Football introduces revolutionary new doping test

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

I find it amusing that a certain notorious twitter 'personality' who rants about doping in cycling, completely overlooks certain aspects about his favourite team Liverpool's rise to probable league winners which he would tweet about on a daily basis if they applied to Sky.

Jumping for 7th to 1st - not normal. Who has done that in the last 15 years?
Involvement of ex Sky doctor who hired OKed Leinders's hiring. Did he bring him to Anfield?
Gerrard a known client of Actovegin advocate Dr Muller-Wohlfahrt, a suspected doping doctor.
Manager for six years, Rafa Benitez was previously manager of Valencia when they were linked to Operacion Puerto
Jordan Henderson becoming a good player
Why was Hodgson sacked? Did he want to disband the doping programme?


(not that I personally think that any of this is worthy of note - but then I'm not a fanatic. But it does show hypocrisy in those that claim to rail against it)

You forgot the head shrinker. Maybe that's just a front. Questions must me asked.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

You forgot the head shrinker. Maybe that's just a front. Questions must me asked.

He's the ex Sky doctor.

andyp

Joelsim wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

Zidane is still worshiped Armstrong his not. I don't think football fans are to bothered. I don't think it is seen as cheating so much in football compared to a long distance runner or a cyclist.

Unlike Pantani, Vino etc etc etc etc etc. Couldn't agree with you any less.

There is of course some doping in football, but the gains to be made are not as big as the gains to be made from cycling. Football is not all about stamina. You can't give Grant Holt a shedload of Edgar and turn him into Lionel Messi. In football there is no such thing as high octane in the way that EPO and BBs transformed the sport.

I also think that there is an awful lot to lose in football for anyone caught. Take our man Wayne, he could lose £25m per season by being caught, and honestly how much better is it going to make his game?

I will say again though, there is some doping in every sport as we all know. If Wayne was busted there would be a national outcry and he would be public enemy number one.

So you repeatedly contend on here that all cyclists dope, despite the very apparent large gaps in your knowledge of cycling, but think that football doesn't have a problem because it's a game of skill and everyone involved has too much too lose?

Wow. Just wow.

frenchfighter

Do you ever say anything nice or constructive?

andyp

It depends on the level of idiocy I'm dealing with.

Richmond Racer

andyp wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

Zidane is still worshiped Armstrong his not. I don't think football fans are to bothered. I don't think it is seen as cheating so much in football compared to a long distance runner or a cyclist.

Unlike Pantani, Vino etc etc etc etc etc. Couldn't agree with you any less.

There is of course some doping in football, but the gains to be made are not as big as the gains to be made from cycling. Football is not all about stamina. You can't give Grant Holt a shedload of Edgar and turn him into Lionel Messi. In football there is no such thing as high octane in the way that EPO and BBs transformed the sport.

I also think that there is an awful lot to lose in football for anyone caught. Take our man Wayne, he could lose £25m per season by being caught, and honestly how much better is it going to make his game?

I will say again though, there is some doping in every sport as we all know. If Wayne was busted there would be a national outcry and he would be public enemy number one.

So you repeatedly contend on here that all cyclists dope, despite the very apparent large gaps in your knowledge of cycling, but think that football doesn't have a problem because it's a game of skill and everyone involved has too much too lose?

Wow. Just wow.

I'm pretty blown away by Joelism's post myself

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

It depends on the level of idiocy I'm dealing with.

I have just re-read his post. Can you point out sentence by sentence what is so wrong with it? As far as I can tell it is more or less correct.

Unless you have inside information on extensive use of drugs in football? Or information on how EPO et al will turn you from a zero to hero?

I dont follow football obviously so would be interested in reading about the drugs involved if you have some proper information.

salsiccia1

If anyone thinks that EPO, HGH et al wouldn't benefit a football player (or tennis player ), then they are deluded. The potential financial and sporting gains of being just that few percent better are enormous. I would be astounded if football and most other high-level, high-reward sports don't have a PED problem.

The best way for a sport to not have a drug problem is not to test properly, and that's why football 'doesn't' have a drug problem.

Richmond Racer

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If anyone thinks that EPO, HGH et al wouldn't benefit a football player (or tennis player ), then they are deluded. The potential financial and sporting gains of being just that few percent better are enormous. I would be astounded if football and most other high-level, high-reward sports don't have a PED problem.

The best way for a sport to not have a drug problem is not to test properly, and that's why football 'doesn't' have a drug problem.

+1

4 World Cups and zero positives

Per-lease.

andyp

frenchfighter wrote:

I have just re-read his post. Can you point out sentence by sentence what is so wrong with it? As far as I can tell it is more or less correct.

Unless you have inside information on extensive use of drugs in football? Or information on how EPO et al will turn you from a zero to hero?

I dont follow football obviously so would be interested in reading about the drugs involved if you have some proper information.

Usage of PEDs in football has been fairly extensively documented, i.e. a lot of the top Italian teams in late 1990s and early 2000s were using EPO. Fuentes has gone on record as saying he was working with a number of Spanish La Liga clubs but the clubs have received official protection from the authorities to stop this coming out.

Here in the UK there are a number of clubs who've used methods, i.e. blood spinning, that are banned in other sports and the number of random drug tests your average premier league player will get per year is something like 0.2.

The UCI have, rightfully, been under scrutiny for corruption related to the Armstrong affair, but if you look at FIFA then the levels of documented corruption there are astonishing. FIFA vice-president Jack Warner and his family enriched themselves through selling tickets on the black market. The allegations of corruption around the successful Qatar World Cup bid continue to be made. If a governing body is this corrupt, do you think it would work hard to eradicate doping, or would it turn a blind eye and hope it goes away?

As for the whole "football is a skill based game so drugs won't help" fallacy, the modern game is dominated by teams who use pressing as a tactic when they are not is possession, basically using a high tempo style to try and force the opposition to cede possession. This style can only be implemented by very fit teams as it requires as more energy to be exerted when a team is without possession of the ball. If a club thought they would benefit from a doping regime to implement this game plan then they'd implement it.

For a quick overview of doping in football this page is a useful starting place;

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping ... -evidence/

Macaloon

Exhibit A: Robbie Sauvage

frenchfighter

Thanks for the response andyp, pretty helpful.

That link is one of the few I've read - was pretty depressed after reading that. ZZ was a huge favourite of mine when I was younger. I cant see how the drugs helped his foot skill and ball placement much but I'm sure he benefited a great deal.

shinyhelmut

Foot skill and ball placement don't count for very much if the other guy gets to the ball first.

dish_dash

Interesting read on doping in football. The section on Marseille was interesting.

On the day of the Final, Bernard Tapie demanded that all players should take a banned substance.

I just note that Tapie was also owner/manager of La Vie Claire. And yes, I'm aware of the various people that have claimed that the health food chain sponsored team was clean...

lostboysaint

Rick Chasey wrote:

sjmclean wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Wonder whether the first fail will be an Italian or a German.

Spanish, or a player who plays in Spain. The brits are safe unless it covers coke.

What makes you say that?

Other than the knowledge that Fuentes has said all along that he "prepared" players from a load of Spanish sides?

frenchfighter

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Foot skill and ball placement don't count for very much if the other guy gets to the ball first.

What if someone passes the ball to him? :roll:

Pross

The thing is, doping arguably won't reduce a player's skill level (although something that bulks them up may) therefore a highly skilled player will become a faster, highly skilled player with greater endurance. How can anyone argue that the latter would not be a significant advantage? I think people under-estimate the amount of running, including a huge number of 'interval sessions' a top footballer does in a match. They are covering around 7 miles over 90 minutes including regular sprints. It's far easier maintaining those ball control skills if you aren't exhausted.

RoadPainter

frenchfighter wrote:

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Foot skill and ball placement don't count for very much if the other guy gets to the ball first.

What if someone passes the ball to him? :roll:

When looking at what time goals are scored, there is a heavy bias towards end of games.
Tired players make worse decisions and aren't able to keep up with less tired players.
If you take PEDs, you can be less tired.

RoadPainter

A friend of mine went to his first ever top flight football game yesterday. He was really surprised at how big all the players were.
If you weren't bulky, you'd just get brushed off the ball - unless you were exceptional.

Bulk + speed, what do those kind of sportsmen get tempted by?

RichN95.

RoadPainter wrote:

Bulk + speed, what do those kind of sportsmen get tempted by?

Lapdancers and Ferraris.

Anonymous

Well Ronaldo ran 90m in 10.1 seconds, though that was from a jogging start. Pretty exceptional time.

Look at Bale the other week, im sure I saw someone say he could make the olympic semi final with that pace.

ddraver

RoadPainter wrote:

A friend of mine went to his first ever top flight football game yesterday. He was really surprised at how big all the players were.

Perhaps this is the view of a rugby player but I'm usually surprised by how small they are. Stevie G is flipping minescule. Likewise if you compare Jamie Redknapp to Andrew Flintoff or even just whatever random comedian they ve got on that week he is reliably the smallest.

RoadPainter

Sitting in row 4 at Palace gives a pretty close up view, which might distort things.

Palace & City (sans Silva) aren't teams of small players, to be fair.

Pross

ddraver wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

A friend of mine went to his first ever top flight football game yesterday. He was really surprised at how big all the players were.

Perhaps this is the view of a rugby player but I'm usually surprised by how small they are. Stevie G is flipping minescule. Likewise if you compare Jamie Redknapp to Andrew Flintoff or even just whatever random comedian they ve got on that week he is reliably the smallest.

Yep, even footballers I've seen who have the nickname 'big' tend to be much smaller than rugby backs. I'd actually say players at the top level tend to be less bulky than those in lower leagues. PEDs in football, like cycling, are likely to be all about endurance. Rugby on the other hand.....

frenchfighter

Article today about concern over creatine use in school boy rugby.

Lanterne_Rogue

Pross wrote:

Yep, even footballers I've seen who have the nickname 'big' tend to be much smaller than rugby backs. I'd actually say players at the top level tend to be less bulky than those in lower leagues. PEDs in football, like cycling, are likely to be all about endurance. Rugby on the other hand.....

Not just endurance, but recovery - the ability to train for longer and with less damage to your match-day performance - for a skill based game, the ability to train for longer might be pretty useful. Doesn't HGH help sharpen your eyesight too, or is that just a myth? Either way, there's at least a few people who have raised eyebrows about Messi's therapeutic use of HGH.

Cyclists earn relatively small beer compared to other sports people. The idea that cyclists are uniquely motivated to cheat seems highly unlikely to me - for this reason alone I tend to assume that other sports have far worse problems. This may be my ticket to the place that shan't be mentioned, but the fact other sports aren't finding the cheats suggests to me that they're just not bloody looking.

RichN95.

underlayunderlay wrote:

Either way, there's at least a few people who have raised eyebrows about Messi's therapeutic use of HGH.

He was twelve years old. He wasn't playing Champions League.

mm1

Doesn't HGH help sharpen your eyesight too, or is that just a myth?

One of the journalists who experimented with the LA performance programme for Outside magazine (from memory there have been 2, unless the same guy did it twice) noted improved eyesight and complexion as side effects.

florerider

Would English GCSE be a quick and easy dope test?

Pross

There'd be no-one left in the game!