Carlton Kirby

poweredbyidris

redvision wrote:

Give the guy a break. He's a commentator and i for one like his enthusiasm and excitement.

All this criticism is uncalled for. He may make mistakes, everyone does though. He is a commentator and has to cover a range of sports. This means he isnt always 100% up to date or informed of everything in the pro tour, that's why he has a co-commentator.

At the end of the day if you don't like his commentary turn the volume off or watch through the eurosport app where there is usually race coverage without commentary.

I'd happily forgive mistakes, but it's the other stuff that forms my opinion that he's stealing a salary at my expense. Making up stories about riders to fit his narrative, the imagined conversations that he then chuckles at, 'G', 'Froomey', 'Mr Bojangles', the ham-fisted puns, the endlessly repeated cliches, his inability to understand that cameras have zoom lenses...

He practically cows his co-commentator into silence - it's amazing how much more vocal Kelly is when Hatch is the main commentator.

Alejandrosdog

PoweredByIdris wrote:

redvision wrote:

Give the guy a break. He's a commentator and i for one like his enthusiasm and excitement.

All this criticism is uncalled for. He may make mistakes, everyone does though. He is a commentator and has to cover a range of sports. This means he isnt always 100% up to date or informed of everything in the pro tour, that's why he has a co-commentator.

At the end of the day if you don't like his commentary turn the volume off or watch through the eurosport app where there is usually race coverage without commentary.

I'd happily forgive mistakes, but it's the other stuff that forms my opinion that he's stealing a salary at my expense. Making up stories about riders to fit his narrative, the imagined conversations that he then chuckles at, 'G', 'Froomey', 'Mr Bojangles', the ham-fisted puns, the endlessly repeated cliches, his inability to understand that cameras have zoom lenses...

He practically cows his co-commentator into silence - it's amazing how much more vocal Kelly is when Hatch is the main commentator.

Get over yourself.

poweredbyidris

Alejandrosdog wrote:

PoweredByIdris wrote:

redvision wrote:

Give the guy a break. He's a commentator and i for one like his enthusiasm and excitement.

All this criticism is uncalled for. He may make mistakes, everyone does though. He is a commentator and has to cover a range of sports. This means he isnt always 100% up to date or informed of everything in the pro tour, that's why he has a co-commentator.

At the end of the day if you don't like his commentary turn the volume off or watch through the eurosport app where there is usually race coverage without commentary.

I'd happily forgive mistakes, but it's the other stuff that forms my opinion that he's stealing a salary at my expense. Making up stories about riders to fit his narrative, the imagined conversations that he then chuckles at, 'G', 'Froomey', 'Mr Bojangles', the ham-fisted puns, the endlessly repeated cliches, his inability to understand that cameras have zoom lenses...

He practically cows his co-commentator into silence - it's amazing how much more vocal Kelly is when Hatch is the main commentator.

Get over yourself.

Amazed you managed to drag yourself away from pre-ordering his book to write that

blazing_saddles

PoweredByIdris wrote:

redvision wrote:

Give the guy a break. He's a commentator and i for one like his enthusiasm and excitement.

All this criticism is uncalled for. He may make mistakes, everyone does though. He is a commentator and has to cover a range of sports. This means he isnt always 100% up to date or informed of everything in the pro tour, that's why he has a co-commentator.

At the end of the day if you don't like his commentary turn the volume off or watch through the eurosport app where there is usually race coverage without commentary.

I'd happily forgive mistakes, but it's the other stuff that forms my opinion that he's stealing a salary at my expense. Making up stories about riders to fit his narrative, the imagined conversations that he then chuckles at, 'G', 'Froomey', 'Mr Bojangles', the ham-fisted puns, the endlessly repeated cliches, his inability to understand that cameras have zoom lenses...

He practically cows his co-commentator into silence - it's amazing how much more vocal Kelly is when Hatch is the main commentator.

You missed out what we will get today, as with every other sodding day: a seemingly endless list of contenders for the stage, to be repeated whenever there is a gap in the other stuff you mention.
At least I can avoid him for the classics and give thanks for Sporza. I might only understand every fifth word or so, but they still make things more informative and well..............watchable.

RichN95.

Delete

m.r.m.

He is utterly horrible in every way. Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on.

It seems rather plausible, that a better person would aptly fill his role at Eurosport if given the opportunity.

Alejandrosdog

M.R.M. wrote:

He is utterly horrible in every way. Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on.

It seems rather plausible, that a better person would aptly fill his role at Eurosport if given the opportunity.

Because hes not that bad. and in any case i despise internet mob culture and bullying which is whats happening here.

Also phrases like Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on. is mob culture

blazing_saddles

Alejandrosdog wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

He is utterly horrible in every way. Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on.

It seems rather plausible, that a better person would aptly fill his role at Eurosport if given the opportunity.

Because hes not that bad. and in any case i despise internet mob culture and bullying which is whats happening here.

Also phrases like Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on. is mob culture

You will be happy to know I was forced to take your advice and mute today's finish. Just couldn't cope with the hysteria overload.

Within 10 minutes of today's start the...............er............entertainment comprised of the Alps having 6000 metre climbs and a retelling of how a local chef shot, skinned and cooked rabbit casserole for his lunch, all while he waited.
No bullsh*t there then.

bobmcstuff

Alejandrosdog wrote:

M.R.M. wrote:

He is utterly horrible in every way. Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on.

It seems rather plausible, that a better person would aptly fill his role at Eurosport if given the opportunity.

Because hes not that bad. and in any case i despise internet mob culture and bullying which is whats happening here.

Also phrases like Don't understand why anyone would pick defending him to be the hill they want to die on. is mob culture

No it isn't, it's expressing confusion as to why anyone likes his commentary that much.

Abusing him on Twitter probably counts as bullying, and is not very tasteful.

awavey

Blazing Saddles wrote:

redvision wrote:

Give the guy a break. He's a commentator and i for one like his enthusiasm and excitement.


At the end of the day if you don't like his commentary turn the volume off or watch through the eurosport app where there is usually race coverage without commentary.

Imagine telling football fans paying to watch their team to mute the sound....

weirdly I think alot do the days of Motty and Barry Davies style commentary are long gone, I think increasingly good tv commentating is becoming a lost art replaced with people whose style is similar to Kirbys, every instant has to be described as THE moment with half an eye or ear I guess to featuring in some eternal 5second rolling promo clip,like Martin Tylers Ageuro, and to maintain a perma state of excitement hype as they fear viewers will get bored.

been watching alot of ESPN sports coverage of late and its notable actually how low key American commentators, yes really, feel in comparison,they actually do seem to describe the action, things you might miss, add the insight and so on, and only really over react when its necessary to

vinnymarsden

The problem as I see it is this.... I don’t see a whole raft of other people lining up to take his place , do you?
I know there are a few other cycling commentators, but they are contracted to other channels, and I assume the budget to headhunt new talent isn’t vast, hence Eurosport have got Carlton, therefore, so have we, my thought for what it’s worth.... the alternative would be, if you don’t like him that much then don’t watch.. I just watch for the cycling and mute him out when he’s on one . It is easy.

rick_chasey

VinnyMarsden wrote:

The problem as I see it is this.... I don’t see a whole raft of other people lining up to take his place , do you?
I know there are a few other cycling commentators, but they are contracted to other channels, and I assume the budget to headhunt new talent isn’t vast, hence Eurosport have got Carlton, therefore, so have we, my thought for what it’s worth.... the alternative would be, if you don’t like him that much then don’t watch.. I just watch for the cycling and mute him out when he’s on one . It is easy.

Rob will do it

takethehighroad

VinnyMarsden wrote:

The problem as I see it is this.... I don’t see a whole raft of other people lining up to take his place , do you?
I know there are a few other cycling commentators, but they are contracted to other channels, and I assume the budget to headhunt new talent isn’t vast, hence Eurosport have got Carlton, therefore, so have we, my thought for what it’s worth.... the alternative would be, if you don’t like him that much then don’t watch.. I just watch for the cycling and mute him out when he’s on one . It is easy.

I watch cycling to enjoy the cycling. My enjoyment is enhanced by good commentary, such as that provided by Rob Hatch and Sean Kelly on Saturday. Or Rob Hatch and Brian Smith yesterday. Or Declan Quigley and Magnus Backstedt. Or Matt Stephens...

daniel_b

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

VinnyMarsden wrote:

The problem as I see it is this.... I don’t see a whole raft of other people lining up to take his place , do you?
I know there are a few other cycling commentators, but they are contracted to other channels, and I assume the budget to headhunt new talent isn’t vast, hence Eurosport have got Carlton, therefore, so have we, my thought for what it’s worth.... the alternative would be, if you don’t like him that much then don’t watch.. I just watch for the cycling and mute him out when he’s on one . It is easy.

I watch cycling to enjoy the cycling. My enjoyment is enhanced by good commentary, such as that provided by Rob Hatch and Sean Kelly on Saturday. Or Rob Hatch and Brian Smith yesterday. Or Declan Quigley and Magnus Backstedt. Or Matt Stephens...

I agree with a bulk of that, Hatch is probably my favourite commentator, with (for me) the right blend of enthusiasm and knowledge.
Anthony McCrossan through no fault of his own, irks me nearly as much as Kirby, but purely because his tone of voice is like nails down a chalkboard for me.

Magnus and Matt are coming on a treat, I think they have nearly enough quality commentators to not require Kirby. Kelly and Smith are also great contributors imho.

As an aside, I also like Millar, Boulting and Boardman for their commentary, though I appreciate on other channels.

Alejandrosdog

Daniel B wrote:

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

VinnyMarsden wrote:

The problem as I see it is this.... I don’t see a whole raft of other people lining up to take his place , do you?
I know there are a few other cycling commentators, but they are contracted to other channels, and I assume the budget to headhunt new talent isn’t vast, hence Eurosport have got Carlton, therefore, so have we, my thought for what it’s worth.... the alternative would be, if you don’t like him that much then don’t watch.. I just watch for the cycling and mute him out when he’s on one . It is easy.

I watch cycling to enjoy the cycling. My enjoyment is enhanced by good commentary, such as that provided by Rob Hatch and Sean Kelly on Saturday. Or Rob Hatch and Brian Smith yesterday. Or Declan Quigley and Magnus Backstedt. Or Matt Stephens...

I agree with a bulk of that, Hatch is probably my favourite commentator, with (for me) the right blend of enthusiasm and knowledge.
Anthony McCrossan through no fault of his own, irks me nearly as much as Kirby, but purely because his tone of voice is like nails down a chalkboard for me.

Magnus and Matt are coming on a treat, I think they have nearly enough quality commentators to not require Kirby. Kelly and Smith are also great contributors imho.

As an aside, I also like Millar, Boulting and Boardman for their commentary, though I appreciate on other channels.

Agree with all of that except Millar. He is poisoned for me by the drugs thing. pretending he only kept a syringe full of epo in his fridge to remind himself not to do it..... I dont believe he's anymore reformed than me. Id rather have a hands up approach or avoid the topic completely.

Boardman I do like to listen to, not least because his perspectives at the top of the sport go beyond being a rider. He's also got broader cycling interests. Top bloke

daniel_b

I am in the same camp as you, as in Millar's past does not sit easy with me, but on this occasion I was merely giving my opinion of his commentating insight.

Boardman is a legend, he just seems such a down to earth bloke, with a razor sharp mind (and wit) and a genuine desire to do good.
Shame he has left the TDF coverage - not sure who they will get into replace him, if they go for Hayles............
:roll:

kingstongraham

Millar has good insight but he always talks about cycling and tactics and doesn't ever shut up. Hours of that is boring. Sometimes when nothing's really changing, just go a bit Richie Benaud please.

Alejandrosdog

KingstonGraham wrote:

Millar has good insight but he always talks about cycling and tactics and doesn't ever shut up. Hours of that is boring. Sometimes when nothing's really changing, just go a bit Richie Benaud please.

I think youve hit the nail on the head right there, hours of anything or anyone is boring. Kirbys audience is far broader than over obsessing bike geeks. sometimes i wonder if people actually ride their bikes

bobmcstuff

It would be OK if Kirby's non cycling related chat added something - like he described the region or something. Instead he tells dubious anecdotes and makes terrible jokes which he then laughs at. It doesn't add anything and it's just annoying.

Occasionally he reads the stuff about whatever chateau they are going past as if it is some kind of private joke to himself.

I might have to stay off this thread because thinking about how bad he is in more detail is going to make him even more annoying for me.

rick_chasey

KingstonGraham wrote:

Millar has good insight but he always talks about cycling and tactics and doesn't ever shut up. Hours of that is boring..

Get out

kingstongraham

Rick Chasey wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Millar has good insight but he always talks about cycling and tactics and doesn't ever shut up. Hours of that is boring..

Get out

However... I can't get enough of the Sean Kelly good stuff.

blazing_saddles

Alejandrosdog wrote:

Agree with all of that except Millar. He is poisoned for me by the drugs thing. pretending he only kept a syringe full of epo in his fridge to remind himself not to do it..... I dont believe he's anymore reformed than me. Id rather have a hands up approach or avoid the topic completely.

Talking about reformation and pretence, given you love for Valverde, this just doesn't compute for me.
Besides which, what he got up to back in the good old days has sod all to do with how good he is at commentating, today.

squired

For me, the ideal commentator needs to tick a few specific boxes:

- Easy on the ear voice
- Knowledge of the sport (this includes reading news articles on the day of the race)
- Able to provide interesting insights beyond the actual race during dull spells
- Able to provide interesting insights relating to the race during dull spells
- Able to extract the best out of his/her co-commentator
- Identification of riders (one of the most important skills)
- Makes the commentary about the race rather than about them

Dear Carlton fails on many of the above points. It is clear for example with some of the other commentators that they've been scouring all of the usual outlets (like cyclingnews.com) before coverage starts, whereas Carlton seems to have no clue about any news from that day. I know he is long gone now, but David Harmon was one of the best Eurosport ever had. As a co-commentator I really like Brian Smith (in terms of current Eurosport staff).

carbonclem

Is there a 'wider' audience on Eurosport that needs considering? I'd have thought anyone who watching cycle races on there is a pretty niche and informed audience. Being hosted by a light entertainment court jester type just isn't required. CK stands out like a sore thumb i the team they have, he's the only one there as a wider career option and it shoes, badly. The only comparable cycling presenter on that score is Ned Boulting, who does seem to have made significant progress in his niche. And Road Book promotion aside, is ok. People need to get over the Millar doping thing though.

carbonclem

Deleted - triple posted!

carbonclem

...

blazing_saddles

Straight off the bat today, we've had the Yates bros riding for Deceuninck - Quick Step. :oops:

kingstongraham

CarbonClem wrote:

People need to get over the Millar doping thing though.

No ta.

sherer

CarbonClem wrote:

Is there a 'wider' audience on Eurosport that needs considering? I'd have thought anyone who watching cycle races on there is a pretty niche and informed audience. Being hosted by a light entertainment court jester type just isn't required. CK stands out like a sore thumb i the team they have, he's the only one there as a wider career option and it shoes, badly. The only comparable cycling presenter on that score is Ned Boulting, who does seem to have made significant progress in his niche. And Road Book promotion aside, is ok. People need to get over the Millar doping thing though.

people watch Le Tour for the scenery \ tourist stuff they show off camera not everyone views it for the race.
I find him more hit than miss and he seems to think everything he reads on twitter is true.
His excitement at the end of a race can help at times but sometimes he gets over excited .. been instances where Sagan has lead out Bennett and he's got really confused over whats going on.. or always assumes rider x will be in the break that day and then assume its him.

He's not perfect but then few commentators are

sherer

CarbonClem wrote:

Is there a 'wider' audience on Eurosport that needs considering? I'd have thought anyone who watching cycle races on there is a pretty niche and informed audience. Being hosted by a light entertainment court jester type just isn't required. CK stands out like a sore thumb i the team they have, he's the only one there as a wider career option and it shoes, badly. The only comparable cycling presenter on that score is Ned Boulting, who does seem to have made significant progress in his niche. And Road Book promotion aside, is ok. People need to get over the Millar doping thing though.

people watch Le Tour for the scenery \ tourist stuff they show off camera not everyone views it for the race.
I find him more hit than miss and he seems to think everything he reads on twitter is true.
His excitement at the end of a race can help at times but sometimes he gets over excited .. been instances where Sagan has lead out Bennett and he's got really confused over whats going on.. or always assumes rider x will be in the break that day and then assume its him.

He's not perfect but then few commentators are