Sutherland on Contador
Comments
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OCDuPalais wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:OCDuPalais wrote:Crankbrother wrote:
EDIT: The Levi stuff only proves Frenchie's point though ... If Levi was willing to ride for AC ... Or maybe Levi is just a bit feckless ...
Conversely, if Levi had won those, with Bert 2nd, he would have been stripped of those victories, handing them to.... Lucky Old Contador!
I see an opportunity for a Snakes and Ladders-stylie cycling doping board game
But with no ladders - only snakes? Even the Fizik saddle adverts for Basso say he's a snake...
I was thinking the ladder could be used for when a rider gets promoted to a win thanks to another's suspension...sometimes only to land on a snake with the next throw of the dice....0 -
Crankbrother wrote:^ Snakes and Leaders?
Snakes and Leinders?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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^yes, TWH, I think we get it0
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“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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TailWindHome wrote:
Steaks and Leinders?0 -
I think the only luck he's had generally was with the plasticisers issue in his WADA / CAS case0
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frenchfighter wrote:iainf72 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Yes, I would agree and have said it before. He has won by storming margins before but mostly it is taking small amount of time consistently. Was one of the reasons I pointed out a couple of years ago for another reason to doubt he was a doper.
Oh there's no reason to doubt he was a doper.
I just don't see a huge different between pre and post ban.
Maybe because 0.0000000001 clen has an irrelevant effect on performance.
I dont see any positives from him for something performance enhancing, no words of doubt from the governing bodies and no whistle blowers on him. In this day of cycling and with a career as long as his, we would have heard it before now.
Is that indurain you're talking about? Or did you miss the bit where a governing body doubted his steak excuse, but were prevented from challenging the factually incorrect testimony of Contador's expert witness regarding plasticizers?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Very good.
When I first looked I thought "oh no, another shot of Contador's legs".0 -
The primary plasticizer is called DEHP. This is used in medical supplies i.e. blood bags.The problem is that DHEP can be found in plastic food containers etc. Up to 30 micrograms per KG of a persons weight is a common amount for people to have in their system from everyday exposure.
The problem Contador had was that his level in one urine sample was a lot higher than the other samples tested.
It was suspicious to say the least. Very difficult to get a definitive test procedure as athletes I would imagine would be able to say the high levels came from this plastic water bottle or this food container etc.0 -
The problem with the plasticizers was that they were found in a urine test before the clenbuterol turned up and were not present when the clenbuterol was present. Key to making the blood doping case was proving that it was possible Contador could have transferred blood (and plasticizsers) one day and then plasma (and clenbuterol) the next day. The question was then raised as to why the plasma transfer didn't also contain plasticizers. Dr. Ashenden tried to counter this by saying that DEHP free bags are available and this explains their absence. So he used one type of bag for the blood and another for the plasma. CAS concluded that this seemed possible, but as likely as the contaminated steak.0
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TheBigBean wrote:The problem with the plasticizers was that they were found in a urine test before the clenbuterol turned up and were not present when the clenbuterol was present. Key to making the blood doping case was proving that it was possible Contador could have transferred blood (and plasticizsers) one day and then plasma (and clenbuterol) the next day. The question was then raised as to why the plasma transfer didn't also contain plasticizers. Dr. Ashenden tried to counter this by saying that DEHP free bags are available and this explains their absence. So he used one type of bag for the blood and another for the plasma. CAS concluded that this seemed possible, but as likely as the contaminated steak.
Its worth remembering that Contador's lawyers protested against Ashenden's theory on a procedural point, with the result that WADA weren't allowed to present Ashenden to testify and expand on the plasticizer issue during the CAS hearing.0 -
Its worth remembering that Contador was cleared of wrong doing and is still the best stage race rider of his generation.
I read the whole document. Fun. UCI should have spent those lawyers fees etc on the development of the sport and routing out corrupted officials.
Good summary Big Bean.Contador is the Greatest0 -
^your statement above doesnt preclude discussion, I'm afraid
its how it is0 -
Discuss away. The facts are what they are.Contador is the Greatest0
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frenchfighter wrote:Its worth remembering that Contador was cleared of wrong doing and is still the best stage race rider of his generation.
I read the whole document. Fun. UCI should have spent those lawyers fees etc on the development of the sport and routing out corrupted officials.
Good summary Big Bean.
If Bertie admitted to doping, would it change your impression of him Frenchie?
Serious question. I think he's a doper, but I also think he's a great bike rider - Very smart and tactically astute. I also think he's a nice guy.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Its worth remembering that Contador was cleared of wrong doing and is still the best stage race rider of his generation.
I read the whole document. Fun. UCI should have spent those lawyers fees etc on the development of the sport and routing out corrupted officials.
Good summary Big Bean.
If Bertie admitted to doping, would it change your impression of him Frenchie?
Serious question. I think he's a doper, but I also think he's a great bike rider - Very smart and tactically astute. I also think he's a nice guy.
Do you think he is doping now?0 -
iainf72 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Its worth remembering that Contador was cleared of wrong doing and is still the best stage race rider of his generation.
I read the whole document. Fun. UCI should have spent those lawyers fees etc on the development of the sport and routing out corrupted officials.
Good summary Big Bean.
If Bertie admitted to doping, would it change your impression of him Frenchie?
Serious question. I think he's a doper, but I also think he's a great bike rider - Very smart and tactically astute. I also think he's a nice guy.
Yes it would but it would still remain positive. The performances would be looked at in a different light but not too much of a come down from currently. Him as a character would be affected far more in my eyes.
I don't think he will ever admit to it because there is nothing to admit to, I genuinely believe that after appraising all the info and I don't think anyone will try and credibly 'out' him either.
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Astana soigneur Yuriy Kulishkin:
You also have to see Alberto in training. What’s the secret of a star’s success? Maybe he trains more than others, or somehow puts together his training in a special way?
I haven’t noticed anything special in the training. He’s always motivated! He never races just to race. Always going for the victory, always fighting. And lots of riders do many races just for training. Quite a disciplined rider, routine is never disturbed.
What do riders on the team call him? What’s Contador’s nickname?
The riders always call him Alberto. Conta – that’s just a nickname that the fans and the press use.
But his stardom, does it tell on him in any way?
No, he’s very modest, ordinary, not a celebrity nutcase. The star part comes from the reporters and the spectators.
And what about Alberto as a man?
Good, open, calm. He really loves racing. Alberto is very friendly and pleasant. He doesn’t have a scrap of rudeness or arrogance about him, he doesn’t allow himself to be that way. There are always lots of fans and press around him, and he doesn’t say no to anyone who wants to be photographed with him or to get an autograph. Although perhaps he didn’t always really want to do this, especially just before the start when there’s no time to do it.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Seems to be a lot of you who think or are at the very least suspicious that Contador his doping. If you do think he his doping then many of you must feel that there is still doping going on. It's not just the winner of races who would dope.0
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tuneskyline wrote:Seems to be a lot of you who think or are at the very least suspicious that Contador his doping. If you do think he his doping then many of you must feel that there is still doping going on. It's not just the winner of races who would dope.
There's still doping, but a lot less and what there is a lot less effective.
This is a great post
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 3522034028Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
By the way FF. I have met Contador and he his very nice chap. I have signed photo on my wall. I also got him to sign a small poster. You are welcome to have the signed poster. Send me a pm and I will send it to you.0
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tuneskyline wrote:By the way FF. I have met Contador and he his very nice chap. I have signed photo on my wall. I also got him to sign a small poster. You are welcome to have the signed poster. Send me a pm and I will send it to you.
Haha good one
It would be nice to have that poster but given you made the effort it is only right you keep it. I appreciate the offer.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Just for a quick Contador - CAS refresher...
The UCI argued that Contador's clen positive was likely the result of a blood transfusion. They pointed out that the plasticizer levels in the tests were high, which might indicate this (plasticizer levels were at one point going to be used as a direct test for blood transfusion, but this has never been certififed - nonetheless they can be used as supporting evidence). There was some argument regarding Contador's blood readings (I think), which the UCI stated were in line with a red cell transfusion on one day and a plasma transfusion on another.
Contador's lawyers countered that if Contador had not one but two transfusions, and the source of plasticizers was the transfusion, then he would have had high levels after both days - but he didn't.
The UCI were prevented on a procedural point from presenting Ashenden to counter this argument, so Contador's argument stood unchallenged.
What Ashenden would have pointed out if he'd been allowed was that plasticizers are used in blood bags to keep red cells supple, but that it is common (and recommended) medical practice to use a different type of bag for plasma, so the assumption that the plasma transfusion would have produced high plasticizer readings is not just false, but counter to what would be expected from medical practice.
CAS eventually ruled that the clen probably came from a dietary supplement, despite no evidence being presented that this might be the case. Their ruling was based on incomplete factual data, which ruled out a hypothesis on the basis of a faulty argument.
Hope we're all clear now :-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
^ all the detail is in here http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/documen ... .02.10.pdf0
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Richmond Racer wrote:TheBigBean wrote:The problem with the plasticizers was that they were found in a urine test before the clenbuterol turned up and were not present when the clenbuterol was present. Key to making the blood doping case was proving that it was possible Contador could have transferred blood (and plasticizsers) one day and then plasma (and clenbuterol) the next day. The question was then raised as to why the plasma transfer didn't also contain plasticizers. Dr. Ashenden tried to counter this by saying that DEHP free bags are available and this explains their absence. So he used one type of bag for the blood and another for the plasma. CAS concluded that this seemed possible, but as likely as the contaminated steak.
Its worth remembering that Contador's lawyers protested against Ashenden's theory on a procedural point, with the result that WADA weren't allowed to present Ashenden to testify and expand on the plasticizer issue during the CAS hearing.
Yes, big bean is not actually correct at all about this, it's a bit of a misinformed interpretation.0
