Feedback on Bespoked?

styxd

I think part of what you're paying for with a custom is the builders experience. Yet alot of these new builders seem to be charging top dollar, perhaps more even, than someone like Rourke.

LegendLust

ugo.santalucia wrote:

LegendLust wrote:

I agree it's simple. But where I worry about the new builders is do they understand frame design? I don't mean how the frame looks, a good craftsman can work on this. I mean do they understand frame geometry and how this affects how the frame rides. I suppose this doesn't matter when you build with pre fabricated lugs, with their pre-made angles, but what would these builders do when presented with a very unusual body shape and dimensions and they have to build a true made-to-measure frame that fits and handles well?

IS the answer Chas Roberts?

There's lot's of answers to this. My point is that joining tubes together is only half the story.

LegendLust

woolwich wrote:

Legend,

Yes I share your concerns about a handful of the new builders as well. I think you raise valid points about understanding effects of geometry/materials etc. I think I few of them had not yet grasped the complexity of the simple bike frame. One I spoke to at the show had only made 3 frames, this alarmed me from the perspective of understanding the product, even if his bikes were straight and true.
Do not dismiss new builders altogether though. A lot of the legendary builders are mostly self taught and had to start somewhere, providing they understand there limitations and do not deceive this is fine. I think the trick is talk to the man/women first.

Regarding the effects of different geometrys/materials. My own take is that the only way to learn is to make and ride them. Make mistakes and do it again.

Along with bending the ear of a master this is a good road to go down. Some of the guys we consider masters now, learnt from other masters. Reading the 73 degree book at the moment - it's interesting that someone like Irio Tommasini was an apprentice to the great Giuseppe Pela. No doubt the guy who is the apprentice to Irio will some day become a legend in their own right.

woolwich

Sad the demise of the apprenticeship in the modern world. With the exception of Brian Rourke who had his son and possibly Enigma who might be large enough to employ one. I am only aware of one other frame builder with the forethought and capacity to continue his business this way. Yep, It's that Chas Roberts again! Top man.

ugo.santalucia

woolwich wrote:

Sad the demise of the apprenticeship in the modern world. With the exception of Brian Rourke who had his son and possibly Enigma who might be large enough to employ one. I am only aware of one other frame builder with the forethought and capacity to continue his business this way. Yep, It's that Chas Roberts again! Top man.

I'd love a Roberts, but being built as a Greek God I can't really justify a bespoke frame... I seem to be content with anything size 52-56... :shock:

matt_n-2

I thought the show was ok, living in Bristol it was perfectly located for me in previous year but this year I spent most of the day on public transport!

The main reason for heading to the big smoke this year was so that my mate could meet Darren Baum and place his deposit with Prestige.

He's been in awe of Baum for years now and he now has the opportunity to buy his dream bike, the added bonus is that he is also travelling to Melbourne in June for a few weeks so will have his fit done over there by Darren. Darren came over as a really nice guy who had all the answers to my mate's questions and seemed like he really wants to build you the best bike he can.

Trouble is now he has seen the two Corretos (Ti) in the flesh he's deliberating over his material choice as he was going to go for the steel Ristretto originally!

I was mega impressed with the quality of the finish on the Baums, the paint is flawless, the rear chainstays are beautiful, the oversized headtube on the Ti frames is awesome and it all just comes together to make a very attractive bike.

Although the show is back in Bristol next year we probably won't go, the above mate will have his Baum and another will hopefully have his Pegoretti Responsorium too, so we won't need to go and oggle any more custom stuff for a while.

ugo.santalucia

Matt_N wrote:

Although the show is back in Bristol next year we probably won't go, the above mate will have his Baum and another will hopefully have his Pegoretti Responsorium too, so we won't need to go and oggle any more custom stuff for a while.

Most addicts can't stay away from the stuff for long

kingstonian

woolwich wrote:

Sad the demise of the apprenticeship in the modern world. With the exception of Brian Rourke who had his son and possibly Enigma who might be large enough to employ one. I am only aware of one other frame builder with the forethought and capacity to continue his business this way. Yep, It's that Chas Roberts again! Top man.

A few of them are employing apprentices and training them up

bmxboy10

styxd wrote:

I think part of what you're paying for with a custom is the builders experience. Yet alot of these new builders seem to be charging top dollar, perhaps more even, than someone like Rourke.

That is why when I get my bike built it will 99% likely be a Rourke. As "simple" as the frame may be (not my words) you get a decent frame made buy a person who has vast amounts of experience plus the prices are very reasonable compared to some of the others, who quite frankly I feel are taking the mick and are playing into the hands of all the rich mamils who dont know what to do with all their dosh!

woolwich

Kingstonian,

That is great news!

imposter2.0

littledove44 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

You might have a long wait, then. Custom & bespoke is all about artisans, shed-dwellers and misfits - making stuff that interests them - and usually very well. If you want podium girls and freebie bags, go to the NEC.

Point missed.

Professional organisation and behaviour is what is needed. Some exhibitors were professional, many were not. Being a small niche event does not excuse lack of professionalism. Being an artisan is no excuse for not knowing details of your own product.

No point paying for a stand if you thinking updating your twitter feed is more important than talking to the two blokes looking at your frames.

No point in being there if you don't know the weight of your frame (even roughly).

No point in exhibiting titanium frames if you cannot say in a couple of coherent sentences what the pros and cons of titanium are compared to other options.

I could go on......

Point missed? I don't think so. Nothing you've said there suggests otherwise. I had my first custom 653 frame built for me in 1993 and most custom builders I know would have punched me in the face if I had asked them questions like the ones you are suggesting - and deservedly so.

It helps if you go armed with a bit of knowledge - doesn't sound like you did.