Disc or not?

menthel

The Spyre does look a better solution than the avid. I had nothing but arse ache from the BB7s I had with regards adjustment etc.

meanredspider

TGOTB wrote:

One observation from running hydraulic discs on the CX bike for half a season (and cable-activated discs before then): Once you have them installed, hydraulics are lower maintenance. I was probably replacing brake and rear mech cables monthly once it got muddy, despite using supposedly sealed ones, but once I switched to hydraulics the brake cable maintenance totally disappeared. For this reason, I'd be tempted to steer clear of something like the HyRd, because you're losing out on a lot of the benefits of hydraulics (especially as it sounds like the self-adjust feature on HyRds is a bit limited).

I've been using the HyRd and I think it's awesome. For commuting (in pretty horrid conditions) I've not had cable issues. I did have problems with the adjustor on my rear BB7 seizing up (because I almost never use the brake so almost never adjust it). I think if you've got discs already and want to upgrade, HyRd is a great way to go.

timothyw

I ought add that I had to replace my rear BB5 as the inboard adjuster had seized, and I suspect that this is a risk with any cable disc with a static pad (so not dual piston designs such as Spyre & Hy/Rd).

rower63

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... I hated the weary bearings of Ultra Torque ...

A little OT but: I have 2 bikes with Ultra Torque (Chorus), and each one after around 6,000km, were exhibiting signs of shot BB bearings, me not impressed. I looked into the whole bearing topic and found that bearings are very much "you get what you pay for". I eventually ordered some"ceramic hybrid" "yellow seal" grade 5 bearings from Boca Bearing Company, USD80 per pair of Ultra Torque-fit, plus a bit of customs. On dis-assembling the original Campag-supplied bearings, they were indeed in a terrible state, but then a lot of my riding is in gritty, wet weather, so perhaps fair enough?
Ugo just built me a wheel, and in the process of changing chain and fitting cassette I've had an opportunity to see the progress of these Boca bearings one year on, now with about 10,000km on them. They are still perfectly smooth. I checked the other bike, and same story, no apparent bearing degradation at all after far more km than it took the OEM ones to get completely worn out.
Message: Campag's OEM bearings, for Chorus at least, are very low quality, and actually a disgrace.

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

The Spyre does look a better solution than the avid. I had nothing but ars* ache from the BB7s I had with regards adjustment etc.

I wouldn't call turning a ratchet a few degrees every other week as a amjor ache... I have had BB7 and really it's a case of adjusting them when the lever throw is excessive... it takes what, 30 seconds?

alan_sherman

What puts me off is the noise from pads skimming discs, or when gravel gets in there. On the MTB I live with it but I like my road bike to be silent!

roger_merriman

alan sherman wrote:

What puts me off is the noise from pads skimming discs, or when gravel gets in there. On the MTB I live with it but I like my road bike to be silent!

my wifes hybrid does that as does my MTBs which drives her nuts.

anonymousblackfg

I have them on my fixie for commuting, so much better, also consider the muck from rim brakes are a real faff. I would love to replace the winter bike for one with discs when it finally falls to pieces. One day the canyon I am sure will be replaced with a disc equipped 6.8kg machine but a few more years development is needed before we're quite there...

tgotb

anonymousblackfg wrote:

I have them on my fixie for commuting, so much better, also consider the muck from rim brakes are a real faff. I would love to replace the winter bike for one with discs when it finally falls to pieces. One day the canyon I am sure will be replaced with a disc equipped 6.8kg machine but a few more years development is needed before we're quite there...

Can't be that far off; my CX bike is currently about 7.5kg, and that includes Clement PDX clinchers at 700g a pair and 420g of M520 pedals. With the Speedplays and GP4000s off my road bike it'd be knocking on the door of 7kg.

Having gone from Avid BB7s -> TRP Spyres -> TRP Parabox, my experience was that the Sypres are a lot easier to live with than the BB7s, especially keeping adjusted and changing the pads. The Parabox is quite a bit easier again (literally the only thing you ever have to do is change the pads) but it's a right palaver to set up in the first place.

menthel

ugo.santalucia wrote:

menthel wrote:

The Spyre does look a better solution than the avid. I had nothing but ars* ache from the BB7s I had with regards adjustment etc.

I wouldn't call turning a ratchet a few degrees every other week as a amjor ache... I have had BB7 and really it's a case of adjusting them when the lever throw is excessive... it takes what, 30 seconds?

If mine had worked like that I would have been happy! The premise was fine but the execution on the set I had left something to be desired.

greg66_tri_v2.0

For a commuting road bike, every fibre of your head will say "discs".

Heart will say "Ugly. Want callipers".

Heart wins. That's life.

rower63 wrote:

A little OT but: I have 2 bikes with Ultra Torque (Chorus), and each one after around 6,000km, were exhibiting signs of shot BB bearings, me not impressed. I looked into the whole bearing topic and found that bearings are very much "you get what you pay for". I eventually ordered some"ceramic hybrid" "yellow seal" grade 5 bearings from Boca Bearing Company, USD80 per pair of Ultra Torque-fit, plus a bit of customs. On dis-assembling the original Campag-supplied bearings, they were indeed in a terrible state, but then a lot of my riding is in gritty, wet weather, so perhaps fair enough?
Ugo just built me a wheel, and in the process of changing chain and fitting cassette I've had an opportunity to see the progress of these Boca bearings one year on, now with about 10,000km on them. They are still perfectly smooth. I checked the other bike, and same story, no apparent bearing degradation at all after far more km than it took the OEM ones to get completely worn out.
Message: Campag's OEM bearings, for Chorus at least, are very low quality, and actually a disgrace.

I used to chew through square taper Veloce BBs like the bearings were made of rolled up bogies. Switched to square taper Chorus and never looked back. Never progressed to UT though. SRAM ceramics are pretty good, IME.

Campy bearings can certainly be variable.

Kieran_Burns

Use dics? Well whenever it's wet my mate can't cycle with me, as whenever I brake he just goes sailing past with a "aaaaaaaaAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGggggggggghhhhhhhhhh............" sound

veronese68

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

For a commuting road bike, every fibre of your head will say "discs".

Heart will say "Ugly. Want callipers".

Heart wins. That's life

Are you trying to take Boff's crown of biggest tart on BR?
Or is it a tiara?

rolf_f

As I see it, disc brakes are better than calipers when they are on but calipers are better than discs when they are off!

Agent57

essex-commuter wrote:

So, if you were building a new drop bar bike for commuting would you definitely go down the disc route or are you more than happy to use rim brakes?

I'd definitely probably want discs. At least, if I went with rim brakes, they would have to be standard brakes, not the God-awful V-brakes I have that are utter crap with STI levers.

The thing that puts me off is the idea that mechanical discs aren't that much better than decent side-pulls, and hydraulic discs aren't really available in my price range.

supersonic

I have discs on some bikes, rim brakes on others. Only lately have discs become good enough for me to consider, and even then, on my road machine, (though are Vs) they are plenty good enough.

Stevo_666

I've been commuting a Boardman with hydraulic discs since late 2009 and for me it's absolutely the right way to go. Reliability, fit and forget, stopping in the wet, modulation, no wheel wear etc etc. I'm still on the original rims, discs and brake fluid FCS

Unless you're a weight weenie which should not be a top priority for commuting, the only downside I can see for the OP is that drop bar hydraulics are still quite pricey (my bike a flat bar jobbie so just uses mountain bike brakes). but that will change as the technology filters down to the cheaper groupsets.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Veronese68 wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

For a commuting road bike, every fibre of your head will say "discs".

Heart will say "Ugly. Want callipers".

Heart wins. That's life

Are you trying to take Boff's crown of biggest tart on BR?
Or is it a tiara?

Take his crown?

He's not fit to carry the train of my dress!

He is nothing but a lady(boy)-in-waiting.

itboffin

You're just making matters worse for yourself Mr 66

I will be taking photos of the whole horrific LBL mess, you'd had better not lose that scalp yet again, its getting to be quite a habit now.

What was it 2-3 hours ...?

jonny_trousers

When quality road bike hydraulic disc set-ups are available at a reasonable price. Until then, rim brakes suit my needs just fine.

ugo.santalucia

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

When quality road bike hydraulic disc set-ups are available at a reasonable price. Until then, rim brakes suit my needs just fine.

People seem to think hydraulics will do miracles. IME a mechanical system is more than adequate and is easier to service. Hydraulics have a couple of interesting features, like the alignment of the pads, the alleged better modulation and increased force applied to the pads per froce applied to the lever, but you don't need any of that

1) Pads adjustment is a weekly or fortnightly activity, just like pumping up your tyres, it only requires a few seconds
2) I find modulation on mechanical discs excellent
3) The force applied with the cable is already pretty good, making it better means also swapping to bigger tyres with more grip.

What is really needed is a road lever with better leverage, which pulls more cable!

drlodge

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What is really needed is a road lever with better leverage, which pulls more cable!

Er, wouldn't a road lever with more leverage actually pull less cable but with a greater force?

tgotb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

1) Pads adjustment is a weekly or fortnightly activity, just like pumping up your tyres, it only requires a few seconds

Unless you're riding in conditions where the pads wear down very quickly. For instance, I did a cross race last year with cable brakes, where the brakes went from perfectly adjusted to completely unusable in less than half an hour; I ended up braking with my heels. Once I switched to hydraulics that issue went away.

Cables deteriorate as they get contaminated, whereas hydraulics don't have that issue. How many times have you replaced a cable and noticed how much better the brakes were? With hydraulics that goes away, they always perform like new.

ugo.santalucia

drlodge wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

What is really needed is a road lever with better leverage, which pulls more cable!

Er, wouldn't a road lever with more leverage actually pull less cable but with a greater force?

I said better, not more...

Stevo_666

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Heart will say "Ugly. Want callipers".

Heart wins. That's life.

Not for me - discs on road bikes look rather cool - IMO

meanredspider

TGOTB wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

1) Pads adjustment is a weekly or fortnightly activity, just like pumping up your tyres, it only requires a few seconds

Unless you're riding in conditions where the pads wear down very quickly. For instance, I did a cross race last year with cable brakes, where the brakes went from perfectly adjusted to completely unusable in less than half an hour; I ended up braking with my heels. Once I switched to hydraulics that issue went away.

Cables deteriorate as they get contaminated, whereas hydraulics don't have that issue. How many times have you replaced a cable and noticed how much better the brakes were? With hydraulics that goes away, they always perform like new.

Yeah but Cross is nearer to MTB than commuting so, for this discussion, is a bit irrelevant. A few laps of the Puffer course will wipe out a set of MTB pads. The same pads will last me all winter on the MTB for commuting.

rubertoe

Stevo 666 wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Heart will say "Ugly. Want callipers".

Heart wins. That's life.

Not for me - discs on road bikes look rather cool - IMO

and one for Greg

ugo.santalucia

TGOTB wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

1) Pads adjustment is a weekly or fortnightly activity, just like pumping up your tyres, it only requires a few seconds

Unless you're riding in conditions where the pads wear down very quickly. For instance, I did a cross race last year with cable brakes, where the brakes went from perfectly adjusted to completely unusable in less than half an hour; I ended up braking with my heels. Once I switched to hydraulics that issue went away.

Cables deteriorate as they get contaminated, whereas hydraulics don't have that issue. How many times have you replaced a cable and noticed how much better the brakes were? With hydraulics that goes away, they always perform like new.

I know... but we have to be honest here... look at the cyclocross section of this forum... there is you and another guy... the rest of the world buy cross bikes to show them on the forum and to ride them through the local woods when it's not too muddy and never race them... Nys and Stybar use cantis and so should you...

veronese68

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I know... but we have to be honest here... look at the cyclocross section of this forum... there is you and another guy... the rest of the world buy cross bikes to show them on the forum and to ride them through the local woods when it's not too muddy and never race them... Nys and Stybar use cantis and so should you...

:oops:
Talking of which I should get out for another ride with you, assuming my legs and lungs can stand it.

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I know... but we have to be honest here... look at the cyclocross section of this forum... there is you and another guy... the rest of the world buy cross bikes to show them on the forum and to ride them through the local woods when it's not too muddy and never race them... Nys and Stybar use cantis and so should you...

You don't want to look at mine - other than when it's got Christmas lights on - it's nothing special. I bought it because I wanted a "do it all" bike with drop bars - and that's exactly what it is ...