Disc or not?

Initialised

I did four events on a road bike with discs last year, OK so I didn't examine all the other bikes but I'm fairly sure I was the only one running discs on a roadie for three of them. A mate has and took the same bike to one of them so there were at least two.

I wonder how the spread will be this year.

jonny_trousers

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I am surprised somebody is so last century... did MTBikes look better without discs?

Once you get used to see road bikes with discs, they will become the benchmark... people do like deep carbon rims, which were seen as an abomination and laughed at 20 years ago... get real!

Says the man who thinks anything over 9 speed is a modern extravagance.

ugo.santalucia

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Says the man who thinks anything over 9 speed is a modern extravagance.

If 10 and 11 speed shifters were as good or better than my 9 speed ones I would "upgrade"... but having seen yours from the inside, I can definitely say they are worse... Remember I was on 10 speed 10 years ago when it was the latest craze and I then went back to 9, not to be a weirdo, but because it did work better for me

ugo.santalucia

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Says the man who thinks anything over 9 speed is a modern extravagance.

If 10 and 11 speed shifters were as good or better than my 9 speed ones I would "upgrade"... but having seen yours from the inside, I can definitely say they are worse... Remember I was on 10 speed 10 years ago when it was the latest craze and I then went back to 9, not to be a weirdo, but because it did work better for me

ugo.santalucia

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Says the man who thinks anything over 9 speed is a modern extravagance.

If 10 and 11 speed shifters were as good or better than my 9 speed ones I would "upgrade"... but having seen yours from the inside, I can definitely say they are worse... Remember I was on 10 speed 10 years ago when it was the latest craze and I then went back to 9, not to be a weirdo, but because it did work better for me

veronese68

TGOTB wrote:

DDD has a very good point.

If you want to hang your bike on the wall and look at it, get rim brakes.

If (God forbid) you're more interested in actually riding the dang thing, get whatever will work best for the sort of riding you want to do.

Sheesh!

DDD doesn't need good brakes, I gather he doesn't do hills...or speed.

BelgianBeerGeek

9 speed rocks. Or is adequate, at any rate. Brakes in various incarnations?

I reckon this thread will regress to single-speed fixed gears eventually. Evolution, innit?

roger_merriman

Stevo 666 wrote:

One day we will look back and laugh at how we used to try to stop by squeezing little rubber blocks against the wheel rims. Old mountain bikers look back fondly on the the 'good old days' when braking was a hit and miss job

I am one of those, infact when I was first taking bikes off road you'd struggle to get hold of a MTB used to just take the old ralieghs over the paths/tracks.

Kieran_Burns

I see the disc brake / rim brake debate the same way as I see the disc brake / drum brake move decades back in cars.

Why wear down a complete wheel when you can use a separate and more predictable disc?

ugo.santalucia

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I see the disc brake / rim brake debate the same way as I see the disc brake / drum brake move decades back in cars.

Why wear down a complete wheel when you can use a separate and more predictable disc?

Because people resist change with silly excuses... interestingly, when change comes in the form of something completely pointless, if not a step back, people seem to jump on board big time... look at the sales of frames with press fit bearings... :roll:

greg66_tri_v2.0

Ah, press fit bearings - like Ultra torque, not something I've embraced (except where I've had no choice).

Back to discs v rim brakes, and head vs heart.

I said earlier that heart wins, even though head says for commuting discs are better. Having a mtb with discs, that isn't a completely uninformed view.

However, even head would admit that in the dry rim brakes are up to the job on a roadie 100% of the time. So in some ways even the head will admit that discs are a solution for a problem that exists only some of the time.

How is heart to be won over? I think by a new generation of road frames that have the disc breaking mechanism integrated into the fork and frame so as to be as unobtrusive and aero as possible. Plus some massaged data that claims that there is an overall aero benefit in losing the callipers in favour of an integrated solution.

The Cervelo P5 comes with Magura hydraulic rim brakes. Best or worst of both worlds?

ugo.santalucia

There something to be said about the elegance of a frame with no calipers sticking out of the fork and rear bridge... 8)

greg66_tri_v2.0

How very true.



Bit harder to hide those discs though, eh?

ugo.santalucia

I don't know... don't like these modern bikes... they look like big fat bikes with small tyres... the proportions are wrong. And these huge advertising boards they have as down tubes are just horrible... :?

Initialised

The brake track ruins the look of deep section wheels.

supersonic

Hydro discs, cable discs, cantis/calipers/Vs all are solutions for certain types of riders. I see benefits and drawbacks in them all. Choose what works for you. it is, however, good to see disc brake technology constantly improving.

Initialised

supersonic wrote:

Hydro discs, cable discs, cantis/calipers/Vs all are solutions for certain types of riders. I see benefits and drawbacks in them all. Choose what works for you. it is, however, good to see disc brake technology constantly improving.

It's a far better situation now that road bikes have that choice rather than having a draconian institution holding back technological progress in a safety critical component for decades. You don't see car manufacturers refusing to fit ABS to production cars because it's outlawed in F1.

ugo.santalucia

Initialised wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Hydro discs, cable discs, cantis/calipers/Vs all are solutions for certain types of riders. I see benefits and drawbacks in them all. Choose what works for you. it is, however, good to see disc brake technology constantly improving.

It's a far better situation now that road bikes have that choice rather than having a draconian institution holding back technological progress in a safety critical component for decades. You don't see car manufacturers refusing to fit ABS to production cars because it's outlawed in F1.

People have realised their car is not a F1... most cyclists still think they are "competitive"...

veronese68

So I have discs because I have accepted that I'm old and slow so will never be competitive? Fair enough.

rolf_f

Initialised wrote:

The brake track ruins the look of deep section wheels.

The deep section ruins the look of deep section wheels!

Meanwhile, back to pondering why my effing hydraulic discs on my MTB won't bleed......

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

How very true.

Bit harder to hide those discs though, eh?

Never mind those clumsy disc caliper bodies.

Initialised

Rolf F wrote:

Meanwhile, back to pondering why my effing hydraulic discs on my MTB won't bleed......

Of course you can't bleed the disc, the fluid's in the hose, cylinder and callipers :roll:

rolf_f

Initialised wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Meanwhile, back to pondering why my effing hydraulic discs on my MTB won't bleed......

Of course you can't bleed the disc, the fluid's in the hose, cylinder and callipers :roll:

I must be able to bleed my discs. They are hydraulic discs - they must have fluid in them somewhere.......

Initialised

Rolf F wrote:

Initialised wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Meanwhile, back to pondering why my effing hydraulic discs on my MTB won't bleed......

Of course you can't bleed the disc, the fluid's in the hose, cylinder and callipers :roll:

I must be able to bleed my discs. They are hydraulic discs - they must have fluid in them somewhere.......

Go ride them down an Alpine road while dragging the brake and see if you can make them bleed?

Veronese68 wrote:

So I have discs because I have accepted that I'm old and slow so will never be competitive? Fair enough.

Well that's me rumbled!

The Rookie

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Not sure about Shimano hydraulic levers... I am dubious they might have designed them so that they only work with their calipers and their calipers only fit their own discs, which only fit Shimano hubs... I want to wait until I see there is full compatibility between brands, to avoid ending up in a spiral of pointless upgrades with no real choice.

Not true Ugo, any disc will fit in any calliper, and 6 bolt discs fit any 6 bolt hubs and other companies (DT swiss for example) do centrelock hubs as well....see here http://road.cc/content/review/114970-sh ... ulic-discs

As for weight, my commuter is on discs, is 9.5Kg, it's a 'not light' Carrera Gryphon frame with a near 2Kg MTB wheelset with 26" MTB slicks, so that could easily get sub 8Kg once those parts and the other MTB components are swapped for lighter road stuff.

Interestingly Magura did dropped hydraulic levers a while back for touring use with their rim brakes, but that could be run to disc calipers easily enough, you need separate shifters though.

ugo.santalucia

Now that I have given up riding on the hoods, I guess I could fit some MTB levers on the drop bike fitted vertically... I wonder how easy they will be to use... :roll:

The Rookie

ugo.santalucia wrote:

There something to be said about the elegance of a frame with no calipers sticking out of the fork and rear bridge... 8)

Would look even better if the rear brake was on the chainstay and the front tucked aesthetically into the back of the fork, maybe even having a 'flared fork' to hide it. It will take a while to intergrate more fully.

Jon_1976

I wasn't that impressed with mechanical discs when I had a cross bike. In the dry, I found my road bike with 6800 rim brakes performed better and have adequate amounts of modulation. Obviously, in the wet the discs were better.

I found the mechanicals would constantly start rubbing after 10-15 miles even with regular maintenance/ adjust and precise setup (correctly torqueing bolts, etc). I dont plan on getting another cross bike (or road bike with discs) until hydraulics are more commonplace and affordable. So easy to set up, you can have decent pad to disc clearance, and less faffing about.

meanredspider

Jon_1976 wrote:

I wasn't that impressed with mechanical discs when I had a cross bike. In the dry, I found my road bike with 6800 rim brakes performed better and have adequate amounts of modulation. Obviously, in the wet the discs were better.

I found the mechanicals would constantly start rubbing after 10-15 miles even with regular maintenance/ adjust and precise setup (correctly torqueing bolts, etc). I dont plan on getting another cross bike (or road bike with discs) until hydraulics are more commonplace and affordable. So easy to set up, you can have decent pad to disc clearance, and less faffing about.

Something not right there - I've had none of this in 8-9,000 miles on the Volagi.

itboffin

how about something like this ...?
http://www.bicycledesigner.com/bike-par ... acket.html

I know the front brake is the main stopping force but having one of those and a small disc on the rear with my caliper front that should help me stop shorter.

Initialised

meanredspider wrote:

Jon_1976 wrote:

I wasn't that impressed with mechanical discs when I had a cross bike. In the dry, I found my road bike with 6800 rim brakes performed better and have adequate amounts of modulation. Obviously, in the wet the discs were better.

I found the mechanicals would constantly start rubbing after 10-15 miles even with regular maintenance/ adjust and precise setup (correctly torqueing bolts, etc). I dont plan on getting another cross bike (or road bike with discs) until hydraulics are more commonplace and affordable. So easy to set up, you can have decent pad to disc clearance, and less faffing about.

Something not right there - I've had none of this in 8-9,000 miles on the Volagi.

Did you bed them in properly, I'm not convinced they get that done by the shop, then re-align the callipers, then adjust and re-align every thousand miles or so?