Lee Valley Circuit...Has opened!!
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Thanks!0
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viktor wrote:Scoob84 wrote:A video I found on youtube of last weeks crit. The filmer has a close shave at 8min52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbJGqRb_cI
Video of one of the crashes in 3/4 Cat during the first night (9th July).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2t46slyqHA
That's just s**t riding. Absolutely no reason to crash there, it's not even bunched up very tightly. Even with the rider on the left squeezing over and the bump of shoulders no-one should have crashed.The rider who went down looked very panicky!0 -
+1 and that is not me in the video :P0
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That's why bumping should be practiced at low speeds - so people don't sh1t their pants and fall over.0
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Herzog wrote:That's why bumping should be practiced at low speeds - so people don't sh1t their pants and fall over.
Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
Lol at that crash...he must play football as well going down that easy
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Too many beers....0
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Looks like it will be pi$$ing it down all day tomorrow. Will the race still likely to be going ahead? That bottom hairpin at 40 km/hr will be interesting in the 4th cat's0
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JamesFree wrote:DavidJB wrote:Lol at that crash...he must play football as well going down that easy
I actually can't understand why he went down so easily, slight shoulder to shoulder then next minute bam floor!
It looks like they were going around a bend so his weight may have been off balance...speed wobble may have set it off when they touched shoulders, it also looks like their bikes made contact too. I have had this in a race, I stayed upright but the other dude hit the floor, it is easily done.0 -
That crash was as things bunched into the head wind, the camera doesn't quite capture this but fully agreed there is no need for somone to fall like a sack of spuds from that.If I know you, and I like you, you can borrow my bike box for £30 a week. PM for details.0
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So I went down there tonight for the first time after my horrific first experience. They've changed up the cats. Thrown away the e12 race and merged the 2's with the 3's and excluded the 4th's on their own. Ok, not everyone might be happy but it seems to have done the job. Noodle bike handlers with noodlers, bit more competent folk together - getting down to business and no more Richardson Trek domination swooping up points.
Things were running really smooth. It was being supported by club members of (Dulwich?) and the commissaire was top notch (know him from previous RR's I've done, but never caught his name). Very well made announcement before race on huge megaphone. Wristbands handed out to main race (2,3). Rules and consequences clearly stated, time gaps given during race and overall superbly managed.
Really impressed. So impressed that I think it has surpassed any other crit experience I've had where they've ran several races at once. That includes (Crystal Palace and Hillingdon).
Unfortunately, accidents happen, a crash did occur (right in front of me). I was able to read it before the riders collided together which allowed me to avoid it. Also staying relaxed (although I did let out an F word), did help.
Caught it on the GoPro, will throw up a clip later.0 -
TakeTurns - so does that mean there are now 2 groups, 2/3 and 4? If you an E/1 you are effectively excluded from the race?0
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Here's yesterday's crash: https://vimeo.com/103381883
Yes hatone, that's correct. The women's race is of course still there too, sorry about not mentioning that one. There is also a rider limit of 60.0 -
So is the 4 race now considered regional C+ with points available?0
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TakeTurns wrote:Here's yesterday's crash: https://vimeo.com/103381883
Yes hatone, that's correct. The women's race is of course still there too, sorry about not mentioning that one. There is also a rider limit of 60.
Thanks for sharing. A really close shave there for you.
That's one reason why I try to avoid riding in mix pack or beyond. In all my races I've stayed in the top 10, 90% of the time, and reduces the chance of getting involved in a crash.0 -
Did anyone report that muppet from Pretorius to the commissaires for going cross-country and cutting back onto the circuit and taking the others out? I see he was determined to move up on the inside while not actually having the space to do so. If you end up on the grass, at least have the skills to get back in without swerving across people. :roll: Absolute idiot piece of riding. I hope he's reading this thread.
Lots of people overlapping their front wheels... cue cries of "someone moved off their line and took me out!" I hear it all the time in women's racing.
Your front wheel = your responsibility. Don't sit 6 inches overlapping someone else's rear wheel in a strung-out bunch if you don't want to end up on the deck.
Crashes like that make me furious.0 -
I can't work how you didn't manage to get caught up in that - a very lucky escape.0
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maryka wrote:Did anyone report that muppet from Pretorius to the commissaires for going cross-country and cutting back onto the circuit and taking the others out? I see he was determined to move up on the inside while not actually having the space to do so. If you end up on the grass, at least have the skills to get back in without swerving across people. :roll: Absolute idiot piece of riding. I hope he's reading this thread.
Lots of people overlapping their front wheels... cue cries of "someone moved off their line and took me out!" I hear it all the time in women's racing.
Your front wheel = your responsibility. Don't sit 6 inches overlapping someone else's rear wheel in a strung-out bunch if you don't want to end up on the deck.
Crashes like that make me furious.
Spot on there Maryka, both with observation of the crash and your point re overlapping wheels.0 -
Great video - thanks for sharing.
The course looks nice- despite me saying my racing days are way behind me, going along for a couple of races is feeling strangely appealing. Must resist the urge.....
Agree with Maryka, the guy that hopped back onto the track was in the wrong. I have a go at my 5 year old when he pulls that stunt on a family bike ride in the park, I don't expect it from an adult in a race with 20+ bikes around within touching distance. As for overlapping wheels, not only does he do it running the risk of getting a face full of gravel, he risks everyone behind them getting wiped out too. Glad you managed to dodge a crash, not quite sure how you did !!!
Post edited to tone down a few comments, but the underlying message is the same.........0 -
Guy needs a serious talking too.
I'm really surprised you're allowed to record video...BC South and Central go mad about it.0 -
I'm with @DavidJB. I'm very surprised that the organisers, if they're aware, are happy with videos being published online. Personally I've made mistakes in races, I don't think any have resulted in others coming down but I've hit the deck hard. Were one of these mistakes published online then I'd be asking the producer for a copy of the release form, in fact I don't think I'd be happy being featured at all. @TakeTurns do you ask for permission to film the races?
As an aside I doubt that anyone posting in this thread is an absolute paragon of race craft, I don't think such a think exists. I hope that the posters who're having a go at someone who's easily identifiable, calling them an idiot, muppet and claim they need a slap have never made a mistake nor fallen off a bike. I understand the sentiment but the language being used is extremely condescending. Educate don't belittle.0 -
Pross wrote:Herzog wrote:I can't work how you didn't manage to get caught up in that - a very lucky escape.
Same here, good skillz! Did you get back to the bunch?
Myself and another managed to get back on, a good chunk were stuck behind though.DavidJB wrote:Guy needs a serious talking too.
I'm really surprised you're allowed to record video...BC South and Central go mad about it.
BC states that unnecessary equipment isn't permitted. That's what I've been told by one race organiser. Yes you could class a gopro as unnecessary. However I've had coms/organisers who've told me not to fiddle with it and it's fine. On the very rare occasion (once) was I told to remove it, solely based on the 'rules'. Most of the time when I line up I'll be at the front and if/when organisers are checking people's bikes I've never been told off for it.Maglia wrote:I'm with @DavidJB. I'm very surprised that the organisers, if they're aware, are happy with videos being published online.
You're creating a storm in a tea cup. I'm not exactly saying that the race is crash filled and therefore people shouldn't go down there. In fact I gave the organisers massive props before I posted the video and have stated what a huge improvement they've made since the start. Why would the organisers be unhappy about it? Crash's happen all the time, that's the reality of racing and maybe someone can learn from this rider's mistake. Are you against that?Maglia wrote:Personally I've made mistakes in races, I don't think any have resulted in others coming down but I've hit the deck hard. Were one of these mistakes published online then I'd be asking the producer for a copy of the release form, in fact I don't think I'd be happy being featured at all.
Nobody's privacy has been breached here. The rider who 'caused' the accident imo wasn't completely at fault. Nobody has flamed the club which he rides for and I'm sure there's a lot to be learned from his mistake. Unless I've been told not to film there's no reason why I can't. I haven't posted the video to humiliate anyone, however if it were to turn into a rider/club bashing thread then I'd do the considerate thing and pull it down.
Now for what ACTUALLY happened. The rider didn't 'jump' or 'hop' back onto the course dangerously. His front wheel was cut off by the rider in front as the group compressed towards the left for the turn. This resulted in him having to take evasive action by going onto the grass. Between the grass and the course is a small curb. Perhaps he didn't notice this because of the grass being taller than the curb. So when he tried to get back onto the course at speed, his rear wheel momentarily struggled to push over the curb, which resulted in a mini-slingshot which threw him towards the right. He's a strong guy (85kg) and so when he made contact, the Dynamo rider's foot immediately ejected from his pedal and lost his balance.
I personally know the rider myself and didn't realise it was him who was in the crash till I watched it at home. I've seen the crash in slow-mo several times and also noticed that his front wheel bends in half as the dynamo rider goes over it. That's what caused the loud bang (not sure why the gopro didn't pick that up). My sympathy to all those who were caught in the crash, but nothing serious as the race continued on as normal.0 -
What happens if a video shows a single rider to be at fault/potentially negligent and the person with damages decides to take it to court to try and apportion blame?
Not having a dig, just curious of the implications. I've enjoyed the odd novice crit video that talks through safety and technique but not sure crashes and near misses are wise. They sit uneasy, along with the helmet cam commuter brigade.0 -
Privacy-wise, following a cursory Google, I now know the name of the "muppet" & "idiot" who "needs a right slap" as a result of your film identifying him.
I'm all for making racing safer but I'm sceptical about the benefits of posting crash videos, there's something extremely ghoulish about it. The only thing I could imagine anyone's going to learn from that is don't ride on the grass & as you admit video doesn't tell the whole story of the crash nor does it tell you much about the race. You can dress it up as educational but where's the balance? Where are the bits showing how it's done properly? It's a weird sort of rubbernecking that cycling's better off without. Just my opinion...0 -
Sorry, but he allowed his front wheel to overlap another's rear (whether that rider squeezed him to the side or not -- had his wheel not been overlapping, then the squeeze wouldn't have happened) and then when he hit the grass he decided to try to get back on the circuit rather than riding along the grass until everyone was past and jumping back on where it was safe and he had no risk to take out other riders. That caused the crash. HE caused the crash. It was stupid and selfish riding, period, and I would say it right to his face too -- not just hiding on an internet forum.TakeTurns wrote:Now for what ACTUALLY happened. The rider didn't 'jump' or 'hop' back onto the course dangerously. His front wheel was cut off by the rider in front as the group compressed towards the left for the turn. This resulted in him having to take evasive action by going onto the grass. Between the grass and the course is a small curb. Perhaps he didn't notice this because of the grass being taller than the curb. So when he tried to get back onto the course at speed, his rear wheel momentarily struggled to push over the curb, which resulted in a mini-slingshot which threw him towards the right. He's a strong guy (85kg) and so when he made contact, the Dynamo rider's foot immediately ejected from his pedal and lost his balance.
I personally know the rider myself and didn't realise it was him who was in the crash till I watched it at home. I've seen the crash in slow-mo several times and also noticed that his front wheel bends in half as the dynamo rider goes over it. That's what caused the loud bang (not sure why the gopro didn't pick that up). My sympathy to all those who were caught in the crash, but nothing serious as the race continued on as normal.
I don't know or care who he is, but even if one other person reading this thread learns not to do that and saves another crash from happening in the same circumstances, then job done.0 -
Actually if you watch the video he could have continued on the grass and he would have popped out on to tarmac on the bridge mere seconds later!
And yeah I've crashed...I've made mistakes and almost caused a crash a couple of times over the years but it's no secret the standard of racing in the past 3 years has gone way downhill.0 -
It's easy to say in hindsight what he could have done. Matter of fact is he didn't anticipate the way his bike would react once he'd gotten over the curb. Which IMO is rider error over reckless riding.
@maryka
I don't know if you've ridden the course or not. But maybe if you did and had experienced that part of the course on the inside you'd have a bit more understanding. Going up towards the bend there was plenty of space for him to move into. It's not really a corner either, so you can't say he shouldn't be coming up on the inside. It's just that most guys don't hold their line very well which pushes the group towards the inside. He most likely knew that the gap was going to get shut as the group squeezed in, therefore he slipped back a little, but not completely (yes, he was still overlapping the wheel slightly). However the rider slightly ahead closed the gap so much so that it pushed him off completely. Which IMO is lack of spatial awareness. That's another debate about riders not caring for people around them.
Yes he could have rolled on the grass and waited for everyone to rush through. But who wants to be at the back of a race trying to catch back on? There was a reasonable amount of space available for him to get back in. If it wasn't for the curb he would have been safe and sound. But unfortunately for him his handling let him down.0 -
I've not ridden that circuit, no. I've ridden Hillingdon ACW (famous for the shunt through the chicanes) and Hog Hill (where people on the inside of the bend at the top of the hill often get pushed onto the grass in an aggressive race). I've been victims of both situations, yet I've never managed to take down riders around me at either circuit in my reaction to it.
But listen to yourself. "Who wants to be at the back of the race trying to catch on?" how about "who wants to be on the deck because someone overestimated his skills and did something dangerous in a race?"
Safety of the bunch and all the riders is the responsibility of all the riders. Boo hoo I got pushed onto the grass, oh wait I'll just compound the problem by trying and failing to jump a curb to get back on the circuit, thus taking down several riders who weren't part of the original problem. Can't you understand how selfish and stupid that is? Racing is a privilege, not a right. If you ride like you have the right to do whatever in response to whatever happens to you, then you've got the wrong attitude and don't deserve to be racing in a bunch.
Learn the skills, learn the spatial awareness, most of all learn that you are just one rider in a bunch of several dozen and what you do affects everyone around and behind you. So you don't just make sudden moves and then put your hands up and say "rider error" when in this case it was completely preventable and in no way an "accident".0
