Lee Valley Circuit...Has opened!!

24

Comments

  • Scoob84
    Scoob84 Posts: 76
    A video I found on youtube of last weeks crit. The filmer has a close shave at 8min52

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbJGqRb_cI
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Has there been a race yet without a crash?

    Because Hilingdon has a bad reputation but I've raced there maybe 5 times without incident.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    They appear to have decided to get rid of races for E/1st category riders going forward - poor form IMO.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • joshvoulters
    joshvoulters Posts: 97
    okgo wrote:
    They appear to have decided to get rid of races for E/1st category riders going forward - poor form IMO.

    Think they're trying it out for three weeks- not sure if it's a long term decision.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    okgo wrote:
    They appear to have decided to get rid of races for E/1st category riders going forward - poor form IMO.

    LOL...so stupid
  • Scoob84
    Scoob84 Posts: 76
    Whats the format next week then? One of the chaps told me they might be starting the 3/4's earlier as there won't be any juniors racing.

    FAO iPete - no crashes last night. But a bit of a shambles with the 3/4's caching up with the E12's and the 3/4's chase group being caught up by the ladies who were going about the same pace.
  • hatone
    hatone Posts: 228
    I twice emailed the organiser (Mike) earlier on in the week but never responded. Doesn't exactly fill me with much confidence in terms of how they manage or market the event. Why?

    I raced at Eelmore last night instead - even though there were no crashes, the 3/4s catching the E12s despite being lapped does cause a lot of confusion, as I can imagine at the Lee Valley circuit. I guess with the crit racing, given how short the circuit is, there bout to be a clash somewhere along the line....

    Though I agree about one thing, the colour band on numbers should be clearly distinguished, so we know who's what and where.
  • Scoob84
    Scoob84 Posts: 76
    I guess he's still trying to figure out what their up to next week. He responded to myself yesterday when i enquired about the cost of entering on the line so he does at least respond to some of his emails.
  • jzed
    jzed Posts: 2,926
    I'm not sure I fancy riding a 4th Cat only race. Just getting used of keeping up with the front of the 3/4's and whilst unlikely to score points, and there's still some poor riding at times, think its moved on loads in the last 4 weeks and I'm pretty sure safer than a 4th only race.

    They do need to monitor the races coming together better (maybe setting the E12s off a little bit earlier and using the shortcut to keep the races apart a bit better). Also they want to watch out for lapped riders jumping back in. Last night around 20 of the 3/4's split around 15-20 minutes in. We caught part of the E12 race causing us to sit up and be neutralised for a couple of laps. By the time we got going again riders behind had caught back on and it appeared a load of lapped riders jumped back in. I may as well have not been on the limit hanging on. Same the week before.
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    If the 3/4s are catching the elites they should just run it as a single race E1234.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    That would be horrific.

    I doubt the catches happen that much, the two times I raced there we were not caught by 3/4's, and were constantly passing pinged 3/4's who got the real arse if you told them to keep left/right as we went by.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Tom Dean wrote:
    If the 3/4s are catching the elites they should just run it as a single race E1234.
    They could do that, but the BC rules say it has to be a handicap. Not sure how feasible that is at Velo Park? I believe SERRL was running all-cats handicaps at Cyclopark though with some success.
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • Scoob84
    Scoob84 Posts: 76
    In fairness its hard to figure out if the shout of "LEFT, LEFT, LEEFFFTTT" means stay left or i'm passing to your left. This should be made universal as the instruction changes between riders.

    In the case of what happened yesterday, the E12's should have used the cut through.
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    okgo wrote:
    That would be horrific.
    Why?
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Tom Dean wrote:
    If the 3/4s are catching the elites they should just run it as a single race E1234.

    If the 3/4's are catching the E/1's then I'm not surprised the E/1 race is being dropped...
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    Last night the E12s were caught by the 34s, then pulled away again and lapped them, then were caught again. All a bit confusing. I think the issue is that the E12 race is a lot more tactical and fast / slow whereas the 34s its just a MASSIVE bunch cruising around at a fair whack. When we did get caught it was really noticeable how easy it was to sit in compared to our race.

    As for getting rid of the E1s, I don't see the logic. They talked about doing that at Hog Hill to increase the number of participants but IMO there are already too many 34s racing - they should be looking at that rather than getting rid of the E1s as the E12 racing has generally been pretty good.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/41991871@N ... otostream/
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Tom Dean wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    That would be horrific.
    Why?

    Presumably because the 3/4 riders are far too dangerous for 1/2 riders to have to mix with even if they may have 20 years more experience than said 1/2 riders.

    (I'm a bitter veteran 4th cat with years of racing experience but mainly back before 4th cats were invented and only the first 6 in a race got points - now too unfit to move up :oops: ).
  • Maglia
    Maglia Posts: 24
    BigMat wrote:
    Last night the E12s were caught by the 34s, then pulled away again and lapped them, then were caught again. All a bit confusing. I think the issue is that the E12 race is a lot more tactical and fast / slow whereas the 34s its just a MASSIVE bunch cruising around at a fair whack. When we did get caught it was really noticeable how easy it was to sit in compared to our race.

    As for getting rid of the E1s, I don't see the logic. They talked about doing that at Hog Hill to increase the number of participants but IMO there are already too many 34s racing - they should be looking at that rather than getting rid of the E1s as the E12 racing has generally been pretty good.

    This I don't follow, why would you want to cut the number of 3/4s? The front of the 3/4s race was quick (43kmh vs 44kmh for the E/1/2) crash free and challenging enough. The worst mistake I saw was someone in the E/1/2 race catching a pedal and almost coming down as the 3/4s merged with them. Sure enough a load of people in the 3/4s were lapped but they were pulled out with five to go.

    We complain about inexperienced racers being dangerous but I'd much rather the 4ths had their own race and there was a 10 race qualification period before a rider could move up a category. Personally I'm always going to get demolished by people like Russell Hampton as physically I find myself stuck in the netherworld between 2nd and 3rd categories. Regional As suit me down to the ground, that doesn't mean I'm not ambitious but 200 points to get to first cat is a real stretch.

    In an ideal World obviously there'd be enough racing to accommodate everyone but I remember a couple of years ago when they cut the number of points available for mid-week crits. E/1/2 field size suddenly nose-dived and there were weeks at Hog Hill with less than 15 people in the senior race. Should organisers promote the quality of the field over the quantity of racers who're likely to race? I can't be objective about that but I think it's hard to argue for the former. At the end of it all the decision lies with the promoter, don't like it? Then organise some racing yourself...
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Maglia wrote:
    We complain about inexperienced racers being dangerous but I'd much rather the 4ths had their own race and there was a 10 race qualification period before a rider could move up a category.

    I'd like to see more 4th races too but these were stopped at Hillingdon because after so many evening races so many people moved up to 3rd cat that numbers dwindled (apparently) so they changed to 3/4 format.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Better answer would be to increase the points 4th's need to get to become 3rd's (maybe 20?) I know they changed it to 12 this year so you couldn't win once and move up but think it needs to be more.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Pross wrote:
    Tom Dean wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    That would be horrific.
    Why?

    Presumably because the 3/4 riders are far too dangerous for 1/2 riders to have to mix with even if they may have 20 years more experience than said 1/2 riders.

    (I'm a bitter veteran 4th cat with years of racing experience but mainly back before 4th cats were invented and only the first 6 in a race got points - now too unfit to move up :oops: ).

    Well, yes, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near some of the 4th cats I've seen racing there. Also because it would be an utter waste of time for the 3\4 lot to turn up if it was just e1234 as they'd not get much of a chance to properly race as would be a clinging on session likely.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    None of us wants to race with dangerous riders.

    Whether it would be a waste of time for the 3/4s in the same race as the E12s: a) the 3/4s are catching the E12s so it's not that hard. b) any rider looking to pick up points or go for the win regularly (i.e. race 'properly') is going to be moving up to 2nd anyway. c) it's a midweek training crit - you should be glad of a clinging on session.

    it's moot as per Maryka's post BC do not allow it. Maybe something like what they did at Hillingdon where 3rd cats had the choice of riding either race would be better. Increasing the numbers in the senior race might tend to even out the pace, reducing the chance of the 'slower' race catching up, and you would have less chance of crashes in the 3/4 with a smaller and slower bunch.
  • hatone
    hatone Posts: 228
    Not sure I agree with E12s being 'not that hard'. Often the E12s do more laps so tend to hold back on pace which allows the 3/4 to catch up, especially on a shorter 1 mile circuit like this (same at Eelmore).

    How hard a race will be, whatever category, boils down to who 'rocks up on the day'.

    You'll find the level of experience, attendance and fitness levels of riders varies week by week so difficult to judge how quickly (or not) a group catches one another.
  • Scoob84
    Scoob84 Posts: 76
    The format should stay as it is, but maybe the organisers should try and use the cut through to greater effect to keep the races separate. There are plenty of 4th cat riders already (including myself) and the bunch doesn't need to get any bigger than it already is.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Tom Dean wrote:
    None of us wants to race with dangerous riders.

    Whether it would be a waste of time for the 3/4s in the same race as the E12s: a) the 3/4s are catching the E12s so it's not that hard. b) any rider looking to pick up points or go for the win regularly (i.e. race 'properly') is going to be moving up to 2nd anyway. c) it's a midweek training crit - you should be glad of a clinging on session.

    it's moot as per Maryka's post BC do not allow it. Maybe something like what they did at Hillingdon where 3rd cats had the choice of riding either race would be better. Increasing the numbers in the senior race might tend to even out the pace, reducing the chance of the 'slower' race catching up, and you would have less chance of crashes in the 3/4 with a smaller and slower bunch.

    It is far harder. Regardless of avg speed, you should well know that measuring the difficulty of a race by avg speed is a pointless exercise.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    We are talking about two races happening at the same time on the same circuit. I know average speed isn't everything and I have raced in E1234s. I just don't know how you manage the situation when you have the 'slow' group catching the fast.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Tom Dean wrote:
    We are talking about two races happening at the same time on the same circuit. I know average speed isn't everything and I have raced in E1234s. I just don't know how you manage the situation when you have the 'slow' group catching the fast.

    The comm shouts at the E12's that they'll be stopped and neutralised for a lap if the 34's get within 30 seconds of them...
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • viktor
    viktor Posts: 8
    Scoob84 wrote:
    A video I found on youtube of last weeks crit. The filmer has a close shave at 8min52

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbJGqRb_cI

    Video of one of the crashes in 3/4 Cat during the first night (9th July).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2t46slyqHA
  • davidcarter20
    davidcarter20 Posts: 7
    Thinking of heading down Wednesday night, does anyone have any details of parking? Is there any at the circuit and does it cost?

    If not im guessing the westfield centre is the best bet
  • jzed
    jzed Posts: 2,926
    Loads of parking directly outside and free.

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