Whey Protein
dinyull
Posts: 2,979
Just wanting people's opinions on taking Whey Protein.
I don't race, just ride purely for fun but always pushing myself and wanting to improve.
Currently doing 2 50-60 mile rides at the weekend @ about 18.5mph ave and 2 20 mile rides during the week @ about 19.5mph ave.
Would I see any benefits from adding Whey Protein shakes (or the like) to my diet?
I eat a pretty balanced diet, just looking to improve.
I don't race, just ride purely for fun but always pushing myself and wanting to improve.
Currently doing 2 50-60 mile rides at the weekend @ about 18.5mph ave and 2 20 mile rides during the week @ about 19.5mph ave.
Would I see any benefits from adding Whey Protein shakes (or the like) to my diet?
I eat a pretty balanced diet, just looking to improve.
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Comments
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madasahattersley wrote:Nah not really. It's ALWAYS better to get protein from a natural source. Lots of people are far too obsessed with getting in obscene amounts of protein. I bet if you kept track of you diet for a week you'd really struggle to get any less than recommended. That's what I found anyway.
+1. Its incredibly difficult to not get enough protein in a decent diet. If you eat meat and/or fish, some or most days, then you'll almost certainly get getting enough if not too much. There's protein in most non meat/fish things as well - milk, cheese, eggs, pasta, bread, rice, beans, nuts, seeds, some veg. Fruit (and most processed sugary crap) is low in protein.
On a vegetarian diet (at least a quality one anyway) it's still hard to go short, and even a vegan diet, planned properly, can easily meet your needs.0 -
dgstewart wrote:madasahattersley wrote:Nah not really. It's ALWAYS better to get protein from a natural source. Lots of people are far too obsessed with getting in obscene amounts of protein. I bet if you kept track of you diet for a week you'd really struggle to get any less than recommended. That's what I found anyway.
+1. Its incredibly difficult to not get enough protein in a decent diet. If you eat meat and/or fish, some or most days, then you'll almost certainly get getting enough if not too much. There's protein in most non meat/fish things as well - milk, cheese, eggs, pasta, bread, rice, beans, nuts, seeds, some veg. Fruit (and most processed sugary crap) is low in protein.
On a vegetarian diet (at least a quality one anyway) it's still hard to go short, and even a vegan diet, planned properly, can easily meet your needs.
Whey protein is a waste product from cheese making. Much of it comes by the ton very cheap from China.
You don't need it, don't waste your money. It's so cheap they feed livestock on it but cyclists pay much more.0 -
Dinyull wrote:Just wanting people's opinions on taking Whey Protein.
I don't race, just ride purely for fun but always pushing myself and wanting to improve.
Currently doing 2 50-60 mile rides at the weekend @ about 18.5mph ave and 2 20 mile rides during the week @ about 19.5mph ave.
Would I see any benefits from adding Whey Protein shakes (or the like) to my diet?
I eat a pretty balanced diet, just looking to improve.
Just to give a balanced opinion I use whey protein, especially in a recovery drink after a long or strenuous ride. 3:1 ratio of maltodextrin (60g) to whey protein (20g) in milk (350ml). It definitely helps to speed recovery and everyone else I ride with thinks the same. I would suggest you get some "For Goodness Shakes" from Tescos and try it out yourself. They are a bit expensive but if you do notice a difference and you think it's worthwhile then you can order maltodextrin and whey protein in bulk much cheaper from MyProtein.Nah not really. It's ALWAYS better to get protein from a natural source.
LOL! Like whey protein doesn't come from a "natural" source and intensively farmed chicken or soy beans do.0 -
If you are going to come in from a ride where your muscles have been stressed and can't eat then taking a shake is a wise idea. If you can take on the protein via some food in the short post workout window then great, no point doubling up.
I never used to use shakes/protein bars even though the coaches kept telling me I should, however after my training (across multiple sports) went down hill (legs just wouldn't recover quick enough/ felt too drained) I started using shakes for recovery and it has helped.
A shake with water works out at about 25 -30p a pop should cost be an issue.
Is it the be all and end all of recovery and training, no, can it help yes. Would it help you? Quite possibly.
Should you buy some, avoid unflavored unless you really want to add your own ingredients.0 -
madasahattersley wrote:hypster wrote:Nah not really. It's ALWAYS better to get protein from a natural source.
LOL! Like whey protein doesn't come from a "natural" source and intensively farmed chicken or soy beans do.
Do you genuinely not understand the difference between between meat/dairy/vegetables (natural sources) and powdered shake supplements, or are you just being difficult?
I guess I'm just being difficult unless you don't understand that whey protein comes as a by-product of the cheese making process and meat/dairy/vegetables are subject to all sorts of human "additives" like antibiotics/steroids/insecticides etc. etc. Yum, yum, very natural.0 -
I used to take a Reflex whey protein after rides and training and found without it I really struggled to recover before the next session. The standard whey protein from Reflex was very sweet and I found I was getting a bit curvy around the edges which was not good so I now take a diet whey after strenuous exercise, after about 2 months of use my fat levels have dropped to an acceptable level and my strength and endurance has increased by a large amount. This could be just down to the amount of training I do but whatever it is I certainly feel better for it.
Whatever you do there will always be some people who say don't and some who say do, make your own mind up and if its not for you then you can always change.0 -
I have to admit to changing my opinion on this subject. I used to think that getting everything from "natural" products was the best idea but now use whey just before, during and just after exercise.
Couple of things changed my mind.
- The video below, which goes into considerable detail about nutrition especially it's timing. Whey is better than other alternatives because its so rapidly processed by the body. This means it does the things you want it to do more quickly and this is important because it helps prevent fatigue during exercise and speeds up adaptation (afterwards which, at the end of the day, is what nutrition is all about.
(Regardless of your opinion on the matter I do suggest watching this, the recommendations in terms of macronutrients/timing will apply even if you decide not to use whey. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnCmTTNx_Jo&index=2&list=WL)
- It's just easier to handle in terms of getting the quantities right/eating on the bike/ensuring consistency when you are travelling/competing in events where aspects of the timing are not under your control. (e,g. you have to sit around for an hour or so at the start and queue for everything during and after)
If you use whey watch out because, as noted above not all products are the same. I use ones that contain hydrolysed whey and minimum carbs, preferring to have the choice about the nature and quantity of the latter.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Good webinar above, I did find the first 30 minutes and some sections towards the end a little hard to get through, well worth a watch when people have time though.The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.0
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When I read threads like these, I always go back to basics...
" what would Tommy Godwin do/eat?" it certainly was not protein shakes...
He who rode incredible mileages per day to set the record, back in the day.. noteworthy to mention that he also rode at intensities that would make 99% of this forum's readership weep with pain...
there is no free ticket to be being a better cyclist if that is your aim.0 -
JGSI wrote:When I read threads like these, I always go back to basics...
" what would Tommy Godwin do/eat?" it certainly was not protein shakes...
He who rode incredible mileages per day to set the record, back in the day.. noteworthy to mention that he also rode at intensities that would make 99% of this forum's readership weep with pain...
there is no free ticket to be being a better cyclist if that is your aim.
Well maybe he could have gone further and faster if he had have done, who knows? Technology, training and sports nutrition are constantly progressing otherwise World records wouldn't continually get broken. I agree, there is no free ticket to being a better cyclist but there's no point in living in the past if there is an advantage to be had that lets you be as good as you can be.
I think the problem with these type of issues is there is no "one size fits all". Different people have different physical abilities, tastes and priorities and so what works for one for whatever reason, doesn't necessarily suit another.0 -
You don't need extra protein, you get plenty in a normal diet. Whey is a wast product from cheese making. The Whey Protein Research Consortium spends a lot of money funding research and finding new markets for whey. Classic case of big business flogging a waste product no one needs to the gullible. PepsiCo who own Gatorade are a partner, so is Danone.
http://www.wheyconsortium.org/Pages/Home.aspx
The Whey Protein Research Consortium is an international partnership of dairy cooperatives, associations, processors and multinational companies working together to grow the market for whey protein. Our mission is to create incremental global usage of whey proteins through the development and documentation of whey protein’s health and wellness benefits.
The goal of the integrated research efforts of the Consortium is to develop a generic, non-proprietary body of knowledge, establishing measurable health and wellness benefits of whey proteins that will create a scientific foundation for new marketing opportunities through the development of scientific support for health, qualified health, and/or structure function claims.
On-going clinical studies also aim to provide a scientific foundation for the superiority of whey proteins over competing non-dairy proteins in delivering consumer benefits.0 -
Whey protein is very good value for money."You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0
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http://hprc-online.org/dietary-suppleme ... erformance
You don't need it. Little evidence if any, certainly not good quality research to prove it works better than any other protein. You get plenty in a decent diet.0 -
It's convenient to use for the recovery 'window' just after a hard/long ride. It seems to make sense to do so IMO."You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0
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Stalin wrote:http://hprc-online.org/dietary-supplements/hprc-articles/is-whey-protein-helpful-to-optimize-performance
You don't need it. Little evidence if any, certainly not good quality research to prove it works better than any other protein. You get plenty in a decent diet.
So, if there is no difference then you might as well use whey protein because you would still have to buy any other form of protein anyway and as Charlie Potatoes points out, it's more convenient in a recovery drink. Everything I have read says that a recovery drink containing high GI CHO and whey protein consumed ASAP after strenuous exercise speeds recovery.
The article you link to says:
The combination of how efficiently whey supplies protein to the body, its rapid absorption rate (10g/h), associated gains in strength and muscle mass, and improved rate of muscle recovery suggests that whey protein may yield better results than other types of protein.0 -
hypster wrote:Stalin wrote:http://hprc-online.org/dietary-supplements/hprc-articles/is-whey-protein-helpful-to-optimize-performance
You don't need it. Little evidence if any, certainly not good quality research to prove it works better than any other protein. You get plenty in a decent diet.
So, if there is no difference then you might as well use whey protein because you would still have to buy any other form of protein anyway and as Charlie Potatoes points out, it's more convenient in a recovery drink. Everything I have read says that a recovery drink containing high GI CHO and whey protein consumed ASAP after strenuous exercise speeds recovery.
The article you link to says:
The combination of how efficiently whey supplies protein to the body, its rapid absorption rate (10g/h), associated gains in strength and muscle mass, and improved rate of muscle recovery suggests that whey protein may yield better results than other types of protein.
Crucial word is 'May'. It also says,
. ""However, sufficient protein intake can be met with a diet of natural foods. Dairy products—especially Greek yogurt—are high in whey protein.""
And ""Beware of other ingredients in protein supplements. According to Consumer Reports, trace amounts of heavy metals, including arsenic and cadmium, have been found in 15 leading protein powder products."""
Honestly why not eat real food? If you think you need to take on protein in the 30 minutes after training, eat a protein snack.
Anyway these whey powders make a disgusting drink. Mind you most people these days eat garbage and have no idea what real food tastes like so probably actually like the taste.
If you want a high protein snack, try a pint of milk, a hard boiled egg, followed by a yoghurt. Or a sardine sandwich, or a Gerald Ratner special prawn sandwich.
If you get your protein from real food like eggs or prawns or nuts, you get many other important nutrients as well as protein. e.g.
Shrimp, large, steamed
4.00 oz
(113.40 grams)Calories: 135
GI: very low
NutrientDRI/DV
selenium102%
vitamin B1278.3%
protein51.6%
phosphorus49.5%
choline36.1%
copper32.2%
vitamin B319%
zinc16.8%
vitamin E16.6%
vitamin B615.8%
omega-3 fats14.1%
pantothenic acid11.8%
vitamin A11.3%0 -
Stalin wrote:Honestly why not eat real food? If you think you need to take on protein in the 30 minutes after training, eat a protein snack.
Anyway these whey powders make a disgusting drink. Mind you most people these days eat garbage and have no idea what real food tastes like so probably actually like the taste.
If you want a high protein snack, try a pint of milk, a hard boiled egg, followed by a yoghurt. Or a sardine sandwich, or a Gerald Ratner special prawn sandwich.
If you get your protein from real food like eggs or prawns or nuts, you get many other important nutrients as well as protein. e.g.
You have totally missed all of the points made.
Your 'high protein snacks' are likely to miss the glycogen window because of the time taken for the body to process.
Everyone eats 'real food' as well.
Why does Whey protein make you so angry that you have to pretend not to understand this?"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Because TrevCharlie Potatoes wrote:Stalin wrote:Honestly why not eat real food? If you think you need to take on protein in the 30 minutes after training, eat a protein snack.
Anyway these whey powders make a disgusting drink. Mind you most people these days eat garbage and have no idea what real food tastes like so probably actually like the taste.
If you want a high protein snack, try a pint of milk, a hard boiled egg, followed by a yoghurt. Or a sardine sandwich, or a Gerald Ratner special prawn sandwich.
If you get your protein from real food like eggs or prawns or nuts, you get many other important nutrients as well as protein. e.g.
You have totally missed all of the points made.
Your 'high protein snacks' are likely to miss the glycogen window because of the time taken for the body to process.
Everyone eats 'real food' as well.
Why does Whey protein make you so angry that you have to pretend not to understand this?And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
Charlie Potatoes wrote:Stalin wrote:Honestly why not eat real food? If you think you need to take on protein in the 30 minutes after training, eat a protein snack.
Anyway these whey powders make a disgusting drink. Mind you most people these days eat garbage and have no idea what real food tastes like so probably actually like the taste.
If you want a high protein snack, try a pint of milk, a hard boiled egg, followed by a yoghurt. Or a sardine sandwich, or a Gerald Ratner special prawn sandwich.
If you get your protein from real food like eggs or prawns or nuts, you get many other important nutrients as well as protein. e.g.
You have totally missed all of the points made.
Your 'high protein snacks' are likely to miss the glycogen window because of the time taken for the body to process.
Everyone eats 'real food' as well.
Why does Whey protein make you so angry that you have to pretend not to understand this?
Exactly. Well put!0 -
Charlie Potatoes wrote:Stalin wrote:Honestly why not eat real food? If you think you need to take on protein in the 30 minutes after training, eat a protein snack.
Anyway these whey powders make a disgusting drink. Mind you most people these days eat garbage and have no idea what real food tastes like so probably actually like the taste.
If you want a high protein snack, try a pint of milk, a hard boiled egg, followed by a yoghurt. Or a sardine sandwich, or a Gerald Ratner special prawn sandwich.
If you get your protein from real food like eggs or prawns or nuts, you get many other important nutrients as well as protein. e.g.
You have totally missed all of the points made.
Your 'high protein snacks' are likely to miss the glycogen window because of the time taken for the body to process.
Everyone eats 'real food' as well.
Why does Whey protein make you so angry that you have to pretend not to understand this?
Guys, it isn't glycogen window but metabolic window. This is a myth anyway. It makes no difference between 0 to 3 hours.
Don't fall for the marketing hype. Why do get so angry when someone points out that big business has hyped whey to create new markets for a waste product of cheese making? Do you think the sellers of whey sports products quote all the research? Do you think they don't fund the research? Where is the independent evidence? Is it placebo controlled double blind and a decent size sample?
The sports supplement industry has distorted science, they have bought it. Look where Asker Jeukendrup works -Gatorade.0 -
Read below the benefits you get from joining the Whey Research Consortium. Note the comments about reading research before it is published and making decisions about the direction of the research.
A United Effort
The Whey Protein Research Consortium is an international partnership of dairy cooperatives, associations, processors and multinational companies working together to grow the market for whey protein. Our mission is to create incremental global usage of whey proteins through the development and documentation of whey protein’s health and wellness benefits.
Research Driven
The goal of the integrated research efforts of the Consortium is to develop a generic, non-proprietary body of knowledge, establishing measurable health and wellness benefits of whey proteins that will create a scientific foundation for new marketing opportunities through the development of scientific support for health, qualified health, and/or structure function claims.
On-going clinical studies also aim to provide a scientific foundation for the superiority of whey proteins over competing non-dairy proteins in delivering consumer benefits.
The Consortium’s first study by Dr. David Baer, USDA, found that daily consumption of whey protein, but not soy protein, led to lower body weight, body fat and waist circumference compared to carbohydrates in free-living overweight and obese adults (Journal of Nutrition, 2011 Aug;141(8):1489-94).
Partner Benefits
Joining the Consortium enables you to
Make decisions about the direction of the research
Get "real time" updates on research progress and advance knowledge of the research results, prior to publication
Lead initiatives that will shape the future of the whey industry
The Consortium welcomes new members at any time. It encourages input from scientific and marketing personnel to help design future studies that will help position whey proteins’ unique dietary role in health and w0 -
Stalin wrote:Read below the benefits you get from joining the Whey Research Consortium. Note the comments about reading research before it is published and making decisions about the direction of the research.
A United Effort
The Whey Protein Research Consortium is an international partnership of dairy cooperatives, associations, processors and multinational companies working together to grow the market for whey protein. Our mission is to create incremental global usage of whey proteins through the development and documentation of whey protein’s health and wellness benefits.
Research Driven
The goal of the integrated research efforts of the Consortium is to develop a generic, non-proprietary body of knowledge, establishing measurable health and wellness benefits of whey proteins that will create a scientific foundation for new marketing opportunities through the development of scientific support for health, qualified health, and/or structure function claims.
On-going clinical studies also aim to provide a scientific foundation for the superiority of whey proteins over competing non-dairy proteins in delivering consumer benefits.
The Consortium’s first study by Dr. David Baer, USDA, found that daily consumption of whey protein, but not soy protein, led to lower body weight, body fat and waist circumference compared to carbohydrates in free-living overweight and obese adults (Journal of Nutrition, 2011 Aug;141(8):1489-94).
Partner Benefits
Joining the Consortium enables you to
Make decisions about the direction of the research
Get "real time" updates on research progress and advance knowledge of the research results, prior to publication
Lead initiatives that will shape the future of the whey industry
The Consortium welcomes new members at any time. It encourages input from scientific and marketing personnel to help design future studies that will help position whey proteins’ unique dietary role in health and w
So someone has some stuff to sell and they want to sell it.
AND????"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
""The Consortium welcomes new members at any time. It encourages input from scientific and marketing personnel to help design future studies that will help position whey proteins’ unique dietary role in health and wellness.""
http://www.wheyconsortium.org/Pages/Home.aspx
Read the above. Marketing personnel helping design studies? They are designing studies to help sell their product, this is not science but hijacking science. It is all a marketing scam.0 -
I use whey protein as a supplement after exercising - gym work and cycling.
It makes more sense to work out what your current level of protein intake is before taking supplements. You may not need any additional protein in the first place.
For example my recommended protein intake is about 55gramms a day which I get from the usual suspects - milk, eggs, cheese, nuts, beer, fish, meat etc.
For my exercise level, the recommended amount of protein increases to 86gramms. Of course I could eat an extra portion of chicken and broccoli after exercise to cover this 31g short fall and sometime I do, but for convenience and cost effectiveness I tend to use whey protein instead - 2.5kg bag of flavoured whey cost me on average £29, equivalent cost for say chicken is £97.
Personally I don't think there are any negative health benefits in using whey as a supplement, as I already consume a very health diet in the first place. After 18 months my weight has remained steady at 70/71kg and fat % has steadily fallen to now around 16%.
As far as marketing scams go, I doubt there are any. I'd like to think most athletes, casual or serious, are intelligent enough to make a considered decision about what and what not to put in their bodies.0 -
Charlie Potatoes wrote:Stalin wrote:Honestly why not eat real food? If you think you need to take on protein in the 30 minutes after training, eat a protein snack.
Anyway these whey powders make a disgusting drink. Mind you most people these days eat garbage and have no idea what real food tastes like so probably actually like the taste.
If you want a high protein snack, try a pint of milk, a hard boiled egg, followed by a yoghurt. Or a sardine sandwich, or a Gerald Ratner special prawn sandwich.
If you get your protein from real food like eggs or prawns or nuts, you get many other important nutrients as well as protein. e.g.
You have totally missed all of the points made.
Your 'high protein snacks' are likely to miss the glycogen window because of the time taken for the body to process.
Everyone eats 'real food' as well.
Why does Whey protein make you so angry that you have to pretend not to understand this?
What does the 30 minute window do?0 -
I think a lot of who are arguing whey protein is useless its a waste product blah blah blah are forgetting its A SUPPLEMENT! it is there to supplement a good healthy balanced diet.
I for one straight after a ride don't want to be chewing on a chicken breast or eating some mince! a whey shake with some dextrose etc is a good fast absorbing way to replenish your glycogen stores and add some protein to aid recovery.
And another point you have no way of knowing if the OP is getting enough protein, you don't know his height weight daily energy expenditure etc etc. The RDA amounts the government pushes are only so people aren't deficient by no way are they optimal.0 -
nick-gti wrote:I think a lot of who are arguing whey protein is useless its a waste product blah blah blah are forgetting its A SUPPLEMENT! it is there to supplement a good healthy balanced diet.
I for one straight after a ride don't want to be chewing on a chicken breast or eating some mince! a whey shake with some dextrose etc is a good fast absorbing way to replenish your glycogen stores and add some protein to aid recovery.
And another point you have no way of knowing if the OP is getting enough protein, you don't know his height weight daily energy expenditure etc etc. The RDA amounts the government pushes are only so people aren't deficient by no way are they optimal.
How much faster do you recover with something within 30 minutes vs having something (a meal for instance) 2 hours after your ride?0 -
The thing about recovery window is always used, but very seldom is it actually said how much it apparently speeds up the recovery process. I did a bit of digging and found this
http://evidencemag.com/recovery-window/
It suggests that a dedicated recovery meal inside the magic window is only really needed if you're going to train again within 24 hours of your workout finishing. Anything beyond that and a regular diet will replenish yourself perfectly adequately.
The study linked in the above article suggests post workout glycogen levels may be <100, with ~300 @ 8 hours and ~500 @24 hours. There was no discernible difference in those values for those eating normally vs during the 30 minute window.
The authors of that paper suggest an immediate meal/snack after a workout is only really required if you're doing another session within 8 hours of the first. Even if we train/compete every day that seems unlikely.0
