader, I wouldn't have thought.