Failed chinese carbon clincher wheels

gingejp
gingejp Posts: 23
edited April 2014 in Road buying advice
My advice on buying carbon parts directly from china. Don't do it. This happened and is due to a defective rim. The front is starting to do exactly the same thing in exactly the same place. To sort it out I have to pay postage in both directions, circa £130. I suggested they just post me out 2 new rims, but they refuse to do that. I bought the rims from ebay 'arron-bike' which is the ebay division of a company called d-bike.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/arron-bike

http://www.d-bike.com

I haven't hit anything with these wheels, it's just poor quality manufacturing.

Rearwheel.jpg
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Comments

  • antsmithmk
    antsmithmk Posts: 717
    Imagine that failing at high speed....
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Fair enough but this is from an unregulated E-Bay buyer. If you bought from someone like Farsports you would find they have much more interest in the quality of their products which seems to be lacking here. Their wheels cost more but are of much better quality from what I have seen. They obviously have some QC in place unlike the company above. Feel bad for you but personally I would never trust an E-Bay seller from China for something like a pair of wheels.
  • gingejp
    gingejp Posts: 23
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Camcycle1974 wrote:
    Fair enough but this is from an unregulated E-Bay buyer. If you bought from someone like Farsports you would find they have much more interest in the quality of their products which seems to be lacking here. Their wheels cost more but are of much better quality from what I have seen. They obviously have some QC in place unlike the company above. Feel bad for you but personally I would never trust an E-Bay seller from China for something like a pair of wheels.

    Are you sure? I thought that all these companies have the same line in terms of faults - post back at your expense which translates to no effective warranty as the postage costs are high.
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    You can't get wheels like that from Planet-X. They don't sell carbon clinchers. Probably for the reasons seen in your photo..........
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    Who happen to use Chinese rims much like 99% of the market.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    There is a post somewhere on this forum from Dave at Planet X, where he states the reasons why they don't sell carbon clinchers... I seem to remember they are not convinced about them... anyone can find it?
    left the forum March 2023
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    eh? Planet X don't sell carbon clinchers ??

    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPPXF45C/p ... r-wheelset

    Unless it's because it's not a FULL carbon clincher and has an alloy rim ...
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Slowbike wrote:
    eh? Planet X don't sell carbon clinchers ??

    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPPXF45C/p ... r-wheelset

    Unless it's because it's not a FULL carbon clincher and has an alloy rim ...

    That's obviously the reason... good morning... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Rolf, I understand your skepticism completely. In effect there is no warranty as postage to China is prohibitive. However I have heard of companies like Farsports who have sorted out warranty issues without the wheels being sent back. So far, so good with mine. The fact that PX don't sell carbon clinchers is noted but that doesn't stop the likes of Mavic,Zipp doing the same does it? I know they have done their R&D on overheating etc but that tech is beginning to filter down now. The wheels I have bought have a high temp brake track incorporated into the rim.

    Slowbike, Rolf was referring to full carbon, not alu with a carbon wrap. They only do carbon tubs. If they did carbon clinchers I would buy them. I imagine they can't be doing with the perceived level ofwarranty claims???

    Perhaps I am deluding myself, only time will tell!
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    Grill wrote:
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    Who happen to use Chinese rims much like 99% of the market.

    Indeed Grill! they (PX) haven't yet made the leap to full carbon clinchers yet though. Give them time :mrgreen:
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    I'll stick to tubs...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    eh? Planet X don't sell carbon clinchers ??

    http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPPXF45C/p ... r-wheelset

    Unless it's because it's not a FULL carbon clincher and has an alloy rim ...

    That's obviously the reason... good morning... :wink:

    morning ... :)
  • menthel
    menthel Posts: 2,484
    Grill wrote:
    I'll stick to tubs...

    Are you local? We will have no trouble here.

    (Please excuse the obscure reference ;))
    RIP commute...
    Sometimes seen bimbling around on a purple Fratello Disc or black and red Aprire Vincenza.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Camcycle1974 wrote:
    Slowbike, Rolf was referring to full carbon, not alu with a carbon wrap. They only do carbon tubs. If they did carbon clinchers I would buy them. I imagine they can't be doing with the perceived level ofwarranty claims???

    Perhaps I am deluding myself, only time will tell!

    I gathered - it was just for clarity
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    menthel wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    I'll stick to tubs...

    Are you local? We will have no trouble here.

    (Please excuse the obscure reference ;))

    That's not obscure, classic British comedy :D
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    What pressure were you pumping your tyres at?
    left the forum March 2023
  • gingejp
    gingejp Posts: 23
    Grill wrote:
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    Who happen to use Chinese rims much like 99% of the market.


    Indeed they do source from the far east. there is nothing wrong with a lot of products from China etc. But at least if there is a warranty issue, Planet-X or any other reputable UK company would sort it out, without you having to pay £130 in postage first. The postage basically means you've got no warranty if ordering directly from China.

    I did ask if they would just post out 2 new rims, but the answer was no, post them back first.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    gingejp wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    Who happen to use Chinese rims much like 99% of the market.


    Indeed they do source from the far east. there is nothing wrong with a lot of products from China etc. But at least if there is a warranty issue, Planet-X or any other reputable UK company would sort it out, without you having to pay £130 in postage first. The postage basically means you've got no warranty if ordering directly from China.

    I did ask if they would just post out 2 new rims, but the answer was no, post them back first.

    To be fair to them would you "just post out two new rims" without inspecting them first?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    The pic appears to show some kind of rectangular 'plug', or insert - and the cracks appear to have formed along the lines of that? Not sure what that is.

    As someone else already asked - what pressure were you running at?
  • gingejp
    gingejp Posts: 23
    Imposter wrote:
    The pic appears to show some kind of rectangular 'plug', or insert - and the cracks appear to have formed along the lines of that? Not sure what that is.

    As someone else already asked - what pressure were you running at?

    110psi...
  • gingejp
    gingejp Posts: 23
    Camcycle1974 wrote:
    gingejp wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    gingejp wrote:
    Absolutely correct camcycle.... I'm just warning others not to do the same....

    My advice would be get a set from Planet-X or similar based in the UK.

    Who happen to use Chinese rims much like 99% of the market.


    Indeed they do source from the far east. there is nothing wrong with a lot of products from China etc. But at least if there is a warranty issue, Planet-X or any other reputable UK company would sort it out, without you having to pay £130 in postage first. The postage basically means you've got no warranty if ordering directly from China.

    I did ask if they would just post out 2 new rims, but the answer was no, post them back first.

    To be fair to them would you "just post out two new rims" without inspecting them first?

    Depends if you value customer service. From the picture, you can clearly see the rim has failed. If posted back, they would only throw in the bin. If you understand the customers quandary that it costs more to post back than a new rim, then they could offer to supply new rim. I'll still have to pay to have wheels built back up again. Posting out new rims and having me get them built up at this end, is the most cost effective solution, that keeps the customer happy and protects arron-bike reputation.

    Who the hell is going to order anything of arron-bike or www.d-bike.com after reading this thread?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    gingejp wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    The pic appears to show some kind of rectangular 'plug', or insert - and the cracks appear to have formed along the lines of that? Not sure what that is.

    As someone else already asked - what pressure were you running at?

    110psi...

    Which is within the normal specs for chinese rims at 120-130 PSI.
    However, I don't expect your pump to be overly accurate and pressure changes linearly as a function of the temperature, although not by a lot (PV = nRT applies, where V,n and R are constant and T is in Kelvin), roughly you gain 10% for every 30 degrees or so... extensive braking can heat up your rims to 50-60 degrees Celsius, so you gain about 10-20% in pressure.
    I think you were well within the required pressure, but I would never exceed 90-100 PSI on carbon clinchers, I'd rather fit a bigger tyre and ride 80-90.

    That said, crap carbon or crap manufacturing
    left the forum March 2023
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    gingejp wrote:
    Depends if you value customer service. From the picture, you can clearly see the rim has failed. If posted back, they would only throw in the bin. If you understand the customers quandary that it costs more to post back than a new rim, then they could offer to supply new rim. I'll still have to pay to have wheels built back up again. Posting out new rims and having me get them built up at this end, is the most cost effective solution, that keeps the customer happy and protects arron-bike reputation.

    Who the hell is going to order anything of arron-bike or http://www.d-bike.com after reading this thread?

    Whether you like it or not, that isn't how the returns process works. For all they know, you could just be blagging some new rims using a pic you found on the internet. If I was them, I'd want to see the rims first, as well. 'Buyer beware' unfortunately.

    As I said earlier, the rim seems to have failed along the line of some kind of rectangular shape in the carbon - would be interesting to know what that is and why it's there...
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    When you buy, you agree to their terms and conditions including their returns policy. If you don't like their policy, don't buy from them. Simples.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • gingejp
    gingejp Posts: 23
    I don't believe the tire pressure was an issue.... Heating up braking surfaces could have contributed, but should not cause a rim to fail. I live in Lincolnshire. There are no long steep tricky descents (or even just long descents).

    The rim has failed at a weak point, which as pointed out, is a rectangular shape that looks like a patch. Speaking to Planet-X, this is how carbon is manufactured and is not necessarily a bodged repair, but it is the weak point of the rim and thats exactly where it's failed. They are just poor quality rims and it was only a matter of time before they did fail, heavy braking or not.

    "Crap carbon or crap manufacturing" - Correct, so steer well clear. My advice is only to use UK suppliers.
  • gingejp
    gingejp Posts: 23
    drlodge wrote:
    When you buy, you agree to their terms and conditions including their returns policy. If you don't like their policy, don't buy from them. Simples.

    Indeed, so don't buy directly from China. returning anything will cost you more than replacing via UK, so essentially they come with no guarantee.
  • Camcycle1974
    Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    At least you are philosophical about it. Imagine if it were a Mavic or Zipp rim out of warranty. Considerably more expensive to swallow. My Farsports wheels were £400 including the shipping so 1/4 of the equivalent Mavic rim of a similar spec. Let's just hope they live up to expectations and I am not on here in 6 months posting similar pictures. I do sympathise which I feel some others on the thread may not. I'm in Cambs so this was another factor in purchasing carbon rims, we don't really have hills as such!
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Imposter wrote:
    gingejp wrote:
    Depends if you value customer service. From the picture, you can clearly see the rim has failed. If posted back, they would only throw in the bin. If you understand the customers quandary that it costs more to post back than a new rim, then they could offer to supply new rim. I'll still have to pay to have wheels built back up again. Posting out new rims and having me get them built up at this end, is the most cost effective solution, that keeps the customer happy and protects arron-bike reputation.

    Who the hell is going to order anything of arron-bike or http://www.d-bike.com after reading this thread?

    Whether you like it or not, that isn't how the returns process works. For all they know, you could just be blagging some new rims using a pic you found on the internet. If I was them, I'd want to see the rims first, as well. 'Buyer beware' unfortunately.

    As I said earlier, the rim seems to have failed along the line of some kind of rectangular shape in the carbon - would be interesting to know what that is and why it's there...

    yes - but in this day of the internet confirmation could be gathered by using a video call ... it's not as though Skype is prohibitively expensive - someone from the company can have an initial look and establish if they believe it is a manufacturing fault or something else that needs greater investigation. They could even agree to send new rims and ask for the existing rims to be cut whilst on the call ...
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    gingejp wrote:
    Depends if you value customer service. From the picture, you can clearly see the rim has failed. If posted back, they would only throw in the bin. If you understand the customers quandary that it costs more to post back than a new rim, then they could offer to supply new rim. I'll still have to pay to have wheels built back up again. Posting out new rims and having me get them built up at this end, is the most cost effective solution, that keeps the customer happy and protects arron-bike reputation.

    Who the hell is going to order anything of arron-bike or http://www.d-bike.com after reading this thread?

    Thing is, unless they are going to refund the postage if they agree with you that the rim was faulty, you are definitely down £130 just for them to look at the rims. Therefore, they could charge you £130 for the new rims, and not to send the old ones back, and no-one would be worse off than the initial proposal but at least you'd know that the money you were spending would get you the new pair of rims. And, of course, they could charge you a lot less and still not be out of pocket themselves.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Camcycle1974 wrote:
    My Farsports wheels were £400 including the shipping so 1/4 of the equivalent Mavic rim of a similar spec.

    I have seen Farsports rims, other Chinese rims and I have seen Zipp, Enve and Mavic RIMS. I don't know whether they are worth 4 times the price, but they are significantly better rims. The Zipp 303 FC and the Mavic C 40 in particular are incredibly well built and finished.
    SOME Chinese rims don't even have a homogeneous nipple bed, meaning some hole require long nipples as the bed is thicker, others could do with short ones, basically they would require different spoke lengths for different holes
    left the forum March 2023

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