Feedback on Bespoked?

bmxboy10

Anyone been today. Thinking about going tomorrow to see Mr Rourke, just looking for any feedback.

kingstonian

I'm going tomorrow, Tom Donhou is making my bike now so thought I'd go along to see what else he is doing at the moment.

hypster

I went today and thought it was worthwhile. Some nice bikes on show and some great people to discuss various things with. Not a huge amount there in bike show terms, it took me about 2 hours to get round it all maybe 1 1/2 times. First pass to check it all out and second pass to revisit the bits I was most interested in.

20-25 minute walk from Stratford station to the velodrome if you are going by train. You can ride the velodrome as well when you are there. I didn't pay a lot of attention but Condor Cycles had a load of track bikes that they were presumably charging for and taking about 20 riders out on the track at a time and supervising them. You will need riding gear and a helmet which obviously a lot of people will already have if they cycle there. I'm guessing it will be a lot busier tomorrow.

Cheshire Cat

Went today, worthwhile, some lovely machines and passionate builders...the Baum bikes were stunning.

littledove44

Went today. Managed to park virtually outside the front door.

Varied, is how I would describe it. Not enough small bits and pieces. Some beautiful bikes, some interesting people. Too much custom steel, not enough custom carbon. Some really knowledgeable people, but many stands manned by people who thought doing stuff on their mobiles was a higher priority to talking to potential customers.

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

ugo.santalucia

littledove44 wrote:

Too much custom steel, not enough custom carbon.
Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

a) there is no expertise in carbon fibre manufacturing for bikes in this country.

b) You mean corporate? Wrong bike show then...

sloppyschleckonds

Shame its not in Bristol this year, always something that appeals to everyone

Chris87

think this is just a one off, the programme is advertising it back in Bristol next year.

Having been the last few years its been an interesting change, the venue is great though the quality of frame builders seems to have dropped, not as much variety as usual either.

The usual suspects were impressive as ever (feather, donhou, Paulos Quiros, saffron, faggin) but there seemed to be a lot of new builders that don't know how/can't be bothered to tidy up their welding, some of them looked worse than factory build welds!

And had to laugh when one exhibitor went on about their custom UK carbon frames....built in China.... (not knocking Chinese manufacturing, just don't try to pass it off as made in the UK)

Would still recommend though, had a great day!

desweller

Chris87 wrote:

think this is just a one off, the programme is advertising it back in Bristol next year.

Having been the last few years its been an interesting change, the venue is great though the quality of frame builders seems to have dropped, not as much variety as usual either.

The usual suspects were impressive as ever (feather, donhou, Paulos Quiros, saffron, faggin) but there seemed to be a lot of new builders that don't know how/can't be bothered to tidy up their welding, some of them looked worse than factory build welds!

And had to laugh when one exhibitor went on about their custom UK carbon frames....built in China.... (not knocking Chinese manufacturing, just don't try to pass it off as made in the UK)

Would still recommend though, had a great day!

At the end of last year's show they said they would be moving around every year, but it would be great if it came back to Brizzle. Always love to see the different approaches that the independents take. IMO the likes of Hewitt, Rourke etc. are the least interesting exhibitors due to the conventional nature of their products!

bmxboy10

So I went to the show as I keep thinking about building a custom bike for my 40th which has now been and gone

I went to see a Rourke in the flesh and I am glad I went. However I also felt the show was a bit weak in some respects and agree with other comments that the people on the stands were not always that engaging. Got to see some wheel parts so that was helpful as I want to build up a set of hand builts in the next few weeks.

However about custom frames....My verdict is that custom frames are a nice to have and are made more attractive at the show thanks to some nice paint jobs but at the end of the day I could not help thinking that its just a frame. I know I don't need fancy detailing so if I do go ahead I think Rourke or Enigma are the way to go for me. When I got home I decided to clean my Cinelli and Croix and all the time was thinking what will I gain from a custom frame over what I have and the answer is nothing! This all of course means nothing in the world of bikes!

imposter2.0

littledove44 wrote:

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

You might have a long wait, then. Custom & bespoke is all about artisans, shed-dwellers and misfits - making stuff that interests them - and usually very well. If you want podium girls and freebie bags, go to the NEC.

kingstonian

littledove44 wrote:

Went today. Managed to park virtually outside the front door.

Varied, is how I would describe it. Not enough small bits and pieces. Some beautiful bikes, some interesting people. Too much custom steel, not enough custom carbon. Some really knowledgeable people, but many stands manned by people who thought doing stuff on their mobiles was a higher priority to talking to potential customers.

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

Out of interest, what was it about your experience at the show that made you decide you won't buy custom?

I was exactly the opposite after last year's show. I spent a couple of hrs looking in detail at bikes and speaking with many framebuilders, and ended up deciding a) that was the route I would go down because I could get EXACTLY what I wanted, and b) decided on having Tom Donhou build my bike because I liked the style he has in his bikes and I really liked him as a bloke.

Of course, everyone is different and all that, I'm just curious how the show would turn you off a custom bike.

Chris87

can second Tom being a top bloke, chatted to him on a few occasions now and he's always friendly and very humble, wish I could afford one of his bikes!

marcusjb

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

You might have a long wait, then. Custom & bespoke is all about artisans, shed-dwellers and misfits - making stuff that interests them - and usually very well. If you want podium girls and freebie bags, go to the NEC.

Amen. If you want professional glitz and glamour, go deal with a big faceless corporation.

Dealing with custom builders can be blood-boiling annoying - but you are going to end up with something that is far more special than an off the shelf frame.

It requires imagination, vision and patience to have a custom frameset made, and it isn't a process that will appeal to everyone.

ugo.santalucia

It's really that simple... those artisans don't do glossy leaflets but put the hours to make sure your frame will carry you around for many years. The same money buy you a mid to high range carbon frame which is likely to have some form of manufacturing defect and problem and will most likely end up being returned under warranty at some point... for trivialities or for bigger issues.
I am sorry but you can't bond with a Venge, it's like bonding with a hooker... you will be disappointed sooner or later...

cycleclinic

Also who currently is building a road bike with disc brakes that will take 27/30mm tyres - no one - custom it will have have to be unless I get a cross bike but I don't want to do cross on it!

twgh

My custom Saffron was on show and it was the first time I had seen it in the flesh (steel). It looked better than I could ever have hoped for. Any one who says it is "just a frame" is so wrong. The process of working with Matthew and deciding on what tubes, angles, paint, fork, groupset, wheels etc. means that the bike is totally unique and is mine.

I could have bought a Venge, Cervelo etc for the same price but it would be soulless - if anyone is considering a new bike, in this price range, custom built is the only way to go.

ugo.santalucia

twgh wrote:

My custom Saffron was on show and it was the first time I had seen it in the flesh (steel). It looked better than I could ever have hoped for.

Except for the dreadful wheels...

LegendLust

littledove44 wrote:

Went today. Managed to park virtually outside the front door.

Varied, is how I would describe it. Not enough small bits and pieces. Some beautiful bikes, some interesting people. Too much custom steel, not enough custom carbon. Some really knowledgeable people, but many stands manned by people who thought doing stuff on their mobiles was a higher priority to talking to potential customers.

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

Did you visit the stand with Legend and Tommasini? They build lots of custom carbon frames – albeit in Italy not the UK.

Slo Mo Jones

twgh wrote:

My custom Saffron was on show and it was the first time I had seen it in the flesh (steel). It looked better than I could ever have hoped for. Any one who says it is "just a frame" is so wrong. The process of working with Matthew and deciding on what tubes, angles, paint, fork, groupset, wheels etc. means that the bike is totally unique and is mine.

What was your criteria for choosing tubes?

twgh

ugo.santalucia wrote:

twgh wrote:

My custom Saffron was on show and it was the first time I had seen it in the flesh (steel). It looked better than I could ever have hoped for.

Except for the dreadful wheels...

Shhhh....hoping Reynolds think they look so good on the bike that they won't want them back!

twgh

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

twgh wrote:

My custom Saffron was on show and it was the first time I had seen it in the flesh (steel). It looked better than I could ever have hoped for. Any one who says it is "just a frame" is so wrong. The process of working with Matthew and deciding on what tubes, angles, paint, fork, groupset, wheels etc. means that the bike is totally unique and is mine.

What was your criteria for choosing tubes?

I was fairly open minded but my main idea behind the bike was a frame that produced a stiff/racy but comfortable ride. I wanted it to look racy but also soak up some road buzz - my current frame (carbon) is stiff but ridiculously harsh and as a result quite tiring to ride at times.

I didn't specifically need stainless tubing but I wanted the overall build to be sub 8kg (which it is - roughly 7.5kg) if I ever decided to race it I could put some tubulars on drop that to around 7.1-7.2 which is more than light enough. We discussed 853, 953, Spirit and xcr but settled on spirit as it gave me the build I wanted.

Matthew was great at discussing all options. He was patient, informative and totally understood that this was my baby so wanted it to be perfect..... and trust me I was a picky customer. If you are thinking about getting a custom frame and live in London give him a ring as the entire process has been a pleasure!

Slo Mo Jones

twgh wrote:

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

twgh wrote:

My custom Saffron was on show and it was the first time I had seen it in the flesh (steel). It looked better than I could ever have hoped for. Any one who says it is "just a frame" is so wrong. The process of working with Matthew and deciding on what tubes, angles, paint, fork, groupset, wheels etc. means that the bike is totally unique and is mine.

What was your criteria for choosing tubes?

I was fairly open minded but my main idea behind the bike was a frame that produced a stiff/racy but comfortable ride. I wanted it to look racy but also soak up some road buzz - my current frame (carbon) is stiff but ridiculously harsh and as a result quite tiring to ride at times.

Hmm. The thing is doesn't everyone want a stiff, racey, yet comfortable bike? I ask because I read about the option of having a custom made "unique" bike tailored to an individual riders needs/wants, but I find it difficult to understand what that means outside of size / custom paint jobs / wheelset / groupset selection. Having the frame perfectly sized - great. But given the effect of sizing of stem / seatpost / cranks / bars, a few mm of difference in tube lengths is neither here nor there, no? I'd like a nice titanium frame, but surely there's no benefit from having a titanium frame custom made over and above purchasing a "standard" size frame?

ugo.santalucia

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

Hmm. The thing is doesn't everyone want a stiff, racey, yet comfortable bike? I ask because I read about the option of having a custom made "unique" bike tailored to an individual riders needs/wants, but I find it difficult to understand what that means outside of size / custom paint jobs / wheelset / groupset selection. Having the frame perfectly sized - great. But given the effect of sizing of stem / seatpost / cranks / bars, a few mm of difference in tube lengths is neither here nor there, no? I'd like a nice titanium frame, but surely there's no benefit from having a titanium frame custom made over and above purchasing a "standard" size frame?

Frame geometry can make a significant difference in the way a bike rides and handles... tubing choice a lot less... say the way a frame rides is 90% down to geometry and 10% down to tubes selection. If you are on a budget go for the cheaper tubes, you will never notice the difference.
Going from 725 to 853 I have noticed fxxk all difference, yet the difference in price is significant... :roll:

twgh

I guess everyone wants racey / comfy and I am sure if you took an off the peg steel frame you would be happy once you have set the bike up - I am not sure if it would ever be perfect though?

As Ugo said the geometry is key - my bike was built around the professional bike fit I had. There were a few things I wanted (1 example is a smaller top tube if possible with a longer stem) and Matthew produced a frame that would fit my body shape (leg length, reach etc.). I haven't ridden the bike yet but I will report back once I have.

All I can say is that the bike is mine, I designed it (with expert help) from the ground up. Only you will know if that is worth the process (6-7 months) and the extra ££. For me it is.

littledove44

Imposter wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

You might have a long wait, then. Custom & bespoke is all about artisans, shed-dwellers and misfits - making stuff that interests them - and usually very well. If you want podium girls and freebie bags, go to the NEC.

Point missed.

Professional organisation and behaviour is what is needed. Some exhibitors were professional, many were not. Being a small niche event does not excuse lack of professionalism. Being an artisan is no excuse for not knowing details of your own product.

No point paying for a stand if you thinking updating your twitter feed is more important than talking to the two blokes looking at your frames.

No point in being there if you don't know the weight of your frame (even roughly).

No point in exhibiting titanium frames if you cannot say in a couple of coherent sentences what the pros and cons of titanium are compared to other options.

I could go on......

littledove44

LegendLust wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Went today. Managed to park virtually outside the front door.

Varied, is how I would describe it. Not enough small bits and pieces. Some beautiful bikes, some interesting people. Too much custom steel, not enough custom carbon. Some really knowledgeable people, but many stands manned by people who thought doing stuff on their mobiles was a higher priority to talking to potential customers.

I went with the intention of selecting a custom builder. Came away pretty clear that I will buy non custom for the next bike.

Won't bother going until it gets a bit more professional.

Did you visit the stand with Legend and Tommasini? They build lots of custom carbon frames – albeit in Italy not the UK.

Yes I did, but part of the custom experience off any build is visiting the builder, watching the product grow and evolve, and tweaking things during the process. For that reason I was only considering UK based builders.

ugo.santalucia

littledove44 wrote:

Professional organisation and behaviour is what is needed. Some exhibitors were professional, many were not. Being a small niche event does not excuse lack of professionalism. Being an artisan is no excuse for not knowing details of your own product.

No point paying for a stand if you thinking updating your twitter feed is more important than talking to the two blokes looking at your frames.

No point in being there if you don't know the weight of your frame (even roughly).

No point in exhibiting titanium frames if you cannot say in a couple of coherent sentences what the pros and cons of titanium are compared to other options.

I could go on......

Dude, these blokes who are so unprofessional are normally booked up for the next twelve months... so they must be doing something right... if you then want to go and teach them how to fill a spreadsheet or how to deal with customers in a professional way, be my guest, but that's not necessarily what the customer wants. Maybe that's what you want, but I don't see you as much of a "bespoked" character... did you not just buy a set of Mavic Ksyrium?

littledove44

ugo.santalucia wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Professional organisation and behaviour is what is needed. Some exhibitors were professional, many were not. Being a small niche event does not excuse lack of professionalism. Being an artisan is no excuse for not knowing details of your own product.

No point paying for a stand if you thinking updating your twitter feed is more important than talking to the two blokes looking at your frames.

No point in being there if you don't know the weight of your frame (even roughly).

No point in exhibiting titanium frames if you cannot say in a couple of coherent sentences what the pros and cons of titanium are compared to other options.

I could go on......

Dude, these blokes who are so unprofessional are normally booked up for the next twelve months... so they must be doing something right... if you then want to go and teach them how to fill a spreadsheet or how to deal with customers in a professional way, be my guest, but that's not necessarily what the customer wants. Maybe that's what you want, but I don't see you as much of a "bespoked" character... did you not just buy a set of Mavic Ksyrium?

Oh please. Give me a break. What is this absurd fantasy about spreadsheets? Make things up if you wish, but try to be credible.

I have attended probably in excess of 200 trade shows in my life, as visitor, employee and owner operator. Standard policy for anyone who is in a customer facing role is to face the customer. I ran a customer facing service business, small, and grew it five years from a two man operation with no revenue, to a ten man operation with £15m revenue. Clearly my lack of understanding of customer service led to this inordinate failure, and my ability to retire at the age of 42 to play golf, sail and fiddle with bikes.

If you are of the view that customers do not want to be treated courteously I shall leave you with that position. If you
think that ignoring customers is a good way of selling things then I shall leave you with that position. Good luck with your own business.

As to my wheels, you are probably do not realize or remember that I once contacted you and ask about custom wheels. You recommended Mavic Ksyriums!

Anyway, before you demonstrated how little you know about what really happened on my visit, you should have asked who the other bloke was. Actually it was someone else looking for a custom bike as well, to add to the 80k's worth of bikes he already has. They didn't get his business either.

ugo.santalucia

littledove44 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Professional organisation and behaviour is what is needed. Some exhibitors were professional, many were not. Being a small niche event does not excuse lack of professionalism. Being an artisan is no excuse for not knowing details of your own product.

No point paying for a stand if you thinking updating your twitter feed is more important than talking to the two blokes looking at your frames.

No point in being there if you don't know the weight of your frame (even roughly).

No point in exhibiting titanium frames if you cannot say in a couple of coherent sentences what the pros and cons of titanium are compared to other options.

I could go on......

Dude, these blokes who are so unprofessional are normally booked up for the next twelve months... so they must be doing something right... if you then want to go and teach them how to fill a spreadsheet or how to deal with customers in a professional way, be my guest, but that's not necessarily what the customer wants. Maybe that's what you want, but I don't see you as much of a "bespoked" character... did you not just buy a set of Mavic Ksyrium?

Oh please. Give me a break. What is this absurd fantasy about spreadsheets? Make things up if you wish, but try to be credible.

I have attended probably in excess of 200 trade shows in my life, as visitor, employee and owner operator. Standard policy for anyone who is in a customer facing role is to face the customer. I ran a customer facing service business, small, and grew it five years from a two man operation with no revenue, to a ten man operation with £15m revenue. Clearly my lack of understanding of customer service led to this inordinate failure, and my ability to retire at the age of 42 to play golf, sail and fiddle with bikes.

If you are of the view that customers do not want to be treated courteously I shall leave you with that position. If you
think that ignoring customers is a good way of selling things then I shall leave you with that position. Good luck with your own business.

As to my wheels, you are probably do not realize or remember that I once contacted you and ask about custom wheels. You recommended Mavic Ksyriums!

Anyway, before you demonstrated how little you know about what really happened on my visit, you should have asked who the other bloke was. Actually it was someone else looking for a custom bike as well, to add to the 80k's worth of bikes he already has. They didn't get his business either.

Have you ever thought that not everybody has the same agenda? If someone builds frames, it's a lifestyle choice, he doesn't want to become rich and retire at 42 to play golf, otherwise he would buy frames from China, sticker them and sell them at twice the price, but maybe he wants to live his life as he pleases and not pretend to be someone he is not and maybe build frames until he dies... or maybe move to Mozambique and weld old rusty tubes for the local crowds. Maybe that's just the way they are and instead of smiling engaging at you trying to get a grip on your wallet, maybe they sit in a corner and tweet instead.
I did advise you Mavic because I thought and still think that it was/is the right product for you, given what you said were looking for.

I should have asked who your friend was? Unless he is Muhammad Ali, I am not particularly interested... he's got 80 K worth of bikes? Excellent, I would still prefer to meet Muhammad Ali

twgh

littledove44 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Professional organisation and behaviour is what is needed. Some exhibitors were professional, many were not. Being a small niche event does not excuse lack of professionalism. Being an artisan is no excuse for not knowing details of your own product.

No point paying for a stand if you thinking updating your twitter feed is more important than talking to the two blokes looking at your frames.

No point in being there if you don't know the weight of your frame (even roughly).

No point in exhibiting titanium frames if you cannot say in a couple of coherent sentences what the pros and cons of titanium are compared to other options.

I could go on......

Dude, these blokes who are so unprofessional are normally booked up for the next twelve months... so they must be doing something right... if you then want to go and teach them how to fill a spreadsheet or how to deal with customers in a professional way, be my guest, but that's not necessarily what the customer wants. Maybe that's what you want, but I don't see you as much of a "bespoked" character... did you not just buy a set of Mavic Ksyrium?

Oh please. Give me a break. What is this absurd fantasy about spreadsheets? Make things up if you wish, but try to be credible.

I have attended probably in excess of 200 trade shows in my life, as visitor, employee and owner operator. Standard policy for anyone who is in a customer facing role is to face the customer. I ran a customer facing service business, small, and grew it five years from a two man operation with no revenue, to a ten man operation with £15m revenue. Clearly my lack of understanding of customer service led to this inordinate failure, and my ability to retire at the age of 42 to play golf, sail and fiddle with bikes.

If you are of the view that customers do not want to be treated courteously I shall leave you with that position. If you
think that ignoring customers is a good way of selling things then I shall leave you with that position. Good luck with your own business.

As to my wheels, you are probably do not realize or remember that I once contacted you and ask about custom wheels. You recommended Mavic Ksyriums!

Anyway, before you demonstrated how little you know about what really happened on my visit, you should have asked who the other bloke was. Actually it was someone else looking for a custom bike as well, to add to the 80k's worth of bikes he already has. They didn't get his business either.

Almost all the exhibitors I spoke to were engaging, knowledgeable and genuinely passionate about their products. Shame you caught people at the wrong time of day etc.

Agree there is no excuse for ignoring customers but one thing to consider is that for most of the exhibitors there it is a pretty tiring/stressful experience so give them a little bit of benefit of the doubt! Many of these frame builders are also one man bands who had friends/family etc helping out on the day – they are not huge organisations with marketing budgets (which for me is a huge plus).

Shame you didn’t come away in awe of some of the frames on display – I know I did!