Lack of knowledge...

Iamnot Wiggins
Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
edited April 2014 in Road general
I have a pair of tubular tyres, I have a pair of tubular wheels. I do not have glue or time to faff fitting them due to other things going on at the moment.

So, I thought I'd visit On Your Bike near to my work to see if they could squeeze the job into their busy day.

They had no idea how a tubular system operated and insisted that I needed inner tubes to be fitted. After pointing out the glaringly obvious and correcting the young lady, she then seemed quite baffled and when I asked to speak to the mechanic, he wasn't much better. I politely picked up my wheels and thanked the lady.

Went into Evans, hoping for better (stupid me). Apparently, they didn't have a compressor so couldn't fit tubeless tyres & wheels. Again, pointed out the obvious to which the mechanic replied "I don't even know what they are".

Am I expecting too much for a bike shop to at least have someone experienced in the workshop who can say "yeah, no worries, it'll cost XXX and take 2 days" instead of some young turd who wouldn't know a gear cable from a cassette? Is that really too hard a request?! Dear God.

Appreciate that they're chain stores but surely they must have some passing trade that spends more than a few hundred quid via a bike to work scheme?!
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Comments

  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    I've found that the staff are fairly useless at 90% of shops I've visited. This is why when I find a good shop and mechanic I stick to it.

    I was in a shop in Arizona a couple weeks ago trying to buy a pair of GP4000s and the guy tried to convince me that the Specialized Roubaix tyre was faster and it would last 2,000 miles (because he has experience as he "rides as much as anyone") which is apparently more than the Conti would last. I told him that I got over 3k out of my last set and that they're quicker than the Spec Turbo, but he told me that was impossible. Didn't take me long to leave the shop...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    No you're not expecting too much. I would have thought any bike shop person would have heard of tubs even if they haven't used them before.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    My last mechanic told a customer that he didn't have tyres for his 80mm carbon wheels as they didn't stock tubs. The customer came back an hour later with clinchers he bought from Evans and asked him to fit them. As it turns out they where carbon clinchers and my mechanic just couldn't believe someone would buy wheels that deep in a clincher. :lol:
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    you've got to worry when someone buys 80mm carbon wheels and doesn't know how to fit the clincher tyre to them .... !!
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Slowbike wrote:
    you've got to worry when someone buys 80mm carbon wheels and doesn't know how to fit the clincher tyre to them .... !!

    Yes; fitting a clincher tyre is something every cyclist must know how to do. Perhaps he was just being lazy, perhaps not.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,387
    tbh in the time you've spent going in/out of useless shops you probably could've done the job

    vittoria mastik one
    some solvent (additive-free acetone or isopropyl alcohol)
    cheap brushes
    clean rags

    total time should be about an hour, spread over 2-3 days for drying time, though you could shorten it if you don't go for multiple glue layers on the rim
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • herzog
    herzog Posts: 197
    ...or 10 minutes with tape...
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Herzog wrote:
    ...or 10 minutes with tape...

    Dislike...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    sungod wrote:
    tbh in the time you've spent going in/out of useless shops you probably could've done the job

    vittoria mastik one
    some solvent (additive-free acetone or isopropyl alcohol)
    cheap brushes
    clean rags

    total time should be about an hour, spread over 2-3 days for drying time, though you could shorten it if you don't go for multiple glue layers on the rim

    Both shops are situated by my office so it wasn't really an effort. Certainly less than acquiring all of the above mentioned gear!

    Plus, I have more confidence in a decent mechanic who knows his stuff than my goodself!!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Why would you need a compressor ?? Whats wrong with a pump ?

    I always taped my tubs on - no dramas in all the years I used them.

    And you do need to know how to do it - what are you going to do when you get a puncture with them ?
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    cougie wrote:
    Why would you need a compressor ?? Whats wrong with a pump ?

    I always taped my tubs on - no dramas in all the years I used them.

    And you do need to know how to do it - what are you going to do when you get a puncture with them ?

    You need (perhaps 'need' is a strong word) a compressor for tubeless tyres which is what the guy at Evans thought he was talking about.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • djhermer
    djhermer Posts: 328
    Grill wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Why would you need a compressor ?? Whats wrong with a pump ?

    I always taped my tubs on - no dramas in all the years I used them.

    And you do need to know how to do it - what are you going to do when you get a puncture with them ?

    You need (perhaps 'need' is a strong word) a compressor for tubeless tyres which is what the guy at Evans thought he was talking about.

    Is that the case? I'm having some Pacentis built at the moment and have just given the go-ahead to fit with Hutchinson Tubeless. Was not aware of this. Why the 'need' for a compressor?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    to get the air in quickly so the tyre makes the seal with the rims.
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    cougie wrote:
    Why would you need a compressor ?? Whats wrong with a pump ?

    I always taped my tubs on - no dramas in all the years I used them.

    And you do need to know how to do it - what are you going to do when you get a puncture with them ?

    Just put some sealant in them and be on my merry way :lol:

    I appreciate that this is something that I need to learn to do myself but I really don't have the time at the moment.
  • Hollow-legs
    Hollow-legs Posts: 142
    I brought a pair of stans alpine rims on hope pro 2 hubs for my mountain bike last year ,tired to get some no tubes valves from local shops ...1 LBS had no idea what i was talking about ,the other 2 did not fit or supply tubeless components..I was kinda shocked ....everybody in the industry must know about tubeless tyres..

    I am surprised at evans as they stock No tubes components dont they?
  • khisanth
    khisanth Posts: 41
    Evans is a mixed bag when it comes to staff knowledge. One in Edinburgh was great, everyone working there knew their stuff. Go to the one in Kingston and its okay, but it seems to be staffed by young lads who dont seem to be cyclists themselves.

    Thankfully there are two decent LBS near me that know their stuff and thus get all my trade :)
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    khisanth wrote:
    seems to be staffed by young lads who dont seem to be cyclists themselves.

    You would imagine for a specialist cycling shop that would be a hard requirement for all staff!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Iamnot Wiggins wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Why would you need a compressor ?? Whats wrong with a pump ?

    I always taped my tubs on - no dramas in all the years I used them.

    And you do need to know how to do it - what are you going to do when you get a puncture with them ?

    Just put some sealant in them and be on my merry way :lol:

    I appreciate that this is something that I need to learn to do myself but I really don't have the time at the moment.

    Excellent idea until you get a gash that's too big to seal. I've had that on my tubs with sealant in them.

    You could have learnt how to do it in the time you've spent posting on here.
  • damocles10
    damocles10 Posts: 340
    I'm guessing tubs are rare and sales people in bike shops don't know much outside of the till about cycling, especially in big chains like Evans.....did you try Condor or Mosquito Bikes? ( assuming you're London based ).

    As always, if you want something done properly......
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    cougie wrote:
    Iamnot Wiggins wrote:
    cougie wrote:
    Why would you need a compressor ?? Whats wrong with a pump ?

    I always taped my tubs on - no dramas in all the years I used them.

    And you do need to know how to do it - what are you going to do when you get a puncture with them ?

    Just put some sealant in them and be on my merry way :lol:

    I appreciate that this is something that I need to learn to do myself but I really don't have the time at the moment.

    Excellent idea until you get a gash that's too big to seal. I've had that on my tubs with sealant in them.

    You could have learnt how to do it in the time you've spent posting on here.

    Given that I was in the office, and still am, your last comment is a bit shortsighted.
  • kayakerchris
    kayakerchris Posts: 361
    We seem to be talking about 3 different things, clinchers, tubulars (tubs) and tubeless.

    You do not need a compressor for tubeless tyres. @25mm Hutchinsons fusions fit perfectly well without.

    valve at the top

    Sealant in the bottom of tyre
    a bit of soapy water round rims to lubricate and ease movement
    squeeze the tyre onto the rim with one hand just over the valve and then pump floor pump fast and hard for 30 seconds.

    Tyre will be seated. I have never heard the pop that is described.

    Ride.
    www.hand-surgery.co.uk
    www.dupuytrens.co.uk
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    The compressor only got mentioned because the guy thought they were tubeless and I guess his experience of tubeless may be 29'er MTB tyres, which do need one.

    Car tyres pop loudly and MTB ones not so much. Have never seen a road tubeless so maybe its lower volume/softer casing means it does not pop at all.

    It all depends who you speak to in any bike shop. I would not expect every person in every store to know what a tubular was.

    A mechanic should know though but maybe the guy was not a mechanic.
    He may have worked in the workshop but not been a mechanic.

    The fail is not that they did not know, but that they did not get someone that did ;-)
  • spankwilder
    spankwilder Posts: 169
    The mechanic probably knew what they were, just preferred to deny all knowledge.. "So you're supposed to glue it on?"
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    You should put your own tubs on really.
    Its part of the experience and you need that experience if things go wrong on a ride.

    Thats one of the reasons shops will have a lack of knowledge.

    Where did you get your wheels/tyres?
    Guessing not from either of the two shops mentioned?
  • navrig2
    navrig2 Posts: 1,851
    I'm not surprised by the OP's experience.

    Cycling has been booming and bike sales have probably gone through the roof since before 2000 and on the back of that growth the number of bike shops, either large chain or local, will have increased. But the vast majority oif wheels within that growth will be clinchers I would hazard a guess that the use of tubs has hardly increased at all in the same time.

    And when you consider the comments on here about "Do it yerself" that it's probably fair to assume that only a small proportion of tyre replacement is actually done by the retail trade and even then I'd hazard a guess that the shops that can do this are the well established shops, often associated with the local race team.

    Expecting a chain like Evans to stock and have the skillsets to chane tubs is optimistic. If I ran tubs there is no way on earth I'd let a spotty faced Evans youth anywhere near my wheels. I'd want the gnarly old guy in the dusty, smelly bike shop round the corner to do it, if I didn't do it myself.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    The OP sl4gged off Evans for selling £300 bikes in his sl4gging off of them for not doing his tubs.

    You cannot have it both ways.

    Yes I think any bike shop should know what they are even if they are not able to service them, and I am sure some people in each shop did.

    How do you expect them to know about this stuff?
    Do you think they go on training courses just for that one time someone brings in a tub wheel/tyre (that they bought somewhere else) to be fitted by them because they are convenient?
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Iamnot Wiggins wrote:
    ...some young turd...
    Classy.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Carbonator wrote:
    How do you expect them to know about this stuff?
    Do you think they go on training courses just for that one time someone brings in a tub wheel/tyre (that they bought somewhere else) to be fitted by them because they are convenient?
    Oh come on ...

    I'd expect anyone calling themselves a bike mechanic to at least heard of tubs even if they've never seen one. They are not that obscure.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Carbonator wrote:
    How do you expect them to know about this stuff?
    Do you think they go on training courses just for that one time someone brings in a tub wheel/tyre (that they bought somewhere else) to be fitted by them because they are convenient?

    What a bizarre thing to say. "How do you expect a cycle shop to know about cycling?"

    Having said that, if you are serious enough to buy tubs, you should be serious enough to take on this kind of job yourself and learn it.
  • Iamnot Wiggins
    Iamnot Wiggins Posts: 685
    Carbonator wrote:
    The OP sl4gged off Evans for selling £300 bikes in his sl4gging off of them for not doing his tubs.

    You cannot have it both ways.

    Yes I think any bike shop should know what they are even if they are not able to service them, and I am sure some people in each shop did.

    How do you expect them to know about this stuff?
    Do you think they go on training courses just for that one time someone brings in a tub wheel/tyre (that they bought somewhere else) to be fitted by them because they are convenient?

    You can have it both ways. I've worked in shops before that have sold everything from kids bikes to top line road bikes. Yet the mechanics were experienced and knew even the smallest of things and had generally been on the relevant training courses and they themselves were avid riders & racers. These were independent shops but why should that matter?

    And, for all of you saying that I should be doing this myself, I totally agree. But at the moment, I'd rather have somebody more experienced carry out the work and then ask any questions I may have once it's been done. Again, a good mechanic will be willing to offer advice and tips for maintenance etc. Next, you'll all be saying how you've never employed the services of a bike shop mechanic because you knew everything from the word go :wink:

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